The State Of The Map/meeting log1

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[2007-01-17 19:59:42] <Blackadder> Everyone ready here to yap about the conference?
[2007-01-17 20:00:04] <Blackadder> If so please take a look at the agenda on  http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/The_State_Of_The_Map
[2007-01-17 20:00:34] <Blackadder> I propose we only discuss any item for a max of 10 mins
[2007-01-17 20:01:06] <Blackadder> The first items is: Target audience & Primary Aims
[2007-01-17 20:01:36] <Blackadder> SteveC: You in, you started this thing off, what did you have in mind?
[2007-01-17 20:04:03] * SteveC wakes up
[2007-01-17 20:04:23] <Blackadder> 5 mins left, say something quick ;-)
[2007-01-17 20:04:25] <SteveC> audience, mainly existing OSMers and geo people
[2007-01-17 20:04:44] <SteveC> perhaps some open hackery types new to maps specirfically
[2007-01-17 20:04:48] <Blackadder> How close to a Where 2.0 type event?
[2007-01-17 20:05:12] <SteveC> Where was pretty corporate so pretty far.. maybe half way between a carto conf and Where
[2007-01-17 20:05:33] -->| f_mohr (~frank@dslb-084-058-216-139.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #osm
[2007-01-17 20:05:34] <SteveC> aims, to bring the community together and talk lots, maybe map some of manchester too
[2007-01-17 20:05:49] <Blackadder> So we go beyond just OSM topics but limit the other topics perhaps to specific sessions/areas
[2007-01-17 20:05:57] <SteveC> and to figure out what we need to do to map the rest of the planet
[2007-01-17 20:06:14] <SteveC> a little outside OSM yeah... like mapnik isn't 100% OSM
[2007-01-17 20:06:16] <SteveC> for example
[2007-01-17 20:06:19] <Blackadder> Should that be our aim? How to map the rest of the planet?
[2007-01-17 20:06:27] <SteveC> its a good theme
[2007-01-17 20:06:38] <Blackadder> anyone else got a comment?
[2007-01-17 20:06:42] <nickb_ldn> So do you see at as more of a what we've done with OSM so far, how can we take it forward, rather than an extended debate 
on Free data?
[2007-01-17 20:07:04] <Miche2> creatin a cairo-based svg->bitmap-renderer?
[2007-01-17 20:07:05] <SteveC> I'm not one for the Free Data debate... more action less talk :)
[2007-01-17 20:07:12] <Miche2> so gpu-rendering hot-topic nowadays
[2007-01-17 20:07:26] <steve8> although it is being held in UK try to show somehow that OSM is global project
[2007-01-17 20:07:30] <Blackadder> The free data debate will always be there under the surface anyway
[2007-01-17 20:08:04] <SteveC> steve8, yeah we need to get as many people from abroad over as poss
[2007-01-17 20:08:14] <Blackadder> If the theme is how to map the whole planet then that makes it global
[2007-01-17 20:08:26] <nickb_ldn> The target audience will undboubtely be people interested in Free data - a large proportion anyway
[2007-01-17 20:08:42] <Blackadder> aggreed
[2007-01-17 20:08:49] <Blackadder> -g
[2007-01-17 20:08:59] <steve8> match talk with action though. some handson sessions. encourage people in and let them go away "enabled"
[2007-01-17 20:09:03] <SteveC> s/gg/g/g
[2007-01-17 20:09:17] <Blackadder> workshops is on the list for in a min
[2007-01-17 20:09:31] <Blackadder> ok, move on to next item?
[2007-01-17 20:09:38] <SteveC> yeah but one sec
[2007-01-17 20:09:45] <SteveC> anyone recording this chat?
[2007-01-17 20:09:46] <Blackadder> tick tock
[2007-01-17 20:09:48] <Blackadder> yes
[2007-01-17 20:09:53] <SteveC> ok, cool :)
[2007-01-17 20:10:02] <Blackadder> chatzilla log anyway
[2007-01-17 20:10:13] <Blackadder> Item 2: Session Format – Main hall only and/or less formal presentations.
[2007-01-17 20:10:39] <steve8> can you describe size(s) of areas if you know them?
[2007-01-17 20:10:45] <Blackadder> I dont know what the Uni has offered but I assume its the main hall plus the dining hall for anything else?
[2007-01-17 20:10:48] <nickb_ldn> How about poster/bring your own demo sessions in other places?
[2007-01-17 20:10:57] <_80n> what facilities do we actually have available at the venue?
[2007-01-17 20:10:57] <Blackadder> The main hall is a lecture theatre
[2007-01-17 20:11:19] <SteveC> martin asked what we wanted.. I suggested a main hall and break-out rooms
[2007-01-17 20:11:26] <Blackadder> The dining room is a big single room that can accommodate a small exhibition area as well as catering
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[2007-01-17 20:11:58] <Blackadder> Lest assume we can have main theatre plus some other small rooms/spaces
[2007-01-17 20:12:10] <_80n> how big?  100, 500, 1000?
[2007-01-17 20:12:35] <Blackadder> I'd say the main lecture theatre holds 200
[2007-01-17 20:12:43] <Blackadder> maybe a bit less
[2007-01-17 20:13:45] <steve8> Parallel activities to get more in on the day? Does mean people have to make choices and may miss stuff
[2007-01-17 20:14:01] <Veggen> hmf. Someone should start bora repositories.
[2007-01-17 20:14:03] <Blackadder> Do we think we can fill 8 sessions in the main theatre?
