Humanitarian OSM Team/Meetings/TrainingWG/22 September 2014
11:04 Tallguy: hi clairedelune, are you here for the meeting?
11:06 Tallguy: OK, maybe a problem for clairedelune - can I check who else is here for the training wg meeting?
11:06 clairedelune: Hi Tallguy, yes of course
11:06 clairedelune: Who else is there for the Training WG meeting?
11:06 russdeffner: hello, I'm here for the Training WG
11:07 bgirardot: Me too.
11:07 bgirardot: Hi everyone.
11:07 clairedelune: Jorieke told me she was having a very bad connection at GeOnG, so she's not sure she'll make it.
11:08 clairedelune: Shall we start?
11:09 Tallguy: are we working from https://hackpad.com/Discussion-ideas-for-HOTs-training-working-group-mYgJQEbueIi
11:09 clairedelune: Here is a tentative agenda, I think we could start with this and then follow up with Tallguy link: https://hackpad.com/Training-WG-Meeting-September-22-2014-9NzuP5yITYw
11:11 clairedelune: So, good news to start with: 1. the Board approved our new terms of reference;
11:11 Tallguy: nice to hear that
11:11 clairedelune: 2. HIU agreed with us using screenshots from their imagery for training purposes (if credited with proper DigitalGlobe copyright)
11:13 clairedelune: 3. HOT will be offering an internship to a woman through OPW program, we can suggest ideas for her to work on here: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team/OPM_Project_Ideas
11:13 bgirardot: Thats great, I'll make a credit template for it in the wiki
11:13 clairedelune: Regarding HIU it seems to be enough if digitalglobe copyright is visible on the picture, otherwise we should add it near it.
11:15 clairedelune: Regarding internship ideas, we can discuss this now, or see at the end of the meeting where this kind of support would be welcome. Otherwise, anyone can suggest ideas on that page anyway. The intern will pick one.
11:17 clairedelune: 4. Some of you did not add their names to the group wiki page. If you want to be listed in the "interested individuals" of our WG, please add your name here: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team/Working_groups/Training#Interested_Individuals
11:20 clairedelune: If there's no specific request on the previous informative points, I think we can go through our list of discussion ideas + getting updates on the ideas already under development. We can share as well any need for support to develop further/improve/review this new material.
11:20 clairedelune: Anyone wants to start?
11:21 Tallguy: I'd like soome discussion on a better feedback link for contributors in TM
11:21 Tallguy: if in agreement, could we request consideration by technical wg
11:21 bgirardot: What do you mean by a better feedback link?
11:22 Tallguy: just looking for it in the hackpad
11:22 clairedelune: So far validators send messages through OSM I think
11:23 Tallguy: one of the ideas in https://hackpad.com/Discussion-ideas-for-HOTs-training-working-group-mYgJQEbueIi - I've added a bit about discussion this meeting
11:23 bgirardot: I see. I was just confused on the word "link"
11:24 bgirardot: As I am in the process of adding "links" to the TM now to the mailing list, irc channel and info email address.
11:25 bgirardot: But now I understand what tallguy is saying about linking validators and contributors more closely
11:26 clairedelune: I think Tallguy means helping validators and contributors to exchange messages about their square easier
11:27 clairedelune: if you click on the discussion ideas link, you'll finf more info after scrolling down a bit.
11:27 bgirardot: Aye, I understand now :)
11:28 Tallguy: yes - have a summary page available to a remote mapper, so they can see easily in one page what has been validated, and the comments (if any) from validator - more of a coaching role than validating
11:28 clairedelune: But Tallguy, do you mean creating ibox/messaging system specific to Tasking manager, or related to OSM messaging system?
11:28 Tallguy: Not worried about sending a message at this stage, just seeing a list of validators comments on one page of TM
11:29 clairedelune: So a contributor would see all the messages sent to him about tasks he's been editing, right?
11:30 Tallguy: Like this, but with a list of squares that have been validated, and the validators comments - list in reverse date order so can see most recent square completed and comments at top of page
11:30 Tallguy: http://tasks.hotosm.org/user/Tallguy
11:30 Tallguy: clairedelune - no message sent, just a web page with a list of validators comments
11:33 clairedelune: I like the idea, but the user would the user need to click on his page to see the comments, or would he/she get notified each time a comment is sent to him/her?
