User talk:Harry Wood

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Contents

Welcome - GPS Unit

Welcome to OSM! You should get yourself a GPS receiver. In theory Open Street Map allows a division of labour, where some people gather GPS tracks and others draw maps from them, or develop the mapping data further in other ways. But in practice you can only understand the system if you master the entire value chain. Make sure you get one from which you can download the tracklog file (most automobile models don't seem to offer this feature) and make sure you get the PC cable (serial or USB) included in the price (can be expensive as an accessory). --LA2 19:06, 30 Jan 2006 (GMT)

Help Page

Nice work on the help page. Perhaps you could take a look at some of the other areas, they sure could do with some reorganisation and simplification. -- Blackadder 09:17, 23 Feb 2006 (UTC)

PD-user template

Hi Harry, I noted your clarification on the PD-user template. Though I do see your point...

  • A long paragraph sits very uneasily in the embedded box style.
  • It is already possible to determine sole authorship for software (via trac's revisions system), so it's not true to say that it's only a gesture.
  • Making your own contributions PD doesn't necessarily mean that you support the whole of OSM going PD, as the 'clarification' implies.
  • It's a little ethically dubious to change such a declaration after several people have already signed up to it. They may not agree with the wording of your clarification. (This is, of course, one of the 'fun' things about wikis!)
  • Given that the licence debate can get heated, it's probably not politic to add interpretations to other people's views. (You could, of course, always set up a PD-user-with-clarification category.)

Consequently I've reverted it. If you think it's still necessary, I'd suggest we work together on adding an wiki.osm.org page about Public domain, in place of the Wikipedia link. (In turn, this would probably link to the WP page.)
cheers
Richard 12:33, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Fair enough Richard. I think a clarification is needed on there, but you're right it should probably be discussed first. Template talk:PD-user would be the place to do so I guess -- Harry Wood 12:54, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

sysop

done! use wisely. :) Morwen 12:25, 29 June 2007 (BST)


Cleanup

Three cheers for all the cleanup stuff you're doing - it's making things much clearer. Could I add About to your list? It's very out of date.

Might be good to have more prominent links to the Foundation page, too (see recent debate on talk list). --Richard 09:10, 2 July 2007 (BST)

Hmm yeah some of those About page links are a bit odd. I had been fiddling there to try and sort out the translation links, but yes the english version really isn't that great is it? I will attack it at some point -- Harry Wood 12:55, 2 July 2007 (BST)

Hello Harry
At the Category:Labelled_for_deletion page are 218 pages linked, some labbeled by me. Is it possible to delete some of these in the next time. After that it is easier to find pages which should deleted. Thanks, Markus --Uboot 15:15, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Osmosis

Hi Harry, thanks for the new Osmosis page. It's been on my TODO list for a while :-) Ideally I should add everything on my own wiki to this page, I only put it on mine because I knew how to use it.

The tool is pretty rough around the edges at the moment, if I can get a couple of nights on it I should be able to tidy it up a bit.

At that point I should add a couple of links from other pages on the wiki ...

PS. Haven't added one of these talk messages before, hopefully I get it right :-)

Cheers, Brett 14:50, 11 July 2007 (AEST)

São Paulo

Hi Harry, glad to know you're coming here (business or vacation?). I bought a GPS a few months ago and since then I had focused on mapping the longest highways by car and my neighborhood by motorbike taking pictures of street signs. Right now it seems that I am the only OSM user in this 14 million city and I'll be glad to welcome you here. Please drop me a note with further details (claudomiro|gmail^com) Claudomiro 23:15, 16 August 2007 (BST)

Thanks for the Welcome

Hi Harry, Thanks for the welcome. I have started to map Islamabad and Rawalpindi. I live in Rawalpindi and work in Islamabad. Will contribute more as I collect more traces and master JOSM.