[2007-01-17 20:14:14] <Veggen> (oops, wrong channel)
[2007-01-17 20:14:28] <Blackadder> Steve8: Agreed
[2007-01-17 20:15:30] <Blackadder> How long for each presnetation? Half hour?
[2007-01-17 20:16:11] <SteveC> I think we can fill it... may be good to have half day one track, second half two track for both days?
[2007-01-17 20:16:36] <Blackadder> If we thought that the formal style presentations is too much we could make one of the sessions a workshop session
[2007-01-17 20:16:43] <steve8> Longer for workshop ones - 1 hour (Ok - just printed agenda so will try to keep on track)
[2007-01-17 20:17:27] <nickb_ldn> We should at least start and end each day with "keynote" style presentations, witheveryone in the same room, then split   off surin gthe day
[2007-01-17 20:17:49] <Blackadder> nickb_ldn: yep, that ensures everyone comes in on time
[2007-01-17 20:18:10] <steve8> Need a mix between formal and informal though - it is NOT an academic conference in my mind
[2007-01-17 20:18:34] <nickb_ldn> no, its not accademic by a long way, we are about getting things done
[2007-01-17 20:19:07] <Miche2> maybe it would be nice if some workshops could be recorded on video?
[2007-01-17 20:19:09] * _80n thinks we should have some "go out and do some mapping" sessions
[2007-01-17 20:19:15] <Miche2> Would be nice as promotional material too
[2007-01-17 20:19:20] <Blackadder> So a mixture of formal presentation (keynotes etc) and hands on stuff
[2007-01-17 20:19:34] <Blackadder> Miche2: I like that idea
[2007-01-17 20:19:46] * nickb_ldn agrees weith _80n
[2007-01-17 20:19:51] <Blackadder> Ok, all done? Next item?
[2007-01-17 20:19:55] <nickb_ldn> Blackadder: y
[2007-01-17 20:20:15] <Blackadder> 3. Workshops
[2007-01-17 20:20:19] <almien> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php?title=The_State_Of_The_Map/Notes1
[2007-01-17 20:20:32] <Blackadder> What type of workshops?
[2007-01-17 20:20:51] <Blackadder> GPS / JOSM / Databases / GIS....
[2007-01-17 20:21:07] <nickb_ldn> how to use postgis lol ;-0
[2007-01-17 20:21:09] <Miche2> If you do mapping sessions, it would be nice to al get some mapping sessions on tape. Like taking pictures of name plates,  ...
[2007-01-17 20:21:20] <nickb_ldn> serious, maybe setting up an OSM server session?
[2007-01-17 20:21:38] <Miche2> Influence of bad gps-signals on osm-data?
[2007-01-17 20:21:47] <Miche2> accuracy of osm-data?
[2007-01-17 20:21:55] <Blackadder> The area imediately around the Uni is done (I did it as part of Mapchester) but there is loads more within easy reach
[2007-01-17 20:22:08] <Blackadder> Miche2: Not a problem where the Hall is
[2007-01-17 20:22:18] <almien> get groups of people to tag their tracks in a workshop, so we can highlight common questions
[2007-01-17 20:22:21] <SteveC> hows about just opening up the CFP to workshops?
[2007-01-17 20:22:22] <_80n> There should be technical workshops for hackers and non-technical mapping workshops for mappers
[2007-01-17 20:22:44] <steve8> GPS - show and tell the + and - of your GPS - 5-10 mins per person maybe
[2007-01-17 20:22:45] <nickb_ldn> _80n: yes - aka BOF sessions
[2007-01-17 20:22:50] <Blackadder> _80n: +1 for that
[2007-01-17 20:23:27] <_80n> steve8: +1 a kind of GPS shootout perhaps?
[2007-01-17 20:24:03] <steve8> different units actually +ve for different types of activity too
[2007-01-17 20:24:15] <Blackadder> It will be light after the conf finishes so mapping could be done in the early evening
[2007-01-17 20:24:15] <Miche2> Tips for using the gps? When walking, on bike, ... (car is clear mostly)
[2007-01-17 20:24:17] <Miche2> ?
[2007-01-17 20:24:55] <Miche2> I know it is for begiiners maybe :)
[2007-01-17 20:25:02] <_80n> Do we need a newbies track?
[2007-01-17 20:25:11] <SteveC> _80n: was just thinking that
[2007-01-17 20:25:12] <Miche2> maybe it is too clear
[2007-01-17 20:25:17] <_80n> their needs will be different from the old hands
[2007-01-17 20:25:20] <Blackadder> So how to mix the workshps with presntations. Sounds like we need an equal amount of both or make it all workshop stype 
with just keynotes at the beginning?
[2007-01-17 20:25:37] <steve8> By then - practical aspects of OSM to GPS/PDA for use in surveying tasks?
[2007-01-17 20:25:37] <SteveC> how about total newbies can come on saturday and get a lot out, gets more in to OSM on sunday?
[2007-01-17 20:25:42] <nickb_ldn> yeah - how abotu workshops in the morning and talks in the afternoon
[2007-01-17 20:25:56] <nickb_ldn> SteveC: prob a better plan
[2007-01-17 20:26:14] <Blackadder> SteveC: That sounds a good plan. A ramp up
[2007-01-17 20:27:02] <Blackadder> Would still suggest a keynote at the beginning of each day though. Perhaps the first one is you Steve though
[2007-01-17 20:27:17] <steve8> One of tagging, etc without GPS - encourage the closing of loops in the dataset
[2007-01-17 20:27:24] <_80n> Can we land someone like ... Ed Parsons?
