Humanitarian OSM Team/Working groups/Technical/meeting 2013-10-07

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Meeting to discuss Tech topics on Monday 10th October 2013

IRC log:

18:01 dodobas: anyway... shell we begin ?
18:02 dodobas: biweekly HOT tech WG meeting
18:02 pierregiraud: is in but only for 15 minutes
18:02 dodobas: keeping the same format, do we have anyone who wants to start things off
18:02 dodobas: pierregiraud: please start :)
18:02 pierregiraud: ok
18:03 pierregiraud: so, I'm still re-adding features to the tasking manager v2
18:03 pierregiraud: the list of things that are still missing is here
18:03 pierregiraud: https://github.com/pgiraud/osm-tasking-manager2/issues
18:04 pierregiraud: the other thing is that I would be happy to show it somewhere online
18:04 pierregiraud: dodobas: what's the status?
18:04 dodobas: blushes
18:04 dodobas: well, i have the postgresql/postgis running, and i got mapnik2...
18:04 pierregiraud: it looks like you're having troubles
18:05 dodobas: so i 'just' need to clone the repo and run it in production mode...
18:05 dodobas: pierregiraud: jsut the lack of time... sorry once again
18:05 pierregiraud: it's ok
18:06 dodobas: are there any other comments/issues you want to discuss ?
18:06 pierregiraud: not really
18:06 pierregiraud: once again, if someone wants to help, you're welcome
18:06 dodobas: so harry-wood, skorasaurus, ybon, pnorman , please continue
18:06 harry-wood: mentioned task manager in my diary entry here by the way: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Harry%20Wood/diary/20149
18:07 harry-wood: and the user psychology of 'mark the task as done'
18:07 pierzen: Psycho: yes they confuse ended and split!
18:08 harry-wood: mkl is off having a baby now I think. So he's got me to help with LearnOSM translation stuff
18:08 harry-wood: which isn't supposed to be "technical" but somehow is :-)
18:08 skorasaurus: harry-wood: nice diary post.
18:08 dodobas: :)
18:09 : alexbarth [~alexbarth@50-198-132-58-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] entered the room.
18:09 skorasaurus: you're one of the few who do them on a consisent basis :)
18:09 : alexbarth left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection).
18:09 harry-wood: what else technical? erm� Frederik fixed that a with the hot-exports, that uploads were failing
18:10 pierregiraud: those user tests feedback are important for me
18:10 dodobas: harry-wood: what are common issues with LearnOSM ?
18:10 skorasaurus: yeah, regarding not marking a task done. +1
18:11 : almccon left the room (quit: Quit: Leaving.).
18:11 skorasaurus: the issue, even myself that I experienced, is that, I figure there's someone who's more experienced with the lay of the land, the nuances of imagery for a particular area, so there may be stuff to add.
18:11 harry-wood: issues with learnOSM? Looks like decide on and apply a 'naming convention' for images
18:11 harry-wood: is one issue
18:12 harry-wood: Need to merge in Maning's work on walking papers-> field papers changover
18:12 harry-wood: then maybe we need to make translations better aligned with the english version
18:13 harry-wood: I don't think we need to do anything technically clever with it
18:13 dodobas: k, if there are no more comments, skorasaurus you are up next
18:13 skorasaurus: sure. ybon and I have continued to work on the HDM carto rendering.
18:13 skorasaurus: mostly ybon :)
18:14 skorasaurus: it's now available as a layer on the main website, a huge step and win for us.
18:14 skorasaurus: for increased visibility.
18:14 skorasaurus: and awareness.
18:14 harry-wood: yeah. great work on that
18:14 harry-wood: Heard anything from cquest about the hosting of it? All ticking over nicely?
18:14 pierzen: openstreetmap.js for openlayers should be updated for this layer
18:15 skorasaurus: initially there were problems regarding the cache.
18:15 skorasaurus: but I believe ybon and pnorman helped figure it out ?
18:15 pierzen: http://openstreetmap.org/openlayers/OpenStreetMap.js
18:15 skorasaurus: pierzen: interesting. I did not know about that.
18:16 pierzen: this way, it is simple to add a osm layer.
18:16 skorasaurus: there's still a few issues. one that was raised was about styling it as SLD.
18:16 dodobas: do we have a clear information about who is hosting rendering services for HDM, or any other tech. infrastrucure details
18:16 harry-wood: I notice openstreetmap.js doesn't have mapquest on there either though, so maybe it's not the idea to add more to it
18:16 skorasaurus: I understand some NGOs don't use tilemill yet and still use ARCGIS and/or qgis for their normal workflow.
18:17 skorasaurus: and don't go the way of mapnik.
18:17 skorasaurus: I am obviously biased to one, ybon likely is as well ;)
18:17 pierzen: harry-wood: if you dont add it, then you need a custom tms function.
18:17 skorasaurus: regarding hosting, I though that you dodobas ?