Sharjeel Aziz 23:06, 29 August 2007 (PKST)

Canberra Animation

Hi Harry, I'm glad you found my Canberra OSM progress animation, and am delighted you consider it worth nominating as a featured image. I plan to continue adding frames to it, but the increasing coverage is beginning to stretch the capabilities of my RAM! Even if I continue to add weekly frames, it would be great to have it as a feature image. Latch 01:31, 4 September 2007 (BST)

YWMS plugin

Hi Harry, could you perhaps write an install guide for the YWMS plugin in JOSM? I think the page JOSM/Plugins/YWMS is not up to date. There is no mentioning how to install on a Windows machine. After install, there were some things mentioned on the preferences page of the Yahoo plugin which I could not find in Firefox. E.g. 1. How to create a Firefox profile. 2. how to change the about:config, especially browser.dom.window.dump. (I managed to open the about:config, but in the list browser.dom... was missing).

You mentioned on your page that you use the plugin, so I thought perhaps it would be possible for you to update the page. I noticed that you are often updating the wiki. I think it would be helpful if more people could use this plugin. Longbow4u 16:56, 15 October 2007 (BST)

"preferences page of the Yahoo plugin" This means within JOSM. Not within firefox. Once both plugins are activated (after restarting JOSM) you should be able to go back to the JOSM preferences and see a new tab. The yahoo tab. You have to go here to fill in the path to firefox, and give it a name for a new profile (name it anything you like e.g. josmprofile) ...and click create. The rest works like magic.... hopefully.
Ok I had a stab at making the installation steps clearer on the YWMS page, but actually with the josm-latest I'm finding I'm not able to install the plugin myself (on my machine at work here). I can't see the WMS plugin, and YWMS wont activate. Maybe the latest JOSM has introduced incompatibilities. ...but I'll try again from home because this machine can be a bit kooky.
-- Harry Wood 18:13, 15 October 2007 (BST)
Thank you, now I could install it. I had some minor problems which I overcame. The name of the profile in the JOSM preferences had to be identical with the new profile in Firefox. After applying the changes and restarting Firefox, I had a blank new Firefox interface with all my bookmarks gone (Firefox started with the new profile). After having a look in Google, I found how to start the profile manager of Firefox (Windows Start menu -> Ausführen (execute?) typing "firefox.exe -P" and changing back to "default"). Then my bookmarks came back, and YWMS still worked in JOSM. Longbow4u 19:17, 15 October 2007 (BST)

OS WMS

Hi, I saw you talking about the OS WMS services last night in #osm, I've done some experiments with it in openlayers already and got something working.

Their WMS server seems quite limited, only providing output as the OS projection, a fixed tilesize (which changes depending on zoomlevel as well!).

My work so far is at [1] I also hope to get around to writing my findings sometime..

--Edgemaster 09:48, 22 October 2007 (BST)

Looks great! I didn't realise ordnance survey had a public WMS server actually. The WMS Server you're pointing at is here: explore.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/OSMapAPIWebApp/osmapapiwms but where is it described on the OS website? That's the first time I've seen a full screen OS map on the web. Are you really allowed to present them like that? By the way, internet explorer 7 covers up the copyright notice (firefox does the nice transparent strip at the bottom)
Here at the council office I'm working at, we have something called "PlanAccess". I've managed to hook OpenLayers into the WMS source which this provides. This seems to be doing on-the-fly rendering of very detailed ordnance survey data (Is it called "MasterMap" when you can see the building outlines and everything?) So this looks great.
I was hoping to sneak in openstreetmap as an optional layer, more as an advert for OSM than anything they would actually find useful (given the detail that PlanAccess provides) Unfortunately Christopher Schmidt was explaining that OpenLayers wont allow me to simply reference the rendered tiles from OSM servers, becuase they're using a different projection. I'm not actually sure what projection it is, but safe to say it aint the same as OSM's.
He suggested re-rendering OSM data with a matching projection, but this means setting up python-mapnik-tilechache, and some facility for synching & re-rendering as the OSM data improves. All a bit tricky. Actually anything requiring server hardware and running applications, is no longer a sneaky thing I can put in place without anyone noticing... well probably not. I could try -- Harry Wood 10:57, 22 October 2007 (BST)
Legally, it's probably a very black area. Their ToS forbids hyperlinking to any part of their site. Ripping the images from their servers probably contradicts their ToS as well as copyright. (Although I do attribute it to them). Conflicting projections are annoying, I'd have wanted to slip OSM into my project that uses that OS 50k map. --Edgemaster 20:07, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Google SOC

Thanks for the reminder Harry. I am still interested. And now is the right time to plan. I have some contacts at Google we should follow up with to make sure OSM is signed up.

