Humanitarian OSM Team/Working groups/Technical/meeting 2012-04-05

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First meeting of the HOT TWG which took place on IRC on Thu 10th May 2012

IRC logs

springmeyer: TWG! here we go
[07:01am] springmeyer: Hi everyone - if you are here for the Technical working group meeting...
[07:01am] pierzen joined the chat room.
[07:01am] springmeyer: here is a basic agenda:
[07:01am] pgiraud: hello all
[07:02am] springmeyer: Agenda
[07:02am] springmeyer: - raise hand if present, state name, and interests (in just a few words)
[07:02am] springmeyer: - What existing software tools has HOT sponsored or encouraged
[07:02am] springmeyer: - how can we best/better coordinate software development priorities for HOTOSM needs?
[07:02am] springmeyer: - What gaps exist in the current tools?
[07:02am] CGI112 joined the chat room.
[07:02am] springmeyer: so, I will start by introducing myself
[07:02am] CGI112 left the chat room.
[07:02am] CGI112 joined the chat room.
[07:02am] CGI112 left the chat room.
[07:03am] springmeyer: I'm Dane Springmeyer, on the board of hotosm, and excited to help coordinate and maximize the power of HOT through better software
[07:04am] springmeyer: others here for the meeting please introduce yourself
[07:04am] pgiraud: I'm Pierre GIRAUD, hotosm member, mainly involved in the development of the Tasking Manager
[07:04am] Firefishy joined the chat room.
[07:05am] harry-wood: I'm Harry Wood, also on the board of hotosm. Don't get much time to develop stuff, but if I did I'd make HOT stuff
[07:05am] IknowJoseph: hello, Joseph Reeves, interested in using HOT software, will largely be lurking as I'm supposed to at work.
[07:05am] harry-wood: Yeah ditto that. Supposed to be at work
[07:05am] springmeyer: lurking is just fine, jump in any time
[07:06am] _Matze_ joined the chat room.
[07:06am] springmeyer: IknowJoseph: and harry-wood - for future meetings would later in the day be better?
[07:06am] geohacker joined the chat room.
[07:06am] harry-wood: Well for europeans maybe
[07:07am] IknowJoseph: I'm not a developer, so I'd probably just lurk regardless of the time
[07:07am] • pgiraud is european too
[07:07am] springmeyer: okay, when I send out meeting notes from this meeting I will propose a slightly later time
[07:07am] • geohacker is not.
[07:07am] springmeyer: I'm west coast US, so this is pretty early for me
[07:07am] • Firefishy is African... Living in London town.
[07:08am] springmeyer: great, for those that just joined I will re-state agenda:
[07:08am] springmeyer: springmeyer: - raise hand if present, state name, and interests (in just a few words)
[07:08am] springmeyer: [07:02am] springmeyer: - What existing software tools has HOT sponsored or encouraged
[07:08am] springmeyer: [07:02am] springmeyer: - how can we best/better coordinate software development priorities for HOTOSM needs?
[07:08am] springmeyer: [07:02am] springmeyer: - What gaps exist in the current tools
[07:08am] • geohacker is in India. IST is Indian Stretchable Time.
[07:09am] springmeyer: geohacker: nice
[07:09am] springmeyer: geohacker: what are your main interests related to software and hot?
[07:09am] DennisL joined the chat room.
[07:10am] geohacker: springmeyer: I'm an independent consultant. and I help people to use maps.
[07:10am] springmeyer: geohacker: great, and you are Sajjad Anwar ?
[07:10am] geohacker: I work with NGOs in India to help them build geo infrastructure.
[07:10am] geohacker: springmeyer: yes!
[07:10am] pierzen: Pierre Béland, team member and interested in various aspect of HotOsm. EST Time schedule. Time is less a problem for me.
[07:11am] chippy joined the chat room.
