Humanitarian OSM Team/Working groups/Technical/meeting 2014-02-10

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Meeting to discuss Tech topics on Monday 10th February 2014

IRC log:

18:25:52< dodobas> ybon: what have you been doing ?
18:26:36< pierregiraud> wrong about the date of the tech meeting?
18:26:46< ybon> a little bit #umap and #ubuntutouch weeks for me
18:26:54< ybon> nothing to report on hot side, sadly :(
18:26:55< pierzen|2> this is the timeanddate that converted wrongly. 17:00 == 12:00 EST
18:27:16< dodobas> you pasted a link for 2011.4.15 :)
18:27:29< pierregiraud> fucking google
* pierregiraud is really sorry 18:27
18:28:23< dodobas> is that because google doesn't want to pay french internet tax... so you get bad results ? :)
18:28:36< pierregiraud> lol
18:28:59< dodobas> ybon: are you still in Africa?
18:29:00< pierzen|2> they are an hour late in ireland!
18:29:22< ybon> dodobas: parisian Africa ;)
18:29:32< pierzen|2> palm trees?
18:29:35< harry-wood> hello
18:29:37< dodobas> oo... in the slums..
18:29:40< dodobas> hi harry-wood
18:30:40< dodobas> so.. maybe I should just start...
18:30:53< dodobas> we got tasking manager V2 back up again... http://tasksv2.dev.hotosm.org/
18:31:05< pierzen|2> back to the future?
18:31:15< dodobas> pierregiraud: will say a few words about it
18:31:38< pierregiraud> I'll do
18:31:39< pierzen|2> working nicely anyway
18:31:50< dodobas> i DID NOT update the wiki, and I promis I'll do it :) again :)
18:32:04< pierregiraud> which WIKI?
18:32:19< dodobas> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team/Working_groups/Technical
18:32:55< dodobas> last time we talked a lot about documenting... not sure if anyone did anything
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18:33:25< dodobas> and clara was working on multilingual www.hot site
18:33:47< dodobas> can anyone confirm that that is actually in production ?
18:35:04< dodobas> pierregiraud: can you talk about TMv2 ?
18:35:11< pierregiraud> ok
18:35:27< pierregiraud> well the instance has just been re installed by dodobas
18:35:47< pierregiraud> it's still as incomplete as it was several weeks ago
18:36:00< pierregiraud> you can play with it and ask me for admin rights
18:36:16< pierregiraud> nothing has changed actually
18:36:28< pierregiraud> but people can go and play a bit
18:36:38< pierregiraud> geojson import is broken for now
18:36:48< pierregiraud> but translations are working apparently
18:36:59< pierregiraud> this is for v2
18:37:17< dodobas> pierregiraud: are there any news on the future development of tmv2 ?
18:37:42< pierregiraud> we actually had a talk with Mikel end of last week
18:38:10< pierregiraud> he and others hope we can find funds to help moving on with the v2
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18:38:38< pierregiraud> he asked to list the features of the v1 in order to know what needs to be done
18:38:56< pierregiraud> https://github.com/pgiraud/osm-tasking-manager2/wiki/V1-Features-List
18:39:38< pierregiraud> it's difficult to know if we should stop adding things to v1 or trying to switch to v2 as soon as possible
18:39:52< pierregiraud> s/or/and
18:40:09< pierzen|2> On my side also, people expressed interest in funding TM development. New features to list.
18:40:46< dodobas> do you plan to migrate tmv1 data ?
18:40:55< pierregiraud> I hope
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18:41:26< pierregiraud> I'll do as much as possible to retrieve data from v1
18:41:26< dodobas> ok... pierregiraud you are a sole developer of tm1 and tm2... is that right ?
18:41:34< pierregiraud> not really
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18:41:50< pierregiraud> but actually, I worked on more than 95% of the code yes
18:42:07< pierregiraud> some contributors already know how the code works
18:42:15< dodobas> let me rephrase that... you were the only one paide directly ?
18:42:23< dodobas> *paid
18:42:31< pierregiraud> corect
18:42:34< dodobas> ok
18:42:53< pierregiraud> it was at the very beginning of the project
18:43:00< dodobas> do you know any developers who might be interested in working with tmv2 ?
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18:43:29< pierregiraud> some devs contributed time to time
18:44:16< dodobas> ok.. it's good to know there are some developments around TM
18:45:04< dodobas> harry-wood: do you have anything to report ?
18:45:51< harry-wood> As mentioned on the mailing list, I liked the idea of stripping out the TM validation feature
18:46:01< harry-wood> but lots of voices complaining about that so...