Wikitravel

Thanks for your note! I'm blown away by how much OSM has progressed since I last took a look, and I'm convinced the future of Wikitravel mapping will be with OSM. I'm now heading Wikitravel's print spinoff Wikitravel Press and trying to figure out how to export OSM data via Osmarender, please do chip in at Talk:Osmarender if you have any ideas. I've also signed up on MediaWiki extension. Jpatokal 14:14, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Source for Components.png

Hi Harry, i'm interested in translating the Component Overview you created into german, so i would be glad if you could send me the SVG source for the Components Diagram (Components.png). My mail address is florian <dot> schmitt <at> gmx <dot> net. --Florianschmitt 14:04, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Planet diff description

Harry, sorry for delay, I will add some clarification on how the planet diffs work as per your request on my talk page, just been distracted by other things. Will try to get it done over next day or two. I've been thinking about doing it as a separate page dedicated to daily diffs. --Brett 12:22, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Internationalization of the map features page

Hi Harry, as you are one of the persons who tries to keep the wiki a bit less chaotic, I would appreciate if you could have a look on my proposal for the "map features" page internationalization here Talk:Map_Features and provide some comments. I know that using templates has pros and cons but at least, it's the best mean I see at the moment to create an up-to-date page for all languages. Or you may have other suggestions/ideas/tools which could help the translators. -Pieren 15:05, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Captcha-like thing

Dear Mr Wiki... is it possible to stop the annoying "tell us what 37+2 is" when you've added a link to openstreetmap.org? I can understand its purpose in preventing links to spammy sites, but osm.org surely isn't one of them... --Richard 10:31, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Done! (I think) I tested in Sandbox and I think it's working better now
I was expecting the answer to be "No because I'm not a System Administrator", but I thought I'd investigate and figure out exactly what we need to ask them to do, and it turns out that I could fix it (as a sysop) by editing this system message page: MediaWiki:Captcha-addurl-whitelist
-- Harry Wood 11:10, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
Spoke too soon didn't I? hmmm let me see. Why isn't that working? -- Harry Wood 11:41, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for sorting it! --Richard 17:15, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Licence vs license

In British English, "licence" is the noun, "license" the verb. (Mnemonic: "I advise you to follow my advice.) In American English, "license" is used for both. British English is probably slightly more the lingua franca of OSM than American. :) --Richard 17:15, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Aha it's those Americans confusing me is it? For a long time I was flitting between spellings randomly.
Nouns hey? So actually the page called "OpenStreetMap License" should be "OpenStreetMap Licence".
Ah well. Could go do some page moving, but that might add another new dimension to the licence debate!
-- Harry Wood 17:44, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

"Incorrect" Use of Yahoo Imagary

I noticed you reverted my change on the South East London Mapping Party page saying: '"incorrectly" because the recommendation is to sketch in untagged ways (*without* highway tag)' due to it appearing mapped. I found the recommendation for using untagged ways and found you were the one who wrote this recommendation. I don't see any consensus to justify calling it correct or incorrect.

Although your way suits your work flow, it does not particularly suit mine. I can download this to my GPS and it assists me in GPS surveying. I can find and correct as I go. Also the road names are available in the ABC Street Atlas of London 1933/4 - I have started adding roads around Woolwich using this method. Manual surveying should be the last resort (although it is the only resort in most cases!)

If we want to find unnamed roads, we can use the maplint layer. Tracking progress of mapping should be done on the wiki rather than the aesthetics of the map (again IMHO). Your work on Kosmos looks very promising in this regard - so why do we need the map to look blank in unnamed road areas?

You seem to be assuming that no one uses OSM for navigation currently. These tagged highways actually might be useful?