[07:11am] harry-wood: perzen==Pierre Beland  !=the other pierre ….must try to remember that
[07:11am] jgc: J...G...C..., hotosm member, lurking while tracing in Tierralta
[07:12am] pgiraud: I'm still interested in working on the Tasking Manager, my will is to make it as easy to use as possible
[07:12am] springmeyer: pgiraud: great segway
[07:12am] springmeyer: great, so intros are wrapping up, now I'll move to recapping existing tools that HOT members are actively working on
[07:12am] geohacker: cool
[07:12am] springmeyer: 1) pgiraud's Tasking Manager - |
[07:13am] springmeyer: many of us know and already love this tool, its in active use for HOT
[07:13am] springmeyer: from a top level I'm excited to see it has a healthy issue queue:
[07:13am] springmeyer: it is also linked off the new web site for HOT:
[07:14am] geohacker: neat
[07:14am] springmeyer: but we plan to have a "tools" page that will feature it and the others I'm about to cover
[07:14am] pgiraud: what does healthy mean?
[07:14am] springmeyer: so that new people that are interested in HOT will be able to quickly find code to contribute to
[07:14am] springmeyer: pgiraud: active, and long
[07:14am] harry-wood: hehe. I was wondering what healthy meant
[07:15am] springmeyer: and with as many closed tasks as open
[07:15am] geohacker: +1 to the tools page.
[07:15am] pgiraud: I recently got pull requests from a potential contributor
[07:15am] _Matze_ left the chat room.
[07:15am] springmeyer: geohacker: thx, this is on my plate for doing this week and I will sent out to the mailing list for review
[07:15am] springmeyer: pgiraud: nice. can you summarize briefly what the big next steps are for the tool?
[07:16am] pgiraud: no real road map, but many ideas that are still in my head
[07:17am] springmeyer: okay, good enough. I'll move on then to cover things quickly...
[07:17am] pgiraud: I tried to create a "draw your own area" feature to allow users to draw polygons
[07:17am] geohacker: pgiraud: I can write Python. Have used and now building stuff using Flask.
[07:17am] springmeyer: 2) SDS-Server - - a way to separately store private data tied to osm_id (works with JOSM plugin)
[07:17am] geohacker: i'll touch base the code and see what I can do
[07:18am] springmeyer: This tool was written by Geofabrik and used for the HOT indonesia project
[07:18am] springmeyer: since it deals with private data there is not a public instance, but the code is open
[07:19am] pgiraud: what does SDS mean ?
[07:19am] geohacker: okay.
[07:19am] springmeyer: "Separate DataStore"
[07:19am] springmeyer: name comes from the specific JOSM plugin it integrates with
[07:19am] harry-wood: back in a minute
[07:19am] springmeyer: harry-wood: k
[07:19am] harry-wood left the chat room. (Quit: Leaving.)
[07:20am] springmeyer: No actionable things on this tool for us as a group that I know of, but good to know it exists...
[07:20am] springmeyer: 3) - Exports tool - | - currently instance is specific to Haiti but has a lot of potential
[07:20am] springmeyer: also written by the talented guys at geofabrik. it accepts a bbox and pumped out data extracts in a ton of formats
[07:21am] springmeyer: This tool is very new, I encourage anyone interested to get it running locally
[07:22am] springmeyer: I also would like to encourage thinking around how it overlaps/complements other export tools - this is obviously a common thing
[07:22am] geohacker: so you basically create a new job, submit the bounding box. right?
[07:22am] springmeyer: yes
[07:23am] springmeyer: It was specifically designed for the mapping needs in haiti where very non-techical users needed frequent extracts
[07:23am] geohacker: okay.
[07:23am] billyirst joined the chat room.
[07:24am] pierzen: SDS Server Description and More information link are not operational.
[07:24am] springmeyer: pierzen: great, I will look at fixing that, thank you
[07:25am] springmeyer: Any other questions about those tools?
[07:26am] geohacker: springmeyer: doesn't the hot-extract work for the whole planet now?
[07:26am] • geohacker tries
[07:26am] springmeyer: geohacker: I was not aware that it did. the tool certainly could but I think its only populated with haiti data
[07:26am] harry-wood joined the chat room.
[07:26am] springmeyer: that instance at least
[07:27am] springmeyer: So, that was my main list I wanted to cover today.