18:46:08< pierzen|2> TM has progressed a lot with Pierre over the last year, helped to escalate for Philippines. thanks to pierre for this.
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18:46:27< pierzen|2> And this question of Validation, have the be re-think, needs more contributors.
18:46:47< pierregiraud> harry-wood: validation is back again  ;-)
18:46:55< pierregiraud> but one can invalidate a validated task
18:46:56< dodobas> so should I read that thread? :)
18:47:28< harry-wood> My suggestion now would be… Maybe we can make the feature fade away a bit.
18:47:58< harry-wood> For example Red vs Green is a very stark difference of colour. Maybe it could be Orange -> Red
18:48:49< harry-wood> Ultimate thing could be some sort of "show validation" option
18:49:00< harry-wood> hidden away somewhere to avoid new users getting confused by it
18:49:22< pierregiraud> nice suggestion
18:49:33< harry-wood> but it's all more development for you :-)
18:49:57< pierzen|2> We often do not use it when we prepare a task, no instructions. Could it be an option to select by the creator of the task to see the validation button?
18:50:23< harry-wood> yeah. Part of the job design process could be to enable / disable the validation step
18:50:42< harry-wood> that's nice because it takes things in the direction of flexible workflows
18:51:47< harry-wood> I imagine (in the future) the job design process could also involve designing workflow steps so that job A pipes it's input into job B
18:52:36< harry-wood> so for example you make a job A to "map just road network". As people complete those squares they come available to job B "map all the buildings"
18:53:15< pierregiraud> I like that suggestion too
18:53:36< pierregiraud> and this is something I have been thinking about too
18:54:32< pierregiraud> but this feature is difficult to code probably
18:55:18< dodobas> can we turn this into feature proposals on github ?
18:55:21< pierzen|2> Not to forget complexity with many tasks to follow like for Haiyan Typhoon, we need to think about monitoring tools for coordinator teams.
18:56:06< harry-wood> It seems like the kind of thing we need. For example last night I took a look at Bolivia. Somebody had mapped every building in this square for example: http://tasks.hotosm.org/job/419#task/20952/30040/16 Must've taken then a long time ….and yet I pan down to here: http://tasks.hotosm.org/job/419#task/20953/30038/16 ….and there's a missing river through the city! (Not great when we're supposed to be doing flood mapping!)
18:56:42< dodobas> hehe
18:56:48< harry-wood> Because people always want to spend ages on a mapping every detail of their square… it can be it detracts from what's actually important
18:57:34< pierzen|2> Yes, this you have to look, or major elements like that should often be mapped independantly by experienced mappers. But if nothing is done, Plus Analyze statistics of contributions vs squares marked as done.
18:57:48< harry-wood> Breaking out of the "map every detail" mentality is a challenge
18:57:50< dodobas> techically it could be done by plugging into overpass api.. or more strongly to create JOSM plugin like 'Do not map'
18:58:57< dodobas> but probably not easy :)
18:59:30< pierzen|2> Not that bad, it is easy to interrogate Overpass with python for a bbox. this is what a box is.
18:59:56< dodobas> is anyone coming to http://www.citizencyberscience.net/ ?
19:00:06< pierzen|2> Then, we could have statistics vs all squares marked as done, plus stats maybe by mapper vs average.
19:00:27< pierzen|2> This could help detect problems.
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19:01:01< harry-wood> dodabas: hmm . Came across this before. It clashes with Open Data day
19:01:11< harry-wood> but more importantly it clashes with my stag do :-)
19:01:32< dodobas> harry-wood: don't do it... :)
19:01:56< harry-wood> no no. The stag do must be done
19:01:59< harry-wood> no getting out of it
19:02:21< dodobas> ah, but you made plans to 'visit' Argentina after the stag ? :)
19:03:36< harry-wood> yes. I reckon I might get away with a Buenos Aires trip
19:03:56< dodobas> i'm having trouble fiding decent ~80€ accommodation in London Center... :)
19:05:32< dodobas> I should be around UCL... or should I get a bit further out and just tube to the center?
19:07:14< harry-wood> Ah. I'd offer to put you up but… I'll be off on my stag do.
19:08:29< dodobas> no worries... I'm not familiar with London morning traffic ?
19:08:36< dodobas> is it 'ok' ?
19:08:43< harry-wood> I always struggle to recommend hotels. Maybe this place: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/51.52766/-0.12901 (walking distance)
19:10:29< dodobas> no worries... but you would not recoomend to experience London traffic in the morning  ? :)
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19:12:14< pierzen|2> Thoughts following Haiyan Activation.
19:12:15< pierzen|2>
19:12:15< pierzen|2> Images used for post-processing were not of high quality with probably weather problems. UAV's could have provided more flexibily especially to map places like Tacloban.
