Talk:Tag:historic=castle

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Pls, don't use this extra tag castle_type for one historic=castle... better use uni tag type=* This can be used for better specs any historic=* --Jezevec 12:48, 14 July 2011 (BST)

I disagree. A more specific tag is less ambiguous. --Nop 18:12, 14 July 2011 (BST)
Type is out of question because of multipolygon. --Jojo4u (talk) 16:08, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

building=yes

Should building=yes added since castles are buildings?--Jojo4u (talk) 16:09, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

That would depend on the structure. If the 'castle' was tagged as a way and that way is a wall that is simply the outer barrier .. then it would not be tagged whit building, barrier would be a better tag to use there. If the 'castle' was tagged as a way and that way is a building then yes you could use the building tag. Warin61 (talk) 21:39, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

The use of historic=castle on things that are not castles

The description says "A fortified building in medieval and modern times" but the discussion below goes on to talk about things that are _not_ castles (palaces, manor houses, etc.). Obviously (as noted) part of this is due to the mismatch between in meanings between the words "Burg", "Schloss" and "Castle", but I suspect that a wider discussion of what people are using "historic=castle" (and also "castle_type") for would help everyone. --SomeoneElse (talk) 13:04, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

  • Using this not only for castles is IMHO a very bad idea for tag named "historic=castle" Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 18:49, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
The description/definition is broad. From wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle I would have "A defensive fortified residence, with high outer walls that provide additional features for defence e.g. arrow slits". I would have no limits on the time period, or the place. A normal 'manor', 'stately home' and a normal 'palace' are NOT castles. The original building= http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/building mentions castles and palaces. Buckingham Palace in London is tagged building=yes not castle! I think building= tag is much more appropriate for these. Warin61 (talk) 23:12, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

the current definition is completely pointless

  • why does it restrict the period to the middle ages?
  • it restricts the region to europe and middle east, but there are dedicated castle types for other regions like japan
  • it says the castle can be fortified or not, so that part can be removed completely without loosing anything

--Dieterdreist (talk) 23:39, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

I agree. The old definition was better. Also I am not sure that castle_type=* is really currently under discussion. I thought that it was De facto for a long time. Chrabroš (talk) 05:39, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

Sorry for the upset. I have no problems expanding the definition again. The distinction fortified/non-fortified is to make clear that the OSM definition of castle deviates from the layman definition. It could also give impetus to create another tag for non-fortified "castles". I'm thinking of: A castle is fortified residence of a lord or noble mostly built in Europe and the Middle East during the Middle Ages. There are also instances built in other regions and later times.--Jojo4u (talk) 16:28, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

I have a better idea: Just list the structures which fall under the definition. There is not much in common for all the types. The old definition (Castles are usually residential and often fortified buildings from medieval and modern times..) is awful, a "residential building from modern times" could be anything! --Jojo4u (talk) 16:35, 22 April 2017 (UTC)
I created a new section, when deemed ok it should replace the top.--Jojo4u (talk)
Thank you for trying to resolve the issue, but I feel we would be better off to start with the long standing version and see what can be improved. The wikipedia article on castles from which you copied the main definition is quite weak and does not cover the types of castles that we have in OSM (and of which btw. some are also in WP called castles, like the japanese ones). This is a very complex topic, and we do have all kinds of places in this category, have a longer look at castle_type=* to see what I mean. It's not just de:Schloss and de:Burg which are already completely different kinds of structures, but a lot more. --Dieterdreist (talk) 22:27, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
Did you have a look at the article recently? :) Feel free to add at the new section.--Jojo4u (talk) 21:29, 25 April 2017 (UTC)
I have changed the general definition to be more inclusive now. It simply isn't true that the main tag castle is used principally for medieval defensive structures, this would exclude all later palaces and castles, as well as the Roman castra and the focalization on Europe and the Middle East would exclude Japan. Did you have a look at the very old excerpt from talk-de here: [1]? This gives some more insight on different kinds of castles. IMHO we should likely restructure this whole thing and put the sub-types on the main level. Why not have a main tag for shiros, roman castra, manors, stately homes, fortresses (there is military=fortress by the way), etc. There's not real benefit in introducing a structures hierarchy for things so different than these. I think a castle 2.0 is needed, preferably written by someone deeper into this topic than the occasional wikipedia reader. Please do not link to the castle wikipedia article on the current historic=castle tag, because this is really just describing a very small subset of what is tagged as castle in OSM.--Dieterdreist (talk) 21:02, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
I like this definiton. I hope it will last for some time. Chrabroš (talk) 05:23, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
I also like it, thanks!--Jojo4u (talk) 10:01, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
I also agree that more detailed tags would be useful. But most important is to have a tagging scheme for each feature, whether by sub-tagging nor not. This seems to be accomplished with only fortress needing more definition (will open discussion on that later). My goal was to make clear that historic=castle does not imply building=*.--Jojo4u (talk) 10:08, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

building=castle is not suitable for many typical castles

often a castle is an ensemble of buildings, not a single building. --Dieterdreist (talk) 23:41, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Of course, I never thought otherwise. It should be better documented, though.--Jojo4u (talk) 17:28, 22 April 2017 (UTC)