[07:27am] iandees joined the chat room.
[07:27am] springmeyer: Anything I missed?
[07:27am] pgiraud: maybe it's off topic, but is there any guideline about licenses for the tools?
[07:28am] springmeyer: pgiraud: great question
[07:28am] pgiraud: the tasking manager is currently NOT licensed
[07:28am] pgiraud: Kate already asked me about that
[07:28am] springmeyer: The hot board discussed this and felt like the next step
[07:29am] springmeyer: would be to discuss licensing on the mailing list
[07:29am] pgiraud: that's fine
[07:29am] springmeyer: to gather peoples thoughts
[07:29am] springmeyer: HOT tools so far have tended to be BSD licenced
[07:29am] pgiraud: I'm open to any proposal
[07:29am] springmeyer: but I think we should discuss as a group a bit
[07:29am] springmeyer: okay, great pgiraud
[07:30am] jgc: pgiraud, seeing that the tasking manager can export task tiles as a shapefile, I was wondering whether it would be possible to also import task boundaries as a shapefile ?
[07:30am] pgiraud: it should be really easy
[07:31am] jgc: This could be useful to share checking of, eg, Orbview3 images
[07:31am] jgc: great
[07:31am] pgiraud: don't hesitate to open an issue on that topic
[07:32am] springmeyer: pgiraud: at, yes?
[07:32am] jgc: ok
[07:32am] springmeyer: thanks jgc
[07:32am] springmeyer: so, let's move on to next agenda items
[07:32am] springmeyer: good starting topics for discussion I felt are:
[07:32am] geohacker: hmm Tasking Manager looks very interesting.
[07:32am] • geohacker clones.
[07:32am] springmeyer: - how can we best/better coordinate software development priorities for HOTOSM needs?
[07:32am] springmeyer: - What gaps exist in the current tools?
[07:33am] springmeyer: So, basically: how can we work together better and what should be the top priorities?
[07:34am] geohacker: sorry. I need to step out for a bit. back soon.
[07:34am] springmeyer: we have 30 minutes to discuss freely here, if you have the time, so share you thoughts and take off when you need to
[07:34am] springmeyer: geohacker: k, see you later
[07:34am] geohacker: springmeyer: I'll look up the log and respond.
[07:35am] springmeyer: okay, good
[07:35am] springmeyer: So, my feelings are that we need
[07:35am] springmeyer: a page at like
[07:36am] springmeyer: that lists all the top tools and potential needs
[07:36am] pgiraud: can we say that using github is a good solution to work on code?
[07:36am] springmeyer: yes, I think so
[07:36am] springmeyer: my second thought is to do a better job
[07:36am] springmeyer: promoting and using this group: and that we get more people
[07:36am] springmeyer: er, copy paste error
[07:36am] springmeyer: this group:
[07:37am] pgiraud: I didn't know that this group existed
[07:37am] springmeyer: right, it was created but not used much yet
[07:37am] springmeyer: so it is a possibility to use more
[07:38am] harry-wood: Is it just a grouping of repos?
[07:39am] springmeyer: harry-wood: yes
[07:39am] springmeyer: I can add each of you as members now - what do you think?
[07:40am] harry-wood: yep. do it
[07:40am] • pgiraud agrees
[07:40am] pierzen: +1
[07:40am] harry-wood: I was imagining I might have to do some coding work to show up on the list
[07:40am] harry-wood: So we should/could add the tasking manager to this?
[07:41am] pgiraud: I think so
[07:41am] springmeyer: I would be supportive of that if pgiraud was open
[07:41am] pgiraud: I am
[07:41am] springmeyer: okay
[07:42am] pgiraud: what do I need to do?
[07:42am] springmeyer: can each of you state your github username?
[07:42am] springmeyer: (i realize it may be the same as IRC)
[07:42am] harry-wood:
[07:42am] pgiraud:
[07:43am] pierzen:
[07:44am] harry-wood: The thing I don't like about github is… it reveals just how much I talk about stuff and don't do anything
[07:44am] flavour: awake now
[07:44am] jsanz left the chat room. (Quit: Saliendo)
[07:44am] pgiraud: harry-wood, talking is better than doing nothing
[07:44am] springmeyer: hey flavour - nice nic
[07:45am] Firefishy:
[07:45am] springmeyer: flavour: great to have you, can you state your name and general interests?