[2007-01-17 20:27:35] <Blackadder> We need someone like Ed
[2007-01-17 20:27:54] <steve8> +1 from Steve8. He's always espousing that he drinks with OSMers!
[2007-01-17 20:28:15] <SteveC> I think we could get Ed with a bit of luck
[2007-01-17 20:28:19] <steve8> Seriously, he may be available and may be amenable
[2007-01-17 20:28:39] <_80n> Can we action SteveC to approach him?
[2007-01-17 20:28:45] <Blackadder> Move on?
[2007-01-17 20:28:49] * SteveC is actioned and deployed
[2007-01-17 20:29:04] <Blackadder> 4. Session Themes & Chairs – Submission of papers/talk topics
[2007-01-17 20:29:24] <steve8> concluding remark on that - Steve C keynote to newbie day, Ed keynote to depth day
[2007-01-17 20:29:29] <Blackadder> Ok, throw out lots of topic ideas, we can look at what shows up in the log later
[2007-01-17 20:29:41] <_80n> map features
[2007-01-17 20:29:54] <SteveC> Themes: mapping, tagging, tech side
[2007-01-17 20:30:00] <_80n> databases
[2007-01-17 20:30:07] <Miche2> p2p/distributed storage for osm-data
[2007-01-17 20:30:09] <Miche2> :)
[2007-01-17 20:30:20] <f_mohr> converting from/to OSM
[2007-01-17 20:30:22] <nickb_ldn> Workshop: Using OSM data to Make maps with the OSMRenders
[2007-01-17 20:30:25] <Miche2> I'm intereted in this area: multimedi, databses, ...
[2007-01-17 20:30:36] <nickb_ldn> workshop: Extracting data from the OSM API
[2007-01-17 20:30:40] <Miche2> automatig the mapping-process
[2007-01-17 20:30:53] <Miche2> integration is desktops
[2007-01-17 20:30:55] <_80n> wkifying osm
[2007-01-17 20:31:18] <Blackadder> Any other key "industry" people we can approach for a few chair positions?
[2007-01-17 20:31:35] <SteveC> Blackadder: yeah. MM for one
[2007-01-17 20:31:46] <Blackadder> A few key chairs will help bring in non osmers
[2007-01-17 20:31:46] <steve8> Cartography! Principles - data integrity, scale, carto-licence (moving things small amount to get in), consistency, 
symbolistaion ....
[2007-01-17 20:31:53] <Blackadder> SteveC: Noted
[2007-01-17 20:32:06] <SteveC> steve8 oh yeah, cartography might be good :)
[2007-01-17 20:32:11] <Blackadder> lol
[2007-01-17 20:32:28] <Miche2> the economic consequences of free osm-data: What can people do with the data (see goglemaps maybe)
[2007-01-17 20:32:34] <Blackadder> Country by country stuff
[2007-01-17 20:32:39] <Miche2> or just the joy of free geo-data
[2007-01-17 20:32:54] <SteveC> Miche2: these arnt really themes so much as specific talks :)
[2007-01-17 20:33:21] <Miche2> What can I say
[2007-01-17 20:33:21] <nickb_ldn> how about we try and get a view from inside - someone who is opposed to free data collection, spur on a bit of a debate?
[2007-01-17 20:33:26] <Miche2> generalize an dyou have theme :)
[2007-01-17 20:33:30] <Blackadder> Once we have selecetd some logical topics do we want people to submit papers or just a title and abstract so we can  decide
[2007-01-17 20:33:40] <steve8> somone from non-UK on problems of tagging/categorizing across cultures?
[2007-01-17 20:33:48] <Blackadder> decide who can present that is.
[2007-01-17 20:34:02] <SteveC> abstract is ok I think, with links to previous work
[2007-01-17 20:34:32] <steve8> Again, musn't put people off my asking for loop jumping - abstract and outline
[2007-01-17 20:35:03] <Blackadder> Submit these on the wiki...
[2007-01-17 20:35:05] <_80n> We need to discuss the timeline for submissions, etc.  Can that be added to the agenda?
[2007-01-17 20:35:21] <Blackadder> Do it now if you like
[2007-01-17 20:35:30] <Blackadder> When's are cutoff
[2007-01-17 20:35:36] <Blackadder> are = our
[2007-01-17 20:35:51] <Blackadder> Easter?
[2007-01-17 20:36:19] <_80n> We need to have a provisional programme by about April I'd say
[2007-01-17 20:36:23] <nickb_ldn> 1 April
[2007-01-17 20:36:26] <Miche2> :)
[2007-01-17 20:37:05] <steve8> Needs to get out ASAP to get in listings, online events diaries, people's diaries, etc
[2007-01-17 20:37:08] <SteveC> 1 march submit deadline?
[2007-01-17 20:37:09] <Blackadder> We will need to get that date broadcast pdq
[2007-01-17 20:37:31] <_80n> So, call for papers / participation immediately, deadline for submissions 1 March, provisional programme 1 April?
[2007-01-17 20:37:34] <nickb_ldn> 1 March - submit proposals with Abstract
[2007-01-17 20:37:34] <Miche2> provide vcalendar-format or something like that
[2007-01-17 20:37:42] <f_mohr> should i ask a friend who organizes a lot of conferences about the timelines they use for submissons?