I don't accept my method as incorrect. GPS surveying is not the only way to do "proper mapping". Incidentally, is there anywhere in London that has untagged highways? (I promise I won't tag it - yet!) --TimSC 18:18, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah I was taking the opportunity to raise this point again by sneaking the word "incorrectly" in there. Bit cheeky I know. I think you're misinterpreting my message though. I'm actually pro yahoo sketching.
The instructions on how to sketch over yahoo imagery can be found at Yahoo#How to sketch?. As you noticed, I wrote the instructions ...but I did write them based on what I'd read in a mailing list posts / some IRC converstations. And more importantly, I wrote them almost a year ago. There's been plenty of time for people to correct the instructions, if this is not what the consensus is, or even just to call them into question on the talk page. ...but nothing.
It's been frustrating for me actually. I've had very little feedback on this, but I'm also asking for action on my request to change the rendering. Have a read here: Talk:Yahoo! Aerial Imagery#Sketching - Is just tracing useful?.
Maybe nobody has responded to that because I've gone off on a massive rant, but the idea is simple. I've requested the change here too, but no response.
Have a read and let me know what you think. You're involved in sketching alongside other surveyed maps in London (as I am), so I'd be interested in your point of view. Hopefully you'll agree that a simple rendering change could solve the problem
-- Harry Wood 15:31, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Generally people don't respond to discussions here because it's not the commonly accepted channel. The standard discussion channel is the talk mailing list - for everything except for tagging, which takes place on the wiki. Most probably, the people who would actually change the rendering haven't actually seen your request.
I realise you might not want to subject your inbox to an onslaught from lists.openstreetmap.org, which I can entirely understand, but Nabble should help. cheers --Richard 16:04, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
I am moving my responses to the Yahoo imagery talk page which seems more appropriate now. --TimSC 17:47, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
FWIW, Birmingham has lots of untagged ways. And with the possible ownership change of Yahoo, I consider it absolutely fine to trace as much as possible while we still may access the aerial images, even if the highway tag is missing or wrong or has no name tag. --Colin Marquardt 11:08, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

AND China data

Hi, I think the China data from AND was not imported, but dkt (D. Tucny) had imported some other dataset with chinese town names a week before (I cannot reach IRC from there and so cannot ask him and fix it myself). The AND data for China has been deemed too low quality. --Colin Marquardt 11:03, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Bold in the calendar

Hi Harry, i was suposing the bold was to hilight the mapping parties, not the number of partecipants :) I hope to have 10 thousand people at Rovigo. :) --EdoM (lets talk about it) 16:56, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

No no. It's based on number of partcipants. ...not that it really matters I suppose. But hopefully it'll be a bold event soon hey? hmmmm maybe I should plan a "holiday" in Italy. -- Harry Wood 17:41, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
You'll be welcome :) but you should reply in my talk page.. :P --EdoM (lets talk about it) 17:54, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

OS 1914 Data..

Thanks for formatting it :)

If you have access to a libray that has the 1:2500 originals of the date shown you may wish to consider obtaining tracings, or carefully use a length of thread to record the actual distances for the survey points..

Don't use the current OS MasterMap in ANY from to confirm the figures... It has to be from a 'physical' 1:2500 from prior to 1955 !!!

ShakespeareFan00 23:23, 5 April 2008 (BST)

Map Features

could you fix the other languages in the same way you done for the english page? TIA --EdoM (lets talk about it) 22:16, 8 April 2008 (BST)

Could you check my comments in the forum topic ? Pieren 17:21, 9 April 2008 (BST)
Sent today on the forum about this topic:
For the wiki administrator:
the PHP environment is currently limited to 12MB (said in the error report "Allowed memory size of 12582912 bytes exhausted").
A short look on the mediawiki:
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Er … x_bytes.29
says:
Fatal error: Allowed memory size of xxxxxxx bytes exhausted (tried to allocate xxxx bytes)
Raise PHP's memory limit in php.ini:
memory_limit = 32M  ; Maximum amount of memory a script may consume (32MB)
(also on other forums talking about this topic, e.g. ::http://www.mwusers.com/forums/archive/i … -3806.html)
I see that the wiki server is a VM using 512MB (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Servers/vm).
I don't think that allocating 20Mb more (12Mb -> 32Mb) for the wiki would have a serious impact on the server.
And with this value, it will still be possible to display most of the common tags in a single page. Pieren 13:06, 11 April 2008 (BST)

