Humanitarian OSM Team/Meetings/TrainingWG/12 October 2015

From OpenStreetMap Wiki
Jump to: navigation, search

Meeting Summary

The HOT Training WG meeting for October 12, 2015 began at 18:10 UTC and ended at 19:35 UTC. Regular attendees were limited to Tom Taylor (Chair), Ralph Aytoun, and Russell Deffner. "Alek" and "PovAddict" also took part. Our thanks to them for their contributions.

Agreement on agenda

The proposed agenda was posted to Hackpad, at In the absence of Suzan Reed, Steven Bower, Blake Girardot, and Nick Allen, the agenda was attacked in piecemeal fashion rather than being formally approved.

Approval of previous meeting minutes

Not done.

Matters arising out of prior meeting minutes

Rationalization of German translations (deferred in Nick's absence)

Alek and PovAddict were interested in what the problem was here and in the translation workflow in general. This was explained to them. PovAddict has signed up for translation work, but requires authorization to gain access to the HOT Training WG instance of Transifex.

Progress on revision of HOT-oriented beginner's sections (Suzan)

Deferred in absence of Suzan.

Progress on creation of sire map (Suzan, Steve)

Deferred in absence of Suzan and Steve.

Submission of Task Manager related material for translation (Blake)

Deferred in absence of Blake.

Comments on Blake's task workflow prototype text (all)

The participants had some specific comments for consideration. See the logs for the period 18:51 to 19:01 UTC

Activation training (Russell)

Russell Deffner provided a summary of the status of Activation Training. please see the logs for the period 19:05 to 19:19 UTC. Key link: [1]

Other business

Need for HTML expert to work with Suzan to tweak presentation

Alek pointed out that what will really be needed is CSS expertise, and there may be a huge amount of work involved. Russell suggested the WG might be thinking in terms of a project proposal, but focus its own efforts on structure and content.