[2007-01-17 20:37:48] <Blackadder> _80n: That sounds about right to me
[2007-01-17 20:37:54] <nickb_ldn> I dont think you can really expect epopel to have the final paper written until 1 min before they start
[2007-01-17 20:37:59] <Miche2> :)
[2007-01-17 20:38:04] <Blackadder> nickb_ldn: I never do
[2007-01-17 20:38:15] * nickb_ldn doesnt either
[2007-01-17 20:38:27] <almien> 1 min? that's a lot of preparation
[2007-01-17 20:38:42] <_80n> we just need an abstract
[2007-01-17 20:38:45] <Blackadder> ok, ready to move on?
[2007-01-17 20:38:58] <steve8> Don't call them papers - presentation, talk, workshop, session, anything but paper
[2007-01-17 20:39:12] <Blackadder> 5. Sponsorship & Exhibitors/Posters
[2007-01-17 20:39:36] <Blackadder> How we going to pay for it
[2007-01-17 20:39:37] <SteveC> Manchester uni need lots of cred for giving us space etc already
[2007-01-17 20:40:09] <_80n> Blackadder: pay for what?
[2007-01-17 20:40:16] <SteveC> _80n: imis flight?
[2007-01-17 20:40:33] <Blackadder> _80n: The little things
[2007-01-17 20:41:16] <_80n> We can ask exhibitors to pay a little
[2007-01-17 20:41:27] <Blackadder> There will be a whole host of costs for everything from printing posters and other publicity, handouts and catering
[2007-01-17 20:41:34] <Blackadder> _80n: yep
[2007-01-17 20:41:43] <steve8> Guardian - Free our data - paper started in manchester!
[2007-01-17 20:41:45] <_80n> We can ask attendees for donations :(
[2007-01-17 20:41:49] <SteveC> ugh, FoD
[2007-01-17 20:42:07] <SteveC> _80n: I was more thinking charging £5 entry (next topic)
[2007-01-17 20:42:12] <Blackadder> I think those attending need to contribute a bit
[2007-01-17 20:42:30] <steve8> Some charge gives it value
[2007-01-17 20:42:34] <nickb_ldn> yes - charge £25 and give a free tshirt
[2007-01-17 20:42:45] <SteveC> free tshirt - genius
[2007-01-17 20:42:55] <Blackadder> Do we want to encourage a small exhibition. Garmin or a GPS supplier for instance.
[2007-01-17 20:43:03] <_80n> Yes
[2007-01-17 20:43:10] <nickb_ldn> yeah
[2007-01-17 20:43:11] <SteveC> maybe Storage depot would give a free GPS away or something
[2007-01-17 20:43:18] <Blackadder> nickb_ldn: Make sure SteveC's T shirt is good this time ;-)
[2007-01-17 20:43:35] * nickb_ldn will organise in plenty of time this time
[2007-01-17 20:43:54] <almien> OSM hoodies, with the GPS/notebook pockets at front
[2007-01-17 20:43:58] <Blackadder> Posters - How about everyone who wants to gets a bit of wall space to presnet their mapping
[2007-01-17 20:44:23] <Blackadder> The wallmap of fame
[2007-01-17 20:44:25] <_80n> And non-commercial organisations - CartoSOC etc
[2007-01-17 20:45:02] <steve8> Yep - have a poster time when people can be there to talk about them(have in t-room)
[2007-01-17 20:45:22] <Blackadder> Are there any big commercial playes who are sufficiently interested in opensource to exhibit?
[2007-01-17 20:45:33] <_80n> RedHat?
[2007-01-17 20:46:04] <_80n> IBM?
[2007-01-17 20:46:24] <SteveC> Cadcorp may go for it
[2007-01-17 20:46:39] <Blackadder> Who's inviting the OS?
[2007-01-17 20:46:41] <SteveC> their data agnostic
[2007-01-17 20:46:45] * Blackadder ducks
[2007-01-17 20:46:54] <SteveC> y'know... they might send a speaker
[2007-01-17 20:47:03] <SteveC> stranger things have happened
[2007-01-17 20:47:19] <SteveC> if they knew we wernt throwing eggs
[2007-01-17 20:47:33] <Blackadder> I'm not throwing eggs. I love OS maps
[2007-01-17 20:47:37] <nickb_ldn> Yes, I think we shold invite them to give their perspective
[2007-01-17 20:47:41] <Blackadder> I just like our maps too
[2007-01-17 20:47:55] <nickb_ldn> they can talk about how they do things - we can learn from earch other
[2007-01-17 20:48:06] <Blackadder> ok, move on agian?
[2007-01-17 20:48:16] <_80n> Ramblers Association? Sustrans?
[2007-01-17 20:48:21] <steve8> Trawl the GPS companies on GPS page on wiki Magellan, Holox, acer
[2007-01-17 20:48:29] <Blackadder> _80n: Nice catch
[2007-01-17 20:48:58] <Blackadder> How about those that might use our data?
[2007-01-17 20:49:23] <Blackadder> Independent map producers for example
[2007-01-17 20:49:36] <Blackadder> 6. Fees, concessions, Registration processing
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[2007-01-17 20:50:26] <SteveC> £10, £5 concession, speaker free... 
[2007-01-17 20:50:42] <Blackadder> I think its reasonable to make a charge to cover a basic cost if that permits us to provide some refreshemnts and perhaps 
a light lunch
[2007-01-17 20:50:45] <SteveC> registration - need a small app hooked to paypal or something
[2007-01-17 20:50:47] <nickb_ldn> We can charge more
[2007-01-17 20:51:00] <steve8> Higher. £25 at least
[2007-01-17 20:51:01] <SteveC> nickb_ldn: you reckon? I guess... £20?