11:33 Tallguy: optional to click on it - old hands probably not interested
11:34 clairedelune: (sorry for the typos by the way)
11:34 Melosm: Hi all! We are finally here and following! Joricke and Melanie
11:34 clairedelune: If not interested, it could be good to validators to know it, so they don't lose time giving explanations.
11:35 clairedelune: Great, welcome Jorieke and Melosm!
11:35 Melosm: Thank you! Sorry for the delay!
11:37 clairedelune: Our agenda is here: https://hackpad.com/Training-WG-Meeting-September-22-2014-9NzuP5yITYw and we are currently discussing Nick's idea described here: https://hackpad.com/Discussion-ideas-for-HOTs-training-working-group-mYgJQEbueIi
11:38 clairedelune: Tallguy, will you send the idea to the Technical WG?
11:39 clairedelune: Who would be supporting this idea?
11:39 Tallguy: I'd like to know if there is some support before going any further
11:41 sanderd17: I'd like to be able to see comments on my tiles.
11:41 clairedelune: There's clearly a need for improved feedback. We can wait and see if another idea comes out...
11:41 bgirardot: Oh, I think we might need to talk about it a bit more, maybe in light of some of the other ideas about increasing the feedback for mappers
11:42 bgirardot: And maybe priortize some of the changes we'd like, I know the technical wg is going to be talking about priorities this afternoon I think
11:42 Tallguy: I've completed a very quick example here https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FQIsXkUzr6OMGUyD7FxhbBgYdJiyRnnVB0-Oma-dB8s/edit?usp=sharing
11:43 bgirardot: For example, I'd much rather see users, any users, not just validators, subscribe to comments on a task, that way anyone can get the validation feedback, even people who didn't mark it done.
11:43 bgirardot: not just people marking it done I mean to say.
11:44 Tallguy: I agree in the long term, but that could be confusing as the squares overlap from different tasks, also some mappers are tracing roads months in advance of a task being created
11:45 bgirardot: I like the idea, it would be nice to have a list of validator comments for every task I marked done
11:46 clairedelune: Agreed that it can be interesting to other users too. But I'm wondering if it wouldn't frighten new users... if anyone can see public comments saying they've not been doing right. Or maybe it can motivate them to correct it as soon as possible... what do you think?
11:46 bgirardot: Comments on validation are public now
11:47 Tallguy: you can see comments on anyone else now, just by locating their square & clicking on it
11:47 Melosm: Like the idea as well and from my experience new mappers would like appreciate comments, even if not positive..
11:47 Melosm: Like the idea as well and from my experience new mappers would like appreciate comments, even if not positive..
11:47 bgirardot: And not just interesting to others, I might mark a task done that someone else did all the work for, but as a new mapper they didn't feel comfortable marking it done
11:49 Tallguy: validators would find it helpful to know if feedback has already been given on a subject
11:49 sanderd17: We already get notified for invalidated squares IIRC
11:49 sanderd17: But only those negative comments might become a bit depressing.
11:50 bgirardot: Invalidated squares we do get notified of.
11:50 Tallguy: I frequently make small corrections & then mark square as validated - leave a message in the square or send a message through OSm suggesting improvements
11:50 clairedelune: I know comments are currently public but I've seen a few contributors being "contradicted" in a repeated way, and I'm wondering if they will continue editing on TM or not, I will investigate.
11:55 clairedelune: So to summarize, what would be the significative improvements of this idea compared with current situation: Getting a clear view of all comments added on a contributor's tasks, right? But those messages could still be displayed the way they are, clicking on a square. They should also allow a hight limit in text length. Did I get you right Tallguy?
11:55 clairedelune: I think we should also continue with the next item, which other idea would you like to discuss now?
11:56 Tallguy: Yes, it is currently very long winded and time consuming to check if you have had any square validated, and what the comment was
11:56 russdeffner: seems this is either something we could either get real specific and maybe create some mock-up pages, or make a 'simple' request to Tech WG to 'improve how users can view comments'?