19:12:15< pierzen|2>
19:12:15< pierzen|2> Such UAV's images were offered to us but more then a month after the event. It would make the difference in such events to have planned such activities, to have people ready to deploy right at the beginning and have the capacity to process these images rapidly.
19:12:15< pierzen|2>
19:12:17< pierzen|2> Field team collection data is also increasing and new smartphones tool are available. Some interests have been expressed about tools such as Field Paper on a Tablet.
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19:15:10< pierregiraud> I have to go guys, buy
19:15:20< pierregiraud> bye
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19:15:31< pierzen|2> salut pierre
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19:17:12< harry-wood> dodobas: experience london traffic? Depends what you mean by experience
19:17:22< harry-wood> You don't want to be bringing a car. That sucks
19:18:02< harry-wood> cycling is alright. UCL is on the cycling super-highway!
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19:18:42< dodobas> harry-wood: tube or walking...  :)
19:18:54< dodobas> well... public transport :)
19:18:57< harry-wood> If you want to plan a "commute" to the conference from a more distant hotel, I'd recommend tfl.gov.uk to see what the journey time will be. It's usually quite accurate
19:19:41< dodobas> harry-wood: awesome
19:19:43< harry-wood> Or http://journeymapper.org if you'd like a more map-based interface :-)
19:19:58< harry-wood> be sure to switch to the "OSM" base map! :-D
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19:24:54< sev_hotosm> great the v2 is back!
19:25:31< pierzen|2> hi sev_hotosm
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19:26:30< pierzen|2> yes, one good feature about many, we can follow each contributor vs squares completed
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19:28:17< sev_hotosm> no validation step?
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19:31:53< pierzen|2> which instance url are-you talking about?
19:34:05< pierzen|2> sev_hotosm: Discussion before, I was suggesting that Validation could be an option to select, giving more flexibility in the workflow.
19:34:18< sev_hotosm> ah ok
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19:47:52< sev_hotosm> ah OK
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20:10:53< skorasaurus> did I miss the tech working group?
20:10:59< skorasaurus> 17UTC.
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20:11:06< skorasaurus> argh.
20:11:08< skorasaurus> yeah,
20:11:28< skorasaurus> darn time zones. ;)
20:11:51< skorasaurus> in my head, I thought it was now ;)
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20:19:47< pierzen|2> yes skorasaurus, you missed. There was some confusion, people thought that 17:00 utc was 13:00 EST. It was 12:00 and we started at 12:30. I'll send you the log.
20:24:43< dodobas> skorasaurus: you can still talk if you have anything to report
20:37:05< skorasaurus> no problem.
20:37:20< skorasaurus> if anyone has any feedback on the HDM Josm and HDM map, I'd be happy to hear it.
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20:50:11< jaakkoh_> skorasaurus (And ybon too / more?), regarding the HDM map. Not a development process feedback but just floating a feature request that I submitted as a ticket to Github already: Would be superb if we (in Nicaragua) could get the relatively new reference_point=* key to render. It's the core of the addressing system here and reference points are often considered on at least as important hierarchical level as neighborhoods. Sometimes higher. Would be nice if
20:50:11< jaakkoh_> those could show on the map (e.g. like neighourhoods).
20:50:26< jaakkoh_> Is this a ybon issue solely or are there others who know how to tweak the style?
20:50:54< skorasaurus> jaakkoh_, I could likely do it as well.
20:51:11< skorasaurus> would you want it show up at the level of place=neighbourhood ?
20:51:57< jaakkoh_> I think that would be good. .. I'll check how it looks (moment)..
20:53:48< jaakkoh_> That seems good. http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2410534749#map=16/12.0989/-86.2563&layers=H
20:54:17< jaakkoh_> Could be without all caps, though. But if just copying that is easier then it's just ok getting started with it.
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20:55:30< jaakkoh_> We currently have only =yes as an official value but I'm pretty sure that we'll get some other values to it over time (such as major, minor, old, etc). So as of now it would probably be best to render any names of objects that have reference_point=* in them.
20:56:59< mkl> great to see v2 up and running for evaluation
20:57:02< mkl> and the v1 feature list
20:57:19< dodobas> o hi mkl ....
20:57:30< jaakkoh_> .. and skorasaurus : An additional thing is that there are many reference points that have other "POI tags" that should always get priority in rendering: shop=, amenity=, leisure=, office=, tourism=, historic=, man_made=, etc. ..
20:57:32< mkl> pgiraud, is that v1 list all "essential" features? which of these are complete?
20:57:51< mkl> hi dodobas, i'm not late due to timezone, but due to family :)