[2007-01-17 20:51:06] <Blackadder> We need someone to process and also to collect from those that just turn up
[2007-01-17 20:51:15] <nickb_ldn> if we give a Tshirt and a program with entrance
[2007-01-17 20:51:23] <SteveC> cool, well im happy higher of course
[2007-01-17 20:51:23] <Blackadder> Ideally someone in Manchester
[2007-01-17 20:51:28] <nickb_ldn> raises peoples perceptions of value
[2007-01-17 20:51:48] <steve8> Chris perkins likely to be involved (he's from Man Uni)?
[2007-01-17 20:51:49] <nickb_ldn> so £20, £15 concesssion
[2007-01-17 20:51:55] <Blackadder> Something per day too. £20 say
[2007-01-17 20:52:07] <SteveC> steve8 yes - he and martin dodge are giving us the space
[2007-01-17 20:52:21] <_80n> How much to charge for exhibitors?
[2007-01-17 20:52:56] <Blackadder> One of their secretaries dealt with all the processing, accommodation requests, speaker expenses etc. We need someone   like that
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[2007-01-17 20:53:36] <steve8> £100 downwards, but they will demand space, power, tables, boards (often bring own) for teh money
[2007-01-17 20:53:57] <_80n> I was thinking more like £250
[2007-01-17 20:53:58] <SteveC> I can try, but no guarentees. the secretary person doesnt absolutely need to be in manchester right
[2007-01-17 20:54:29] <Blackadder> SteveC: No but the benefit is in dealing with the pre-stuff if they are
[2007-01-17 20:54:38] <SteveC> aside - it may be good to get UKUUG involved, i know the guy who organises their yearly linux conf
[2007-01-17 20:55:36] <Blackadder> We should ask Martin/Chris if there is someone that would help with organisation even if its for a fee
[2007-01-17 20:55:45] <_80n> Non-commercial exhibitors should be much less - £20 perhaps
[2007-01-17 20:55:59] <SteveC> oh... and are we all on the party@ list to organise things?
[2007-01-17 20:56:11] <_80n> none
[2007-01-17 20:56:15] <SteveC> Blackadder: i'll ask them cc the list
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[2007-01-17 20:56:19] <_80n> s/none/nope/
[2007-01-17 20:56:36] <Blackadder> Yes, please all who are interested get on that lits
[2007-01-17 20:57:44] <Blackadder> ok, move on again?
[2007-01-17 20:57:55] <SteveC> y
[2007-01-17 20:57:58] <Blackadder> 7. Audio/Visual & IT requirements
[2007-01-17 20:58:20] <SteveC> we will be lucky to get Wifi I think. Can try the bristol wireless or others to get it hooked up
[2007-01-17 20:58:28] <Blackadder> We can see what the uni is offering. I guess we can cover any laptop needs. mainly I'm thinking wifi etc
[2007-01-17 20:58:38] <Blackadder> I dont think wifi will happen
[2007-01-17 20:58:40] <SteveC> we need 2 projectors. uni will have them (will ask) but backup always good
[2007-01-17 20:59:02] * _80n can supply a projector
[2007-01-17 20:59:04] <Blackadder> The last conf they had the two rooms behind the conf available for email and that was about it
[2007-01-17 20:59:25] <SteveC> oh and manchester said they would provide tea and biscuits IIRC
[2007-01-17 20:59:26] <steve8> Lecture space will have Pc/laptop and projection in place. may need to ask for (pay for?) tech support
[2007-01-17 20:59:45] <Blackadder> I think we should push hard tor internet access if we can. It could make a big diff
[2007-01-17 21:00:00] <steve8> www is must for workshop spaces
[2007-01-17 21:00:00] <SteveC> we may be able to get a wifi over 3G link going, we have some talented people on the list
[2007-01-17 21:00:50] <Blackadder> We have to bear in mind that at weekends the Uni's IT people will probably not play ball. Whatever we do we should do 
alone I think
[2007-01-17 21:01:14] <steve8> steve8 envisages everyone in audience tapping away on wifi-laptops and not listening!
[2007-01-17 21:01:15] <Blackadder> And that could be one of our biggests costs to set up
[2007-01-17 21:01:24] <SteveC> steve8: there is that
[2007-01-17 21:01:44] <Blackadder> Steve8: They listen but all slag off the speaker to each other ;-)
[2007-01-17 21:01:53] <SteveC> ok so failover would be nearest wifi cafe.. need someone to go find that
[2007-01-17 21:02:11] <SteveC> OH you know who else - the MDDA who hosted mapchester can help - v. friendly
[2007-01-17 21:02:27] <Blackadder> We need the Uni's computer students to be set a challenge
[2007-01-17 21:02:39] <SteveC> Blackadder: can you try MDDA as you were last talking to drew etc?
[2007-01-17 21:02:44] <Blackadder> SteveC: Good catch
[2007-01-17 21:02:48] <SteveC> Blackadder: I can dig out emails etc
[2007-01-17 21:02:53] <Blackadder> I have
[2007-01-17 21:03:08] <SteveC> reminder though that drew != MDDA
[2007-01-17 21:03:35] <SteveC> off the wall ideas - battery chargers for all the GPSes?
[2007-01-17 21:03:44] <Blackadder> I think the MDDA were copied on some of the emails I have
[2007-01-17 21:04:12] <Blackadder> Its summer, we can do an outdoor workshop to get the GPS's working
[2007-01-17 21:04:35] <SteveC> erm... anyone know someone with an SLR - group photos from the conf?