18:18 harry-wood: I added to my 'many layers' example here: http://harrywood.co.uk//maps/examples/openlayers/many-layers.view.html
18:18 dodobas: skorasaurus: not for HDM... so who is rendering the HDM ? OSM servers ? or ?
18:18 harry-wood: (inheriting from OpenLayers.Layer.OSM)
18:18 skorasaurus: dodobas: OSM-FR at the moment.
18:19 skorasaurus: but I don't know the long term status of it. ybon would know more.
18:19 skorasaurus: and has been the liaison.
18:19 dodobas: skorasaurus: and the tiles are distributed across the globe, like the OSM ?
18:19 skorasaurus: you mean the hosting or global coverage ?
18:20 : almccon [~almccon@173-164-158-185-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] entered the room.
18:20 dodobas: skorasaurus: well, OSM did create some proxy servers across the globe to lower the load on the London network infrastructure
18:20 dodobas: but I guess, every thing is hosted by osm-fr
18:20 skorasaurus: HDM tiles are worldwide, expect for the CGIAR coverage (elevation)
18:20 harry-wood: I don't think Firefishy added it into the OSM caching mechanisms. It's just served of the osm-fr server. Could be wrong.
18:21 : mkl left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 480 seconds).
18:21 skorasaurus: I think we're waiting for additional hardware for expanding the elevation coverage.
18:21 dodobas: ok, anything else or we move on to ybon ?
18:21 ybon: sorry, I've been pulled away, I'm back
18:21 harry-wood: There's no 'Tile Usage Policy' put forward bye cquest yet I assue
18:22 harry-wood: assume
18:22 harry-wood: Sooner or later the mobile apps will start hammering this server and he'll have to be ready to start blocking people
18:22 skorasaurus: don't forget too, there's also the HDM-JOSM mapping style as well. that's relatively stable at the moment, though there's still a few bugs fixes, especially with the design
18:23 dodobas: well, depending on the need... we can either move some of the load to the nwe HOT Server @ Hetzner... and i can 'ask' on the faculty in Zagreb
18:24 dodobas: 'ask' = i would just do it if we need to.. as we have a nice gigabit connection
18:24 skorasaurus: :)
18:24 : almccon1 [~almccon@173-164-158-185-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] entered the room.
18:25 dodobas: do ybon, so you want to add anything
18:25 ybon: so as for now, OSM-fr tiles server is very quiet
18:25 ybon: just finished to backlog :)
18:25 ybon: I can give you the contact for the server if needed, dodobas
18:26 ybon: but you can find this information somewhere in the wiki
18:26 ybon: let me find the page
18:26 harry-wood: Think it was this server: http://munin.openstreetmap.fr/free.org/osm13.openstreetmap.fr/index.html#system
18:26 ybon: yes it is
18:26 harry-wood: had a bit of CPU busy day today actually
18:27 ybon: here is more info about OSM-fr infrastructure
18:27 ybon: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Servers
18:28 ybon: Jocelyn is the main sysadmin, and currently in holidays for one month
18:28 : CanoeBerry [CanoeBerry@18.189.58.244] entered the room.
18:28 ybon: others are cquest and sly
18:28 : almccon left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 480 seconds).
18:28 dodobas: cquest sly ?
18:28 ybon: but about setting up cache servers, you want to talk to Jocelyn
18:28 harry-wood: Even with fairly massive capacity, the 'standard' tile server has needed some clever anti-abuse mechanisms. Jon Burgess & Firefishy have got pretty smart with this over the years, so cquest will hopefully get them to suggest solutions if they scrapers start coming
18:28 ybon: other nicks of sysadmins ;)
18:28 ybon: we already had scrappers ;)
18:29 harry-wood: It's mainly mobile apps offering offline download which create issues apparently
18:30 harry-wood: MOBAC was one of these. Interestingly MOBAC is also an app the MapAction guys have come across and used during field work. So it's evilâ�¦ but also quite handy! :-)
18:31 dodobas: ok, everything works, yey :)
18:31 : pierregiraud left the room (quit: Quit: pierregiraud).
18:32 dodobas: pnorman, pierzen, do you want to discuss/share/comment on something?
18:33 harry-wood: dodabas What d'you think about adding Nepal to hot exports?
18:33 harry-wood: seems like something we should get Frederik to do
18:33 ybon: Does someone has some experience feedback about cartocss to SLD migration?
18:34 pierzen: dodobas: NO
18:34 harry-wood: ybon: what's SLD?
18:34 dodobas: harry-wood: well, with the current setup, it should be easy enough to add a new region...
18:34 pierzen: just no, problem with my keyboarad
18:34 dodobas: (not that i've wver done that)
18:35 skorasaurus: ybon: I was looking at the UNHCR's fork of cartocss last night.