11:58 Tallguy: Realise we are running out of time - if we can't finish this during this session can it be high on agenda for next time, with research & a mock up done?
11:59 clairedelune: I think we understand the issue better now, +1 Russ. I also think any contributor who had blocked/unblocked the square could get a notification. But could be separate if the square had been marked as done by him.
12:00 clairedelune: No problem with adding this as first thing (or nearly) on next meeting agenda.
12:00 clairedelune: Everyone ok with this?
12:00 Tallguy: I'd rather not generate too many notifications / messages as it could irritate - just give mappers the option of a simple method of checking
12:00 sanderd17: +1
12:01 Tallguy: Thank you, I will create a mock up - google docs?
12:01 Melosm: Agree with Tallguy
12:01 russdeffner: agree to table the item till next time, with 'offline' work between now and then
12:02 russdeffner: gdocs would probably work fine
12:02 clairedelune: Great, thank you Tallguy.
12:02 clairedelune: bgirardot, do you want to share any update about your editing imagery illustration work?
12:05 clairedelune: Our discussion ideas list is a bit long at the moment... I would suggest anyone who wants to prioritize one or some items to comment them now, or to add them to our next meeting tentative agenda.
12:05 clairedelune: (I added it below our current agenda)
12:05 bgirardot: Oh, I added a bit more, I have screen shots for more as well
12:06 bgirardot: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Bgirardot/Typical_Road_and_Residential_Task -- title is out of date, scroll down for more recent additions
12:06 Tallguy: bgirardot - I'm pleased to hear it - definite asset
12:10 bgirardot: I'll get more done, feedback welcome as always
12:11 clairedelune: Nice, thank you, will send you comments.
12:11 clairedelune: Melosm, I haven't been able yet to access your dropbox yet so couldn't read your doc unfortunately.
12:14 Melosm: Connection is not working properly, will go through the chat later on and comment then. Sorry for the inconvienience.
12:15 clairedelune: No worries, thank you for trying Melosm
12:15 clairedelune: Noone else has got an idea to be discussed now?
12:16 Tallguy: clairedelune did you have the chance to try out using smaller squares in tm
12:16 clairedelune: I had a few contributors working on a private task with small squares during the weekend. I'm going to improve the instructions part and share it publicly.
12:17 Tallguy: Sounds good, I'll look forward to hearing the outcome
12:17 Tallguy: If you would like me to join in validating on this task, let me know
12:18 clairedelune: I think I will send an email on the list, or add in the title that it is for new contributors. And yes your validating support will be most welcome.
12:18 clairedelune: Thank you.
12:19 clairedelune: About the "validation training kit" idea, I had thought about it as part of a check list for contributors too.
12:20 clairedelune: We could either have a FAQ on the TM for giving tips on how to edit this or this object.
12:20 clairedelune: Or a checklist of things as already described in that validation suggestion
12:21 Tallguy: I think one link from TM to LearnOSM, but then something in LearnOSM
12:22 bgirardot: Yes, I definately need help with validating tasks. I think I can do it, then every time I try I have to ask Tallguy about it :)
12:23 clairedelune: ;-)
12:23 Tallguy: you're more than welcome
12:24 clairedelune: If we do not want to add editing explanations on the TM, I would add link towards the wiki for each specific object (LearnOSM is great but not much object specific)
12:28 clairedelune: I'm sorry, I'll be disconnected for the 10-15 next minutes... can we plan for the next meeting?
12:29 Tallguy: same time next week works for me
12:29 bgirardot: Same here.
12:29 clairedelune: Monday, 15:00 UTC, in 2 more weeks?
12:29 clairedelune: or next week?
12:29 Tallguy: I'm okay for next week, not sure at this stage about the week after
12:30 clairedelune: If you want to prioritize any discussion item for next meeting, please add it to the list, end of the page: https://hackpad.com/Training-WG-Meeting-September-22-2014-9NzuP5yITYw
12:31 clairedelune: Ok for next week then. Thank you all and have a nice week!
12:31 Tallguy: Thank you, and yo
12:31 Tallguy: you!
12:32 bgirardot: Thank you clairedelune
12:32 russdeffner: Yes, thanks all; been sidetracked by other stuff this morning