Talk:Accessibility

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Consolidation and Enhancement of disability tags

Reason: The tags to describe information relevant for disabled persons are divided on some wiki pages and are not coordinated in all cases. We want to collect them at this page, tag them and discuss about possible tag-variations and missing tags.

traffic island for pedestrians crossing a street

Situation: There are traffic islands for pedrestian crossing a steet without a traffic signal or in the middle of large streets.

Discussion (please feel free to participate!)

  • In which cases should the street be divided by lanes to build the room for the traffic island?
    • I would say, it's better to divide the street than to use more complicated tags. It's better to have more nodes describing single entities than to have one node for the crossing describing two single (lane-) crossings and the island in between. User:Jongleur
    • Always devide where devided. This is also helpful for visual representation and for avoiding "turn here" orders in navigations software for use in cars.--Lulu-Ann 15:57, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Should the traffic island be build as a node or as an area?
    • Both would be perfect: a way crossing the area for routing issues and additionally an area describing the geometry of the island. User:Jongleur
      • But with which tag would you want to represent the outline of the traffic island? --Lulu-Ann 15:57, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
  • How can the walking area on the crossing island be declared, that it can be identified by blind person with their blind stock.
    • My interpretation highway:crossing is, that nodes where two systems cross are tagged with it. So it's the intersection point between the car's lane and the pedestrian crossing. The Node at the island should in this meaning be tagged as "highway:footway; crossing:island;" or something like that (not sure at the moment) User:Jongleur
    • Which information is needed: "Is there a tactile difference between driving land and traffic island? Is there even a tactile paving guiding line for the blind? Is the curb lowered or high? Is it at 3cm, which is detectable for the blind and crossable for a wheelchair? Is there another pedestrian traffic signal, or is the first signal valid for both sides of the traffic island (usually not)? --Lulu-Ann 15:57, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Sloped_curb=yes is not enough for wheelchair-routing. At least we should prefer a distinction between zero curbs (ideally together with tactile paving to prevent danger for blind people), sloped curbs (in Germany that should be 3cm high) and non-sloped-curbs (aproximately 8-12cm, I think). The best would be real measuring, but I fear, that's far from reality because of the measuring problems. User:Jongleur
  • sloped_curbs should get an extra node at each side of the island (and at the borders of the street). Benefits: User:Jongleur
    • it's possible to calculate the depth of the island as distance between the nodes.
    • the part between the two sloped_curves can be seen as "save area"
    • we don't need to distinct between sloped_curb:left and sloped_curb:right, sloped_curbs are seen as a kind of barrier on the way.
    • sloped_curb:left and :right does not work here anyway, because sloped curbs are at the end of a way and a the beginning at another (change of surface forces splitting of ways).


  • How can we give the information if there is a bike lane along the pedestrian crossing? --Lulu-Ann 15:57, 9 May 2010 (UTC)


Pictures and current tagging

id picture tagging comments
1a Deutschland Verkehrsinsel Furt nicht ertastbar.JPG

crossing the street way from footway to footway: way highway=footway width=3.0

node on traffic island: node highway=crossing crossing=unmarked;island surface=asphalt sloped_curb=both tactile_paving=no wheelchair=yes nodes on both footways, where the crossing way starts and ends: sloped_curb=yes

  • what part of the traffic island to be define for the blind?
  • sloped_curb only defines the footway-side curbs
  • sloped_curb=one: not clear, which footway has slopd curbs
  • Should we also tag the left and right curbs, which could help the blind? They are about 0.1 m high.
1b Deutschland Verkehrsinsel Furt PflastersteinkanteJPG.jpg

sloped_curb=???

* how to tag the sloped curb at the crossing island? Its about 0.02 to 0.03 high, a single cross row of cobble stones.
1c detailed view of the surface of a different crossing island

Deutschland Verkehrsinsel Furt Detailsicht Betonplatten Pflastersteinkante.JPG

way from footway to footway crossing street: way

different tagging to 1a: surface=paving_stones

* how tag the sloped curb at the crossing island?

future models (for discussion)

id tagging discussion picture
alternative a - simple tagging
  • crossing the street way from footway to footway: way

highway=footway width=3.0

crossing=unmarked;island surface=asphalt sloped_curb=both tactile_paving=no wheelchair=yes

  • nodes on both footways, where the crossing way starts and ends: sloped_curb=yes
please feel free to discuss
alternative b - moderate tagging
  • please divide the street way into lanes for each direction
  • node on footway, where to start crossing footway to traffic island: node

sloped_curb=yes

  • crossing the street way from footway to island start way point: way

highway=footway

  • node on traffic island, arrival point of the way: node

highway=crossing sloped_curb=yes

  • way on traffic island to point arriving the island: way

highway=footway surface=asphalt tactile_paving=yes width=3.0

  • node on traffic island, point leaving the island: node

highway=crossing sloped_curb=yes

  • crossing the street way from island end way point: way

highway=footway

  • node on footway, where to start crossing footway to traffic island: node

sloped_curb=yes

please feel free to discuss (not currently available)
alternative c - full tagging
  • draw the outline of the crossing island as ways or closed-ways, which should normally not used (they have high curbs) as

curb=barrier

  • don't draw the passable way on the traffic island as complete area.