18:35 skorasaurus: saw that they did some work of restyling it in qgis
18:35 dodobas: the system basically updates the region OSM files with OSM minutely diffs
18:35 dodobas: which are updated every 7-15min
18:35 ybon: harry-wood: stylesheet for qgis more or less
18:36 harry-wood: aha. Styled Layer Descriptor
18:36 ybon: skorasaurus: ah yeah, I've seen your comment, but not looked at their branch
18:36 dodobas: harry-wood: so either someone need to bug frederik... or I can try to set it up
18:36 ybon: yeah, certainly, I have not experience at all on this side
18:37 dodobas: however, we should get an executive decision, right ?
18:38 dodobas: if nobody else wants to comment, I can share what I've done
18:38 dodobas: ?
18:38 harry-wood: dodobas: Well we talked about adding regions in general terms because of the performance impacts. I guess theres a .poly file that osmosis uses. �but there's also a kml and a database record used by the web interface for showing regions on a map. Dunno if there's a way to change all region definitions in just one place.
18:39 harry-wood: All said and done� it's a bit tricky
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18:39 dodobas: harry-wood: probably you just need to use a big hammer :)
18:39 : ian29 [~ian29@50-198-132-58-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] entered the room.
18:40 harry-wood: probably :-)
18:40 : ian29 left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection).
18:41 : ian29 [~ian29@50-198-132-58-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] entered the room.
18:41 dodobas: so.., I've setup a satellite mailer on the ameila (new server) which uses gmail to send mail
18:42 dodobas: there are some minor annoyances... like you need to define virtual/alternate email addresses to be able to send as a differnt person
18:43 ybon: what is a satellite mailer?
18:43 pierzen: from satellite :)
18:43 dodobas: basically there is hotmailer@hotosm.org which is used for mails... but is you want to send emails as i.e. server@hotosm.org you need to add it to the hotmailer alternate email address list, and confirm that you are the owner
18:44 dodobas: in a 'normal' system, you could forge the From mail header to whatever you want
18:44 dodobas: satellite mailer... just forwards all mails to the proper mailing system
18:45 : mkl [~mikel@c-68-50-131-97.hsd1.dc.comcast.net] entered the room.
18:45 dodobas: so you don't need to configure/maintaing a mail service per server, one can just forward mail to a proper mailing server...
18:46 ybon: ah ok
18:46 dodobas: i got half-baked setup for tasking-manager2
18:47 dodobas: i got wonderchook to add tasks-v2-dev.hotosm.org to the DNS... so it will be available at that address
18:47 harry-wood: cool
18:48 dodobas: and... I've also created a TMS/WMS service for Hai Phong area
18:48 dodobas: basically mapserver + mapproxy
18:48 dodobas: http://haiphong.hotosm.org/
18:48 : xamanu [~xamanu@irc.consciente.de] entered the room.
18:49 dodobas: there were minor issues with imagery data... I did not know that QuickBird imagery has BRGN channels...
18:50 : om-SBTF left the room (quit: Quit: om-SBTF).
18:50 dodobas: Blue-Red-Green-NearInfrared
18:50 dodobas: but it's easy to convert it to RGB with gdal
18:51 : jgc [~jgc@37.161.67.3] entered the room.
18:51 dodobas: there was no issues, other then one guy who 'mirrored' the imagery :)
18:51 dodobas: he created ~ 90000 requests during the day
18:52 ybon: ouch
18:53 dodobas: issues... well i need to contact Kristen to create a separate admin access for the Hetnzer management interface
18:54 dodobas: i need to get tasks2 working... then move tasks from the Amazon...
18:55 harry-wood: Good to see we're keeping you busy :-)
18:55 dodobas: set up SDS service... and bug/beg Schuyler to give me access to Mapmill... and see if we need/should host it on the ameila
18:56 dodobas: and in the future... set up maposmatic and fieldpapers...
18:57 dodobas: new Drupal7 website is in the works... http://www-dev.hotosm.org/
18:57 dodobas: but i did not hear anything new from clara, lately...
18:57 skorasaurus: ybon, any idea when global DEM will be available ?
18:58 ybon: skorasaurus: no
18:58 ybon: sadly
18:58 ybon: administrative and economic things
18:58 ybon: I'm not on this circle
18:58 skorasaurus: ah, okay.
18:59 ybon: I thought in August we were close to get the new SSD, but no
19:00 dodobas: if no one wants to add anything else, we can wrap it up... for this week
19:01 dodobas: next meeting will be on the 21st, this month
19:01 dodobas: thank you for comments and updates
19:01 dodobas: I'll post the log to the wiki
19:02 ybon: ok for me
19:02 ybon: will certainly point up SDL again next time ;)
19:03 ybon: SLD*
19:04 harry-wood: dodobas I can post the log via my format converter thingy
19:04 skorasaurus: sounds good.
19:05 dodobas: harry-wood: if you can add it to the wiki, that would be gr8