London Border Map

Nicely simple rendering, would be good to get more of London in the view - the whole of Sutton's border is complete. --Thomas Wood 17:34, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

A couple of wiki questions

Hi, I'm new to OSM, so I hope I'm not bothering with questions that might have been answered somewhere, but I wasn't able to find :-)

  1. I was trying to reduce font size in Template:PD-user, as you asked for in the talk page, but using a div style my edit was blocked by spamlist match for "<div" (see talk history) Is it a choice to avoid styling, am I still not an autoconfirmed user to insert divs, or ... ? :-) Fun, it works well in preview :-)
  2. Planning to translate some pages into Italian, I haven't found any guidelines for page titles. I have read the discussion about tags and keys, but what about other kind of pages (i.e. legal, administrative, etc)? Are index.php/Something/It titles accepted? Same for templates?
  3. Any guidelines for categories?

Thank you in advance :-) --Mr G 00:05, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

No problems. I can answer some of these questions.
  1. For div styles the trick is to use upper case DIV. So <DIV style="font-size:0.8em;">smaller text</DIV>. See Talk:Wiki#$wgSpamRegex blocking all divs (we should change this really).
  2. Italian translated wiki pages should be of the form index.php/It:Something. And actually in many cases the 'Something' title would be the english word. This is not ideal, but it does make it clear which page this is a translation of, and enables templates like Template:Language Links to work (example usage: OpenStreetMap License) We haven't really settled on an approach though. There are some other similar templates. Some people have started creating a new template for each page, so the About page has a special Template:Language-about for example. That's only been done for key pages though. You'll notice that not every translated page follows the same name rules. Click around the About links, and most of them are called xx:About, but then there's "Introduktion på svenska" which screws the system up a bit! I suppose we should really kick off a centralised discussion about how we want to manage wiki page translations.
  3. For categories, again we should maybe put together a page of wiki guidelines on how we want to use categories. Personally I don't actually use categories that much. I prefer to just make sure that in-page links form a useful navigation hierarchy to group related pages. But categories come in handy for some things. Basically you'll need to just look around and try to make sure somebody didn't already have the same idea as you, before introducing any new category idea. Other than that, there's no rules in place. It's a free for all!
Hope that answers your questions. Feel free to put forward your own ideas for how to organise these things. I'm trying to group together/link any wiki organisational information at WikiProject Cleanup, and there's the more general "Wiki" page.
-- Harry Wood 09:15, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Delete page Tag:waterway=riverbank

I know that you have admin rights in the wiki. So could you please remove completely the page Tag:waterway=riverbank thus offering the possibility to move the right page Waterway/riverbank to its final (I hope) location with all its history attached. We reached this strange situation after some merges I think. Just delete the old page, I can move the right page and update the links myself. Then, hopefully, naming convention will be preserved ;-) Thanks.--Pieren 09:37, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Ah yeah I was just contemplating doing that move about an hour ago. It is done! -- Harry Wood 10:51, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I would like you to comment on this "multilingual ability"

Hi Harry, I have written a comment on multilingual ability and I would like to ask you if you can comment it. Thanks, --PMay 10:10, 23 June 2008 (UTC)


Gumtree Promotion

It's easy to advertise the London Mapping events on Gumtree by posting a community ad. One problem is I'm not sure if this is suitable for complete beginners. The meet-up seems to be afterwards, whereas newbies would need a time and place to meet up and be briefed.