Next meeting

Next meeting is scheduled for 1800 UTC on October 26

IRC Logs

18:10:44 <TomT5454> #startmeeting HOT Training WG
18:10:44 <hot_meetbot`> Meeting started Mon Oct 12 18:10:44 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is TomT5454. Information about MeetBot at
18:10:44 <hot_meetbot`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
18:10:44 <hot_meetbot`> The meeting name has been set to 'hot_training_wg'
18:11:37 <TomT5454> Proposed agenda is at
18:12:19 <TomT5454> I expect we'll be shifting things around a bit, since Steve and Nick won't be here.
18:12:38 <Alek> TomT5454: sorry, but I don't think I am a member of a HOT WG ;)
18:13:53 <TomT5454> You spoke up months ago, I think, about not just leaving the work on the training material in the hanbds of experts. Maybe I got the wrong person
18:14:58 <Alek> yep, I participated in some discussions, about some technical preparation for huge mapping events
18:16:03 <TomT5454> I'll leave you to whatever you were doing. WG, commments on the agenda?
18:17:55 <Alek> I noticed that the Nepal learning material used my presets I made public on JOSM wiki
18:18:25 <Alek> is this still needed?
18:19:31 <Alek>
18:20:02 <RAytoun> Alek...I am one of the guys that was mapping Nepal with JOSM so if you are one of the people that made our lives so much easier then thank you
18:20:19 <Alek> this was meant as an temporal tool for me. Maybe I need to delete it some day
18:21:31 <TomT5454> I'm not sure, have to check with the Nepal activation coordinator
18:21:32 <Alek> no problem, when you need another preset, I can do another one pretty easy
18:22:16 <Alek> I was in contact with Blake, but I did named it "inofficial"
18:22:39 <TomT5454> @BlakeGirardot, Ralph: should we wait to see if Suzan appears?
18:24:08 <RAytoun> Suzan is involved in quite a few items on the agenda. She was in touch on the 10th while doing some mapping for Mali. I will send her a prompt to see if she responds
18:24:44 <TomT5454> Thanks
18:24:52 <Alek> I would be glad if the Nepal coordinator has an eye on it and delete this on his own preference
18:26:35 <russdeffner> sorry Tom, still here - still sidetracked...
18:26:48 <russdeffner> Blake is traveling today (if I remember correct)
18:27:33 <russdeffner> One suggestion/request would be to link previous notes from the agenda hackpad, and can I get that link again :)
18:28:45 <russdeffner> and what we have been doing in the AWG and GWG is just having an 'unfinished/old' business section
18:29:29 <russdeffner> so in some cases (like when the main folks aren't around) you'll just have lots of 'rollover' for several meetings
18:29:38 <TomT5454> Which link was it you needed -- the hackpad one or the previous meeting notes?
18:29:56 <russdeffner> previous
18:30:03 <TomT5454> OK
18:30:20 <Alek> what about 3.1? help needed?
18:32:29 <TomT5454> I've added the link to previous meeting at the start of the hackpad agenda
18:33:14 <TomT5454> @Alek: it seems we have multiple versions of German translations and have to sort out which is master
18:33:48 * PovAddict has no idea what you guys are talking about :o
18:35:41 <Alek> I just need to point out, that I am a natural german speaker ;)
18:36:49 <TomT5454> The LearnOSM modules get written by someone in one language (usually English), then volunteers translate them into other languages. Nick Allen has been administering this, and we have introduced an application called Transifex into the workflow
18:37:12 <TomT5454> However, the older route was to put stuff directly onto Github.
18:38:03 <TomT5454> Apparently there are multiple German versions of some module(s) on Github.
18:39:06 <Alek> Ah, this hits my old critical standpoint. I once mentioned to keep the documents on the OSM wiki and not to link to several other platforms
18:39:07 <TomT5454> Michael63 seems to be involved in this
18:39:57 <russdeffner> Alek, there is copyright issue there
18:40:21 <russdeffner> LearnOSM is CC0, so we actually can't take things first published on the wiki
18:40:50 <TomT5454> Transifex provides an administrative tool -- it lets Nick track what is being done. It also provides benefits to the translators, but I don't know the details
18:41:57 <TomT5454> You realize that LearnOSM has dozens of modules, and potentially we could be dealing with a lot of languages, so we're looking at tracking some 500 entities
18:42:02 <Alek> But Git has a huge entry hurdle
18:42:59 <russdeffner> yes - I also don't know Transifex much, but intention was that it would be easier for translators
18:46:06 <TomT5454> Ralph, any response from Suzan?
18:48:11 <RAytoun> No sorry, no response yet
18:48:36 <TomT5454> BlakeGirardot_ are you there?
18:50:05 <TomT5454> Russell, do you want to talk about your stuff to get it on the record, or shall we call it a day. I can wait around to see if Suzan appears.
18:50:18 <Alek> BlakeGirardot BlakeGirardot_ BlakeGirardot__
18:51:06 <russdeffner> I was just looking at the instruction template thing
18:51:43 <russdeffner> In regards to item 3.5
18:52:23 <russdeffner> I think that's a great thing to do in general
18:52:28 <TomT5454> Right. Like it?
18:52:36 <russdeffner> maybe needs a 'header' for what it is
18:53:31 <russdeffner> I'm also not sold on 'Open Areas' being a 'default'/common map feature
18:53:58 <RAytoun> Only one point, the continual reference to the Highway Tag Africa does create some problems when mapping in other parts of the world.
18:54:09 <russdeffner> Think we would maybe more frequently be mapping 'Landuse'
18:54:45 <russdeffner> Ralph - agree, but for this 'template' it's good to have; but shouldn't be included on the project page unless relevant