[2007-01-17 21:04:36] <Blackadder> Perhaps we should have done the whole thing in a tesnt in the park
[2007-01-17 21:04:47] * _80n hopes the exhibitors will have plenty of demo GPS units for us to try out
[2007-01-17 21:05:14] <almien> is there yahoo photo of brum?
[2007-01-17 21:05:16] <SteveC> are we dividing up work as we go - someone needs to head up getting exhibitors?
[2007-01-17 21:05:22] <Blackadder> almien: No
[2007-01-17 21:05:29] <SteveC> almien: I'll ping them ask them for it urgently
[2007-01-17 21:05:38] <Blackadder> SteveC: Last topic item
[2007-01-17 21:05:59] <SteveC> almien: what am I talking about... the conf isnt in brum
[2007-01-17 21:06:07] <almien> sorry
[2007-01-17 21:06:18] <almien> $CITY
[2007-01-17 21:06:27] <Blackadder> yes, we can completely map Manchester before the conf and just leave the streetnames
[2007-01-17 21:06:35] <SteveC> almien: yes its there for manchsester
[2007-01-17 21:07:09] <Blackadder> ok, moving on again
[2007-01-17 21:07:14] <Blackadder> 8. Accommodation & catering
[2007-01-17 21:07:19] <SteveC> Blackadder: random thought: the MDDA had lots of contacts within manchester council and other interesting orgs
[2007-01-17 21:07:29] <Blackadder> SteveC: Yes
[2007-01-17 21:07:57] -->| enxrah (~enxrah@bathterror.free-online.co.uk) has joined #osm
[2007-01-17 21:08:00] <Blackadder> And Drew might be tempted in some way
[2007-01-17 21:08:16] <Blackadder> Futuresonic still have this years stuff to do
[2007-01-17 21:08:38] <Blackadder> We need to see if some halls are available
[2007-01-17 21:08:46] <Blackadder> accom that is
[2007-01-17 21:09:12] <SteveC> yeah I can ask that in an email too but I think if you book now through expedia/whatever its pretty cheap anyway
[2007-01-17 21:09:29] <SteveC> perhaps we should get some recommended places
[2007-01-17 21:10:26] <SteveC> tag this on to the end of sponsorship - someone to sponsor meal on saturday? oh and I think UCL may be able to throw some 
funds for something like that
[2007-01-17 21:10:53] <SteveC> nickb_ldn: you try muki, I'll try Bartlett / CASA ?
[2007-01-17 21:11:32] <Blackadder> There is a bar there
[2007-01-17 21:12:01] <SteveC> Catering... is pret a manger good enough?
[2007-01-17 21:12:01] <Blackadder> You go through the bar to the dining hall
[2007-01-17 21:12:14] <SteveC> we dont want to get stuck with uni catering do we?
[2007-01-17 21:12:20] <Blackadder> We need something brought in but simple stuff is good for me
[2007-01-17 21:12:32] <Blackadder> We can booze and stuff our faces in the evening
[2007-01-17 21:12:33] <steve8> need to check if Uni will allow that to happen
[2007-01-17 21:12:59] <steve8> bringing in catering that is
[2007-01-17 21:13:02] <Blackadder> We need to be careful to make sure guests less aquainted with british culture get looked after
[2007-01-17 21:13:25] <Blackadder> And those south of watford ;-)
[2007-01-17 21:13:31] <almien> curry it is then, Blackadder ;)
[2007-01-17 21:13:34] <steve8> oi!
[2007-01-17 21:13:43] <_80n> A buddy system for newbies and overseas visitors might work well
[2007-01-17 21:13:58] <Miche2> vegetarian and non-vegetarian maybe
[2007-01-17 21:14:01] <Blackadder> The uni did a curry when I spoke there last year... it made me very ill
[2007-01-17 21:14:03] <nickb_ldn> _80n: noooo - thye are so lame
[2007-01-17 21:14:16] <nickb_ldn> I think everyone will look after each other anyway
[2007-01-17 21:14:35] <nickb_ldn> if we organise something on sat night, so everyone has somewhere to go to and meet up it'll be cool
[2007-01-17 21:14:40] <nickb_ldn> curry mile?
[2007-01-17 21:14:48] <Blackadder> nickb_ldn: Don't be so sure. If we have a big turnout we will need to provide assistance to some
[2007-01-17 21:15:17] <Blackadder> We need a mad mappers drunkal brawl
[2007-01-17 21:15:20] <Miche2> be sure to sollect links to peoples pictures, ...
[2007-01-17 21:15:27] <SteveC> is anything happening in the city on the same weekend?
[2007-01-17 21:15:44] <Blackadder> Need to check that
[2007-01-17 21:15:50] <steve8> why not reduce cost to punters to the reg/day costs only. the Sat eve and overnight to be optional/personal but provide all 
options as part
[2007-01-17 21:15:54] <steve8> of programme
[2007-01-17 21:16:25] <SteveC> eg so its not just pub and random curry - maybe go look at something then resteraunt which has some special twist... like on  a boat or something
[2007-01-17 21:16:29] <Blackadder> steve8: If we can have someone cover the organisation of that I think thats the sort of thing that will work best
[2007-01-17 21:16:30] <SteveC> Miche2: +1 to that... pictures <---> names are good
[2007-01-17 21:16:49] <Blackadder> SteveC: We have time to book something
[2007-01-17 21:17:10] <steve8> numbers dependent too really
[2007-01-17 21:17:33] <SteveC> Do we need to go to manchester before? It may be good just out of courtesy to martin/chris and to check things out
[2007-01-17 21:17:34] <Miche2> If you have enough people, you can ask some hotels, .. if they cn give special deals
[2007-01-17 21:17:49] <Blackadder> SteveC: A must
[2007-01-17 21:18:15] <Blackadder> ok, moving on again?