Could you list it on upcoming as before and I'll put a copy on Gumtree? --OliverLondon 10:51, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

re MapOf broken

Hi Harry, thanks for letting me know. Actually I didn't know the wiki plugin was using MapOf. Cool. Sorry for not replying earlier, but I was firefighting the new t@h server and had little time for anything not emergency-related. Due to your comment, I made MapOf return jpeg format again and also made it return the correct image dimensions. Yes, the offset is still not always right. I will be looking into this. But let me explain why I don't just use the old version. Tiles in the new server are stored as one file per tileset. For this reason the old PHP script can not just fetch the tiles as before. And as the whole server is now running in python, I decided that it would just be easier to also have this in python. To sum it up, the old PHP just wouldn't work as easily as before, and I didn't really have time to look a lot into the python version. If you can get OJW to provide a patch to fix the offset now, that would be great. Otherwise it will have to wait until the most pressing issues (ie server crashes) are solved. --spaetz 10:21, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
  • Fixed now. It still needs to time out in the cache until you see the result. But the UK looks good now too. --spaetz 08:30, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
  • exported images have OSM attribution included now, for osmarender at least. This clashes with your attribution label you use. Either you disable the attribution with a "&skip_attr=1" appended to the URL or you disable your attribution string for osmarender excerpts. --spaetz 10:22, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Semantic Mediawiki

Seems you're a wiki expert, so I'd like to hear your opinion on this: I've been playing around with the Semantic Mediawiki extension [2] and think it could be a great help for sorting out the Map Features and Proposed Features mess. See also [3]. Do you have experience with it? Would it work, or is it too expensive load-wise? Cheers, Robx 08:46, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Yeah I've certainly heard of semantic mediawiki, but never really tried it out. Maybe I'll try this extension on my wiki on a stick and see how it works (can't promise I will get around to doing that very soon though). It could be good for Map Features, or I guess it could be one of these things which just overcompicates matters (in terms of ease of editing the wiki pages) But yeah machine readeability would good. -- Harry Wood 14:16, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
I have a running semantic system and I can say it's really more complicated than to edit Map Features per hand. I don't believe for instance that it is possible to bring the images in the right size in the table. So it has no flexibility. And I hear that semantic wiki is a performance killer.
On the other hand machine readability is really nice, the creating of OSMhack was a really stupid work for me for some hours. But ok.
I see to other kinds of data in the wiki which could be interesting for "semantification". The events could be handle on a live calendar like this it looks very coool, but is it really neccesary? The second datas are the coordinates in Template:Places but there I see no real usage in the moment. In summary I believe the wiki should be a fast and easy to use communication and documentation platform without semantic, because OSM is hard enought.;-) And machine readability can also be done by Wiki-templates and external script. --Kolossos 17:06, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
Hmm. For an OSM project in Berlin, we've been experimenting with this: [4]. The table [5] is generated by SMW, and Attribut:Tagged provides a nice summary of how features can be mapped. I think it's kind of nice, but then I didn't try to make tables containing images so far. Also, I have no idea whether it could handle a wiki the size of this one. But would it be worse than our current use of templates?
I don't agree that it's complex to use: Slightly modifying the standard templates like Template:KeyDescription and Template:Proposal Page would give immediate benefits without requiring the general users to learn anything new. It would then be straightforward to generate say the multitude of tables in the proposal process automatically.
Of course, there would be no need to replace Map features: We could leave it as is, and test an automatically generated SMW test/Map features. Cheers, Robx 14:54, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Switch SlippyMap

Hi Harry

The new version of SlippyMap is developing quite nicely. I would like to bump the version on the OSM wiki to the new version: http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/extensions/SlippyMap/ and http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:SlippyMap

Problem is, the new version has incompatible syntax. Do you know if there a quick way to find out which pages use SlippyMap?

- Firefishy 08:41, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Ah ok. Different syntax.
Unfortunately I don't think there is a nifty way of finding all the pages using it (not like using 'what links here' for templates for example) but just searching for 'slippymap' does turn up those pages along with some other matches.
Doesn't matter hugely if it gets broken for a little while. People will fix it themselves if we explain the new syntax (The Simple image one was broken for a few weeks while they were fiddling with the t@h set-up, and nobody seemed to be too upset) Another option would be to add a wee hack in the extension which detects the old syntax and gives a good error message.
-- Harry Wood 09:22, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
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