[07:45am] flavour: Fran Boon, Sahana Eden lead developer
[07:45am] flavour: Interested in supporting Huamnaitarian Orgs
[07:45am] flavour: With Mapping tools
[07:45am] springmeyer: awesome, thanks
[07:45am] flavour: & Data
[07:46am] flavour: Work with IFRC, WFP, Oxfam, etc
[07:46am] IknowJoseph: flavour: according to github we're in the same town? Oxford?
[07:46am] flavour: ok
[07:46am] flavour: Cool, let's meet
[07:46am] IknowJoseph: sounds good!
[07:47am] flavour: So I integrate OSM into Sahana as much as possible - embed Potlatch, do import/export of our data to .osm format, use OSM Tiles as Baselayer
[07:47am] springmeyer: okay, thanks team - all usernames added to the github/hotosm group
[07:47am] springmeyer: so you should recieve an email notice
[07:47am] flavour: I assume the 'Potlatch on slow links' issue is more the data on live server as opposed to the client download?
[07:48am] springmeyer: I may still shift around a bit, but the important thing is I have your usernames now
[07:48am] flavour: We can fix the latter but not the former, obviously
[07:48am] flavour: I had wanted to be able to have a local replica of DB for edits
[07:48am] flavour: But that doesn't seem something that is easy to support in OSM currently
[07:48am] flavour: Although I guss that could eb done by adding to Sahana DB & then exporting as .osm
[07:49am] flavour: Funny hyow things click sometimes
[07:49am] springmeyer: flavour: I'm not fully following
[07:50am] springmeyer: we're discussing here the basic question of how can we work together better and what should be the top priorities for HOT re: tools and software
[07:50am] flavour: Yup
[07:50am] flavour: Well, the editors issue had been one, wasn't it?
[07:50am] flavour: Raised by the training team
[07:50am] flavour: Potlatch easy to use but bad on slow links
[07:50am] flavour: JOSM hard to use but great offline
[07:51am] harry-wood: yeah I was wondering about this too flavour. Wasn't clear if the issue was data traffic as opposed to the initial client download
[07:51am] springmeyer: yes, thanks for tying together
[07:51am] flavour: So I'm not sure iif Sahana can count as a HOTOSM tool
[07:51am] flavour: It certainly has some potential there
[07:51am] flavour: But it's not really its direct focus
[07:51am] harry-wood: Is sahana quite a big well funded project?
[07:51am] harry-wood: I have that impression
[07:52am] flavour: Pretty big although funds are project-tied as-usual
[07:52am] flavour: IFRC are investing a lot at the moment
[07:52am] springmeyer: flavour: there are tools HOTOSM works on specifically and then a wider ecosystem we want to support
[07:52am] flavour: We've been workign with Asia Pacific zone but both Americas & Africa have advertised for full-time positions to roll it out
[07:52am] springmeyer: sahana I would say is definitely one
[07:52am] flavour: So then IFRC will have 4 ppl globally working fuill-time on rolling it out
[07:53am] flavour: So a pretty big investment from them all in all
[07:53am] flavour: Cool - I see Sahana as beign a big way in which Huamnitarians will access OSM data
[07:53am] harry-wood: and Sahana deployment (sending people places) projects etc. So it's a full-on organisation which HOT needs to mesh with
[07:53am] flavour: & I'd like them to be able to contribute back more easily too as they have boots on the ground & know what's apepning
[07:53am] springmeyer: for those who missed the acronym:
[07:54am] flavour: Job Advert for Africa:
[07:54am] flavour: RMS = IFRC's branded version of Sahana
[07:55am] jgc: springmeyer, sorry, I was not looking:
[07:55am] springmeyer: jgc: thx
[07:56am] springmeyer: so, we have just 5 more minutes until wrapping up
[07:56am] springmeyer: 1) we covered existing tools
[07:56am] springmeyer: 2) discussed coordinating better via github grouo "hotosm"
[07:57am] springmeyer: 3) discussed related tools/projects like sahana
[07:57am] flavour: How does the GitHub group improve coordination?
