Talk:Proposed features/Fair trade

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Misuse

This is a misuse of shop=*. Fairtrade(TM) have many different types of shops and there is no need to tag a fairtrade shop differently from other shops. We don't tag wal-marts or any other shops differently. The way to tag fairtrade shops is with operator=fairtrade. As for the rendering we don't render the operators on the map. Companies pays commercial maps a lot of money to have their logos on the map. OSM does not arbitrarily give away free add space. Gnonthgol 11:44, 28 December 2009 (UTC)


I don't know if these shops exist in the same kind as they exist in Germany, but it is not meant as the trademark fairtrade who is operating the shop, it is more for shops that are only selling fair traded products. In Germany there are shops, often organized by students, churches, etc. that are only selling goods that are produced under the given guidelines. But they are not only from one organization or only from one company. They have a basis of products maybe from one suppllier, aside with products maybe from there sister church or similar. Therefore it is some kind of shop that right know can not be tagged properly. I have some examples that are showing the shop style I mean:
As you can see they are so called e.V.'s that is some kind of voluntary association in Germany and they are normally donate the money they are earning for projects regarding the fair trade concept. I hope that clears the thing a bit as we do not mean only a special sort of shops selling only one trademark or are operated by this trademark. Maybe it is better to change the word fairtrade to anything else to reduce the confusion, if their is a better noun to describe the type of shop.
Regarding the logo of fairtrade, you are right that it was not a good idea to use it as a representation on the map, but I found it at WP and added it to the proposal.
TobiBS 18:40, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
Then maby operator=* is the wrong to use on those shops. But it is still not a shop=fairtrade because it does not sell fairtrade. What are you going to tag a shop=conveniance that have all products marked as fairtrade, or only some of them. Using tagging them as shop=fairtrade is wrong because it looses information. You can no longer tell what type of store it is. And you can not tag shops that sells some fairtrade products. We have a lot of them around here.
And fairtrade is a bad word for it. Fairtrade is a certificate handed out by FLO. There are other certificates out there that have equal right to be tagged in OSM as fairtrade. Perhaps something like certificate=fairtrade Gnonthgol 23:01, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
According to your description, shop=charity+fairtrade=yes would be better tagging. But the same way it could open for tagging every product line of any shop, and that isn't achievable within the frame of OSM. --Skippern 23:12, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
I accept that fairtrade is not a good name for what we are meaning, it was proposed like this, therefore if there is a better name, feel free to change it if you have better suggestions. I think the FLO was just wise enough to take the main name for it as a trademark.
I think the tagging proposed by Skippern is OK and I accept your contra regarding product lines of other shops, but as it is the main purpose of these shops to sell fair traded products, like a shop for do it yourself articles or a comptuer store. This was the idea of the former idea tagging it as shop=fairtrade.
TobiBS 11:47, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
shop=charity+fairtrade=yes sounds like a reasonable proposal, since those tags describe the character of most fairtrade shops (in my epxerience) pretty well. --Quazgar 21:50, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
I like it. But i would use shop=charity + brand=fairtrade like fuel stations and other shops. Maybe we should change the proposal. --Gnonthgol 08:49, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
I understand that shop=fairtrade is not clear enough in international context. Though I, personally, see it comparable to shop=organic and shop=second_hand. These tags characterize the goods they sell without saying what exactly it is (2nd hand shops might sell furniture as well as clothing). Would it be helpful to call the tag "fair_trade" to make clear it's not the brand or trademark, but the shop's character? Or is this too quibbling? The idea of this tag is to mark shops that are specialized on selling fair trade products, not to tag any shop that sells some fair trade goods besides others. That's why I think "fair trade" is suitable for OSM indeed (referring to Kslotte under "Fair trade for products"). --Tilsti 12:17, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
I think shop=fairtrade or shop=fair_trade is pretty much the most accurate thing. Any suggestions which writing should be preferred? --Soc 16:19, 22 October 2011 (BST)
As discussion is slow, maybe another proposal helps. How about tagging shop=fairtrade + e.g. operator=oxfam for a shop run by Oxfam and operator=churchname for a shop run by a church. --Tilsti 21:32, 13 January 2012 (UTC)


Fair trade for products

Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_trade As I have understood this "fair trade" concept it is about product certication, not company/shop certification. So, we don't map products in OSM, we map shops.

Then maybe someone want to map shops that sells Fair trade products. Where goes the limit when someone is a "fair trade" shop? Taking also into consideration the product changes done through a shops life cycle makes this even harder.

So, my conclusion is that "fair trade" is not suitable for OSM. --Kslotte 19:44, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Fairtrade Labelling Organization (as other labeling organizations) does certify shops if all their products are fairtrade(tm). They are allowed to use the fairtrade(tm) mark in the marketing of their shops and not just in their fairtrade(tm) products. --Gnonthgol 08:25, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
As pointed out above, on one hand "fair trade" is a product certification, but it is - at least in Germany - also a description of shops like "2nd hand". Can anybody state, whether this is really a special German kind of shop? --Tilsti 21:20, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

A plea for a tag (combination)

Given all the discussions above, I still would like a (combination of) tag(s) to show a fair trade shop. I would like to be able to see a fair trade shop in OSM. Let me summarize - maybe this clarifies the situation. (This might be partly specific to Germany - but I'm searching how to tag for German OSM anyway.

Why does it need some special tag (combination):

  1. The shops are often run by (unpaid) volunteers. (In fact all the shops I know are this way)
  2. The gain they make is given away as donation.
  3. The assortment of goods sold is quite specific - and on the other hand doesn't fit to the normal shops. Typically it consists of
    • Coffee, Tea
    • chocolate, honey
    • spicery
    • craftwork
  1. There is a tag "shop=charity" but that doesn't fit.
  2. I personally prefer buying my coffee and tea as fair trade products - so I would like being able to search for a shop in my navigation handheld using OSM.

Some notes on the arguments given:

  • "operator=fairtrade": This is not the point. It's about what is sold for what purpose behind it. It's not about who runs the shop.
  • "shop=fairtrade is wrong because it looses information": This would be fine with me - if it would get rendered. There might be enough shops which sell *some* fair trade labelled products. But this is another thing and probably would get much too detailed.
  • "Where goes the limit when someone is a "fair trade" shop? Taking also into consideration the product changes done through a shops life cycle makes this even harder." Here in Germany I don't see a big problem identifying a "fair trade shop" as such, if I see it. Because it is most often operated by volunteers, it will not change too much - or the way of running it will break down completely. Yes this might change during the lifetime of the shop - but OSM needs to track this for other shops as well.

--Mjost (talk) 14:10, 23 December 2013 (UTC)