Talk:Proposed features/Meadow=orchard

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Current documentation

The english wiki pages contain few words on meadow orchards, but the german pages are quite clear:

Locker mit Obstbäumen besetzte, s.g. Streuobstwiesen sind ebenfalls 'meadow'. Im Gegensatz zu regelmässig gepflegtem landuse=orchard (= Obstplantagen dichtbesetzt mit Bäumen), bei denen die Nutzung als Weide oder Heuwiese kaum mehr möglich, oder von bloß untergeordneter Bedeutung ist. Moderne Obstbäume ('orchard') werden alle gespritzt, das Gras darunter kann nicht mehr verfüttert werden!


Roughly occupied with fruit trees, meadows orchards are also 'meadow'. In contrast to regular cultivated landuse=orchard (= orchards densely covered with trees), where the use as pasture or hay meadow is hardly possible any more, or is merely of subordinate importance. Modern fruit trees ('orchard') are all sprayed, thus the grass underneath can not be fed!

Das gilt auch für alte Streuobstwiesen die man besser mit 'meadow' taggt weil hier die Nutzung von Gras als Weideland oder Heuwiese im Vordergrund stand, und das Obst nur ein Nebenprodukt war. 'orchard' (Obstgarten oder Obstplantage) ist ständig bewirtschaftetes, landwirtschaftliches Kulturland (und in waldreichen Regionen gegen Wildtierverbiß meist eingezäunt). 'meadow' ist jede Form, auch nur sehr gelegentlich (extensiv) genutzter Weide, auf der aus alter Zeit noch einige Bäume herumstehen.


This also applies to old meadow orchards, which one should rather tag with 'meadow' because there the use of the grass as pasture or hay meadow had priority, and the fruit was just a byproduct. 'orchard' (orchard or fruit plantation) is continuously farmed, agricultural cultivated land (and in wooded areas usually fenced against game bite). 'meadow' is any form of, even very occasionally (extensive) unused pasture, where some trees from former times are standing.

Current tagging practice

In my region (just north of Ulm, South Germany) real orchards are hardly existing, whereas meadow orchards are common. The tagging actual done is landuse=orchard, with the reason, to be able to distinguish them from normal meadows. A collision with real orchards is not relevant. This tagging is contrary with the documentation in the wiki.

This is an indication that an appropriate tagging for meadow orchards is necessary.

TODO: How are meadow orchards currently tagged elsewhere?

In my region (Münster, Germany) meadow orchards are mostly tagged as landuse=orchard. I think the reason is the same than in your case or everywhere else: To distinguish it from normal meadows. One major reason why a special tagging for meadow orchards is neccessary.
If you do a search for "Streuobstwiese" in the openstreetmap-Website, you can see that 2/3 of all meadow orchars (tagged with a note or comment "Streuobstwiese") are tagged as landuse=orchard.
-- StupidFlanders 18:30, 01 March 2016 (UTC)

Alternative tagging to the one in the proposal

The proposal suggests to tag meadow orchards as:


or a variant in the same style.

Although most meadow orchard in my region are currently tagged as landuse=orchard, I think that landuse=meadow should be the primary tag (this is in line with the description in the wiki).

As sub-tag I suggest to use trees=*, thus:


A more specific value for trees=* could be used, see:

Rationale: A meadow becomes a meadow orchard if we add trees. ;-)

trees=* is already available as part of landuse=orchard, hence no new tag needs to be defined.

Only the general value of 'yes' should be added, which in the orchard case was unnecessary.

--Meillo (talk) 19:30, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

Using the trees-Tag is a good idea! But I would prefer using the meadow-Key for tagging a meadow orchard. Reason for that ist: There are even more types of meadows, which we could tag in the same way. For example:

I think we should use the meadow-key the same way as the wetland-key or the grassland-key: To specify the type. What do you think?
--StupidFlanders 18:42, 01 March 2016 (UTC)
That's okay for me. It's a more general approach. --Meillo (talk) 12:40, 14 March 2016 (UTC)