[2007-01-17 21:18:19] <SteveC> y
[2007-01-17 21:18:20] <Blackadder> 9. Conference support services (front desk etc)
[2007-01-17 21:18:32] <Miche2> just give your cellphone-number :)
[2007-01-17 21:18:35] <Blackadder> We have covered most of this but we will need some sort of welcome desk
[2007-01-17 21:18:39] <Miche2> take an extra line
[2007-01-17 21:18:41] <Miche2> to be sure
[2007-01-17 21:18:52] <SteveC> girlfriends / wives on desk? mine could go for it
[2007-01-17 21:18:54] <Blackadder> But a cellphone is a good idea
[2007-01-17 21:19:09] [INFO] 2 matches for ``Steve: [SteveC, steve8]
[2007-01-17 21:19:14] <SteveC> then again she might stab me
[2007-01-17 21:19:23] <almien> when has steve's phone ever had reception at a meetup?
[2007-01-17 21:19:24] <Miche2> :)
[2007-01-17 21:19:26] <Blackadder> SteveC: beats the usual trip around the local abertoir for them anyway ;-)
[2007-01-17 21:19:33] <nickb_ldn> SteveC: hmm - your a real 21st century man
[2007-01-17 21:19:48] <nickb_ldn> anythings better than mapping
[2007-01-17 21:20:10] <Miche2> The nice thing is we can track where evryone was
[2007-01-17 21:20:11] <Miche2> :)
[2007-01-17 21:20:19] <Miche2> if they leave on their gps and don't delete points ....
[2007-01-17 21:20:31] <Miche2> We could make it zero-privacy
[2007-01-17 21:20:43] <_80n> what functions does the front-desk need to provide?
[2007-01-17 21:21:00] <Miche2> Timetable and where is evrything located
[2007-01-17 21:21:00] <almien> also email/wiki contact, if people can't find us, and go to an internet cafe or something
[2007-01-17 21:21:03] <SteveC> (total off-topic: podcast up: http://www.opengeodata.org/?p=155)
[2007-01-17 21:21:13] <f_mohr> distribute badges
[2007-01-17 21:21:20] <Blackadder> registering people and giving them their welcome pack (plus take the money off them)
[2007-01-17 21:21:30] <_80n> registration, payment
[2007-01-17 21:21:32] <Miche2> But provide vcard-info and osm-map of place and that helps too
[2007-01-17 21:22:18] <Blackadder> 90% of those that attend will not know the location at all. The desk normally help a bit with pointing people in the   right direction
[2007-01-17 21:22:30] <Miche2> Provide osm-map of the place
[2007-01-17 21:22:33] <Miche2> you seemingly have one
[2007-01-17 21:22:38] <Miche2> it is online I suppose
[2007-01-17 21:22:46] <Miche2> and put waypoints with data_restritcion
[2007-01-17 21:22:49] <almien> so when someone phones up with their lat/long, ability to direct them to the place...
[2007-01-17 21:22:55] <Blackadder> It will be by July but missing lots of streetnames
[2007-01-17 21:23:20] <Blackadder> For Bill Gates chopper for example?
[2007-01-17 21:23:39] <Blackadder> How about Adam Curry's plane?
[2007-01-17 21:24:17] <Blackadder> Ok, lets rattle through the next couple
[2007-01-17 21:24:27] <Blackadder> 10. Conference outreach
[2007-01-17 21:24:35] <Miche2> almien: all possible. Just setup and asterisk-server and make a connection to your cellphoen with bluetooth. That should work 
maybe
[2007-01-17 21:24:36] <SteveC> what exactly is 10?
[2007-01-17 21:24:39] <Miche2> anyway
[2007-01-17 21:25:01] <Blackadder> Press, meadia, advertsining
[2007-01-17 21:25:21] <almien> 10 is section number on agenda
[2007-01-17 21:25:34] <Blackadder> its also the number after 9 ;-)
[2007-01-17 21:25:53] <almien> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10_%28number%29
[2007-01-17 21:26:03] * SteveC rolls eyes
[2007-01-17 21:26:24] <SteveC> opengeodata gets a wide readership... the guardian can be friendly
[2007-01-17 21:26:31] <Blackadder> I guess we contact all the usual local media outlets, but what about the national and international circuit?
[2007-01-17 21:26:32] <_80n> we can probably do a pretty good job of this in the UK, what about overseas?
[2007-01-17 21:26:35] <SteveC> the front page of OSM can mention it
[2007-01-17 21:26:45] <steve8> I can do publicity through SoC, cart-soc, BritCartSoc, and happy to log geo-blogs with info
[2007-01-17 21:26:56] <SteveC> yeah... um, we're all from the UK here right? We need to get talk-de involved
[2007-01-17 21:27:05] <Miche2> not really
[2007-01-17 21:27:17] <Miche2> or wsa that ironically
[2007-01-17 21:27:20] <f_mohr> how about linux mag or similar publications?