[07:57am] springmeyer: 4) I mentioned I will be creating a tools page at that I will look for review on
[07:57am] flavour: Tools page will eb a Wiki?
[07:57am] • pgiraud is still wondering how to get OSMTM in the list of repos in the hotosm github's page
[07:57am] springmeyer: flavour: open question.
[07:58am] springmeyer: pgiraud: let's connect on that after the meeting
[07:58am] pgiraud: ok
[07:58am] flavour: We need some kind of sctrachpad
[07:58am] flavour: To work out where the gaps are
[07:58am] flavour: & suggest ways of bridging those
[07:59am] springmeyer: flavour: yes, and maybe a high level issue tracker that indicates big gaps where we see solutions
[07:59am] flavour: Can we use the GitHub group for that?
[08:00am] springmeyer: flavour: sounds good to me - are others okay with that?
[08:00am] springmeyer: the other way to do it would be to use the osm wiki
[08:00am] flavour: I'm not sure if GitHub groups have trackers
[08:00am] flavour: Seems to be just repos
[08:00am] flavour: I'm fine with the OSM wiki if GitHub doesn't have a non-repo locatiion...or we could create a dummy repo for the coordination?
[08:00am] springmeyer: yeah, just repo's - so we could create a general repo for cross-cutting issues perhaps
[08:01am] springmeyer: yeah, exactly ^^
[08:01am] springmeyer: ideas for names?
[08:02am] flavour: Same as the group? hotosm
[08:02am] springmeyer: k, good call
[08:02am] springmeyer: okay, meeting time is up
[08:03am] springmeyer: thanks everyone for showing up and discussing broadly. I think this sets us up nicely for future meetings
[08:03am] springmeyer: my actionable items are:
[08:03am] springmeyer: 1) update
[08:03am] springmeyer: 2) create "hotosm" github repo to coordinate on wiki
[08:04am] springmeyer: 3) work with pgiraud to discuss moving over tasking server to the hotosm github group
[08:04am] springmeyer: 4) send out TWG meeting notes to the hot mailing list
[08:05am] dodobas: hi
[08:05am] springmeyer: hi dodobas
[08:05am] pgiraud: thanks springmeyer
[08:05am] dodobas: is there anything i can do ?
[08:05am] springmeyer: thank you pgiraud!
[08:06am] harry-wood: springmeyer: IRC logs are pasted in as a subpage of a subpage of this page by convention
[08:06am] springmeyer: dodobas: spread the word that we are getting organized
[08:06am] springmeyer: harry-wood: yes, great
[08:07am] springmeyer: harry-wood or anyone else, would you mind doing that?
[08:07am] dodobas: springmeyer: ok, ill read the log
[08:07am] springmeyer: my IRC client embeds the date for each line which makes copying it out messy
[08:07am] harry-wood: I have a magic script for this problem:
[08:07am] springmeyer: ah, sweetness
[08:08am] harry-wood: unfortunately i don't have the full record for today because I had to reboot in the middle of the meeting
[08:08am] springmeyer: okay, I can do it then, the datestamps are not a big deal
[08:10am] harry-wood: springmeyer: Paste it from your window, wrapping in a <pre> tag… and I'll have a fiddle
[08:11am] • pgiraud can paste it
[08:11am] springmeyer: pgiraud: gist and I will take a look?
[08:12am] harry-wood: right hang on I'll set up the subpage
[08:13am] harry-wood: did we schedule the next meeting BTW?
[08:13am] pgiraud:
[08:15am] springmeyer: pgiraud: thank you
[08:15am] springmeyer: harry-wood: I'm working on subpages now
[08:15am] springmeyer: harry-wood: we missed setting next meeting
[08:15am] springmeyer: I propose we discuss next meeting on the mailing list, sound okay?