18:55:03 <PovAddict> where is the transifex thing?
18:55:41 <RAytoun> Oh yes, I agree that it is brilliant and a good guide for other Tasking Manager tasks
18:56:15 <TomT5454> I'll have to look it up, but probably something like They've donated access tyo us
18:56:37 <russdeffner> I think this is the current LearnOSM transifex project:
18:57:15 <PovAddict> transifex is always free for open source projects, so it's not really donated :
) 18:57:20 <PovAddict> russdeffner: that's what I was looking for, thanks
18:58:51 <russdeffner> what I'd love to see in the future is having a 'feature select' on the TM so if you pick 'roads and populated places' as example, then something like those instructions auto-populates
19:00:29 <TomT5454> Yes, that might be nice. As it is, I always have a few browser tabs open to the right feature pages
19:00:43 <russdeffner> I think the length of the instructions for project 1210 demonstrates a reason why we might want to suggest less map features per project
19:00:59 <russdeffner> not sure many will take the time to read all of that
19:01:25 <RAytoun> @Russ that would be ideal because the TM is the first port of call for a lot of new mappers
19:05:04 <TomT5454> OK, we can mull that a bit more. Shall we call it a meeting? Next meeting Oct. 26 at 1800 UTC?
19:05:25 <RAytoun> The reality is that new mappers get strated as quickly as they can and only start looking for answers and training material specifically for something they do not understand 19:05:32 <Alek> I always thought the tasks in TM were too much of a task
19:05:39 <russdeffner> Tom, I'll just document some HTC stuff real quick
19:05:54 <TomT5454> OK, great
19:06:12 <russdeffner> but since we don't really know where Blake wanted to go from here; I guess we some more time to review
19:07:24 <russdeffner> First, just for everyone's knowledge/review I drafted a 'final report' from the Activation Curriculum project...
19:07:46 <russdeffner>
19:08:19 <TomT5454> I myself haven't done anything useful yet, but I have been clearing the decks. I announced my retirement from all the various IETF work I've been involved in
19:10:02 <russdeffner> Mhairi and I met this morning to do some other 'final reporting' mainly internal, but also got her ok to 'publish' that report, so ignore the anticipated release date
19:11:19 <russdeffner> Long story short, there are a few 'components' lacking before we're really ready to start the review/improve cycle
19:12:01 <russdeffner> but all the pieces are there, so anyone interested in learning about and becoming an Activation coordinator can start taking the courses:
19:13:21 <PovAddict> ok so against my better judgement (I have too many things to do already) I signed up to translate learnosm
19:13:32 <russdeffner> still working out the bugs with a few of the workshop participants, so once I can get those worked out, then we can really start discussing where do we go from here and how to get there
19:13:51 <TomT5454> Povvaddict: thank you
19:13:56 <russdeffner> one thing is translation/localization and offline functionality
19:14:05 <russdeffner> I guess that's two things :)
19:14:29 <russdeffner> but probably the next biggest improvements
19:15:54 <russdeffner> I also think that content-wise, it will probably be the coordinators and the Activation Working Group that will need to do the bulk/at least first round of content improvement
19:16:13 <PovAddict> looks like someone has to approve my request though
19:16:35 <TomT5454> That wil;l be Nick Allan, I think
19:17:03 <TomT5454> He's travelling today
19:17:32 <TomT5454> Thanks, Russell
19:18:17 <russdeffner> I think we'll have some 'clear asks' for LearnOSM in the near future, but also didn't want that to impeed the 'first round' of cleanup there
19:19:22 <russdeffner> the linkage between the courses and modules on Learn has been great, I think our 'long-time' HOT folks appreciated that the training center wasn't trying to replace or replicate the content on Learn
19:19:23 <TomT5454> OK. We seem to have a major dependebcy on Suzan
19:20:11 <PovAddict> ...that's a problem
19:21:35 <RAytoun> This is a transient dependancy. Once she and her partner have set up the website structures it is business back to usual
19:21:47 <Alek> delegation is the key of every management ;)
19:24:56 <TomT5454> On item 5 of the agenda, Other Business, I noted in our previous (end-September) meeting a couple of remarks (Nick, Suzan) about the need for an HTML expert to tweaek the LearnOSM style.
19:25:34 <Alek> more of a CSS expert I like to suggest
19:25:46 <TomT5454> Currently stuff is marked up in Markup, which has an HTML translator but with limitations.
19:27:04 <TomT5454> What I'll do, but I don't think the time is right, is appeal to the HOT as well as the WG list for help. Worst come to worst I'll ask for a good reference and do the work myself.
19:28:10 <Alek> CSS can be tricky, even if you want to cover several rendering engines
19:28:20 <russdeffner> Was just about to suggest email the group, there are some tech oriented people there
19:29:57 <Alek> and it can be a huge task if you even want to support mobile screens
19:31:24 <TomT5454> OK, have to think about that. Maqybe the ambitions for LearnOSM have to be curbed a bit
19:32:22 <TomT5454> Can we quit?
19:32:49 <russdeffner> and/or this group could focus more on the design or documenting the need for a grant opportunity, etc.
19:33:40 <TomT5454> I'll think about that. Might be mnore practical.
19:34:14 <TomT5454> Translation probably takes priority over presentation improvements
19:34:44 <TomT5454> Though maybe the same resources aren't involved
19:35:18 <TomT5454> #endmeeting