[2007-01-17 21:27:26] <Miche2> indeed
[2007-01-17 21:27:28] <Miche2> an interview
[2007-01-17 21:27:39] <SteveC> f_mohr: yeah we can do that... linux format did a thing about us IIRC
[2007-01-17 21:27:51] <Blackadder> We need to do some of this soon to get interest outside of OSM
[2007-01-17 21:28:08] <Blackadder> Even if its just to get some stimulating presentation suggestions
[2007-01-17 21:28:25] <steve8> Get listing in Calendars of events - like: http://home.earthlink.net/~docktor/index.htm
[2007-01-17 21:28:44] <SteveC> f_mohr: where abouts are you?
[2007-01-17 21:29:13] <Miche2> There are those online linux-radios
[2007-01-17 21:29:18] <Miche2> lugradio is even from the UK
[2007-01-17 21:29:24] <Miche2> Maybe they have interest
[2007-01-17 21:29:50] <Miche2> ofcourse ti is audio-only
[2007-01-17 21:30:04] <SteveC> lugradio is a good one
[2007-01-17 21:30:06] <Miche2> -ofcoure
[2007-01-17 21:30:17] <SteveC> they did a segment on OSM many moons ago
[2007-01-17 21:30:35] <_80n> we need someone in each country to work on local promotion of the event
[2007-01-17 21:30:50] <f_mohr> @stevec germany
[2007-01-17 21:31:20] <SteveC> f_mohr: dont want to coordinate things in germany do you?
[2007-01-17 21:31:43] <Blackadder> Is the wiki ok to devlop all this stuff or should we point stateofthemap.org at a prettier set of pages?
[2007-01-17 21:31:45] <f_mohr> if i can shift it in my timetable
[2007-01-17 21:31:55] <_80n> Can we call it the "OpenStreetMap *International* Conference"?
[2007-01-17 21:32:13] <Miche2> OSMC
[2007-01-17 21:32:21] <Miche2> OSMIC
[2007-01-17 21:32:30] <Miche2> I go for OSMIC
[2007-01-17 21:32:34] <nickb_ldn> surely State of the Map is great
[2007-01-17 21:32:35] <Miche2> better pronouncable
[2007-01-17 21:32:39] <steve8> Get a C in front and it will be cosmic!
[2007-01-17 21:32:43] <Miche2> :)
[2007-01-17 21:33:01] <Blackadder> Nobody knows what OSMIC means. I prefer The State of the Map
[2007-01-17 21:33:02] <almien> COPE
[2007-01-17 21:33:17] <nickb_ldn> + 1 State of the Map
[2007-01-17 21:33:23] <_80n> State of the Map is great - the sub-heading should be "The first OpenStreetMap International Conference"
[2007-01-17 21:33:31] <Miche2> OSM: The State of the Map
[2007-01-17 21:33:34] <Blackadder> _80n: agreed to that
[2007-01-17 21:33:41] <Miche2> indeed with OSM integrated in it
[2007-01-17 21:33:50] * _80n didn't mean to try to change the name of the conference
[2007-01-17 21:34:32] <Blackadder> ok, penultimate item?
[2007-01-17 21:34:38] <Blackadder> 11. Social side
[2007-01-17 21:34:55] <Blackadder> We covered a bit of this. We potentially have Friday and Sat nights to consider
[2007-01-17 21:35:13] <Blackadder> We can include a bit of Friday probably
[2007-01-17 21:35:22] <Blackadder> for those keen to do something
[2007-01-17 21:35:30] <Blackadder> who arrive early enough
[2007-01-17 21:36:03] <SteveC> also - sunday eve may be wind-down time for organisers.. I dont see me going home sunday eve, probably easy monday journey
[2007-01-17 21:36:10] <Blackadder> Loosey goosey works for me on Friday though
[2007-01-17 21:36:44] <steve8> Would advertise the actual event as starting mid-morning Sat to allow reasonable chance of travel to from UKers
[2007-01-17 21:36:48] <Blackadder> SteveC: A short debrief before we troll off wound't be a bad idea
[2007-01-17 21:36:51] <_80n> an informal rendezvous point/time on Friday evening?
[2007-01-17 21:37:02] <SteveC> we need pub/resteraunt recommendations
[2007-01-17 21:37:26] <Blackadder> steve8: If we get a really full program of interesting stuff that may not be an issue
[2007-01-17 21:37:47] <Blackadder> Do we know of any Manchester mappers yet?
[2007-01-17 21:38:12] <SteveC> I don't
[2007-01-17 21:38:13] <_80n> most overseas attendees will travel Friday I would think
[2007-01-17 21:38:16] <nickb_ldn> I have to go now - we should def visit the curry mile though
[2007-01-17 21:38:20] <--| nickb_ldn has left #osm
[2007-01-17 21:38:52] <Blackadder> I like nicks style, ducking out before the final set of chores comes up ;-)
[2007-01-17 21:39:21] <SteveC> heh
[2007-01-17 21:39:36] <Blackadder> Before I put up the last item is there anything else anyone wants to suggest or discuss
[2007-01-17 21:40:12] <Blackadder> On any topic relating to the conference
[2007-01-17 21:40:17] <SteveC> erm
[2007-01-17 21:40:38] <_80n> there are 19 people showing interest on the wiki atm - there could easily be 200 on the day
[2007-01-17 21:40:50] <Blackadder> yep
[2007-01-17 21:40:51] <SteveC> I lament it not being in the EU... thought that should be mentioned
[2007-01-17 21:41:06] <Blackadder> +1 to that
[2007-01-17 21:41:10] <almien> SteveC: better ask gordon brown really nicely...
[2007-01-17 21:41:15] <Miche2> lament?
[2007-01-17 21:41:33] <SteveC> Miche2:    To mourn