Instead draw the outline curbs, which marks the island area from the drivers lanes as: curb=no

  • node on footway, where to start crossing footway to traffic island: node

sloped_curb=yes Alternative: if there is a footway parallel to the road, split it for the length of the sloped curbs and add to the crossing length of the footway: sloped_curb=yes

  • way from footway to island start way point: way

highway=footway

  • way on traffic island to point leaving the island: way

highway=footway surface=asphalt tactile_paving=yes width=3.0

  • way from from island end way point to oposite footway: way

highway=footway

  • node on footway, where to start crossing footway to traffic island: node

sloped_curb=yes Alternative: if there is a footway parallel to the road, split it for the length of the sloped curbs and add to the crossing length of the footway: sloped_curb=yes

Alternative: if there is a footway parallel to the road, split it for the length of the sloped curbs and add to the crossing length of the footway: sloped_curb=yes

  • nodes on the connection points between the street and the crossing footway: node

highway=crossing crossing=unmarked island=yes

motivation: osm mappers tend to fully describe the reality. In this case, we provide them to draw the complete island and give them information for complete tagging. So it should not longer happen, that sometimes the crossing island will be draw completely outlined as hightway=footway, as seen short time ago and which is a very dangerous tagging for the blind.

In this case, we have to define the new way and closed-way type curb.

We could also define barrier=curb, in this case, we should not draw the lines which marks the island area from the drivers lanes. Thats like in picture 1b

  • open points

- highway=crossing still ab the two nodes, where street and the crossing ways are connected? Or better at the starting points on the footways, where the crossing way starts and ends?

Deutschland Verkehrsinsel Furt nicht ertastbar OSM Modell.png


tram platform

Situation: Tram platform with relevant elements

Discussion

pictures and sample tagging

id picture tagging comments
2a Straba Haltestelle taktileElemente Gelaender.jpg tram platform: way

railway=platform width=1.7 handrail:right=yes [1] tactile_paving=yes

tram entry point: node Template:Railway [2]

If there is no tactile paving line on the platform, but only a tactile paving point at the tram entry point:--Okilimu 12:16, 10 May 2010 (UTC) tactile_paving=yes [3]

* key crossing correct value or define a new value island or unmarked_island?
  • should we describe the high curb to the tram line?
  • [1] define handrail as described or as separate way with barrier=handrail
  • [2] tram_stop on tram way or on platform as entry point useable? Different models in osm wiki?
  • [3] tactile_paving=* on a platform entrance point is not needed - The tactile paving guides you better than the inaccurate GPS!

crossing ways between vehicles and pestrians, with traffic signals

placeholder: This issue will be filled in short time


wrong taggings

highway=traffic_signals should be used only between ways, where the crossing ways will be used by vehicles. This key-value combination is used wrong, when a way for vehicles is crossing a way for pedestrian. In this case, the tagging should be: highway=crossing crossing=traffic_signals, crossing_ref=*

This wrong tagging could be found automatically by quality assurance tools, like keepright. In this case, the rule would be (in normal language):

- look for nodes with highway=traffic_signals

-- check, if the node is only used by one way. If it is not permitted for vehicles, its incorrect.

-- check, if the node is only used by one way. If it is permitted for vehicles, but has no tags like crossing=*, its probably for crossing traffic, but has a wrong position (is has to be at the crossing node instead).

-- check, if the node is used by more than one way, but only one way can be used by vehicles. If there is the additional tagging crossing=traffic_signals, it should be instead: highway=crossing crossing=traffic_signals

-- check, if the node is used by more than one way, but only one way can be used by vehicles. If at least one of the other ways is for pedestrians, its correct tagging is probably highway=crossing crossing=*

In the cases, where we can define roles, we should make sure to bring this information into quality assurances tools like keepright.


Use british English

"Curb" is AE, in BE use "kerb". Please change this in the whole wiki where you can find it for consistency reasons. -- Dieterdreist 12:17, 21 September 2010 (BST)

Say how to make the words on the map bigger (for crying out loud)

The older user rolls his mouse wheel to zoom in... and the words momentarily become large enough to read... and then shrink back again to their small size with no choice for anybody in the matter. Jidanni (talk) 16:32, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Have added a bit to the page: Accessibility#Visual_impairment. --Aseerel4c26 (talk) 15:43, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
I recommend to use the operating system features to zoom any display content, as this is not a problem related only to maps. --Lulu-Ann (talk) 09:04, 20 September 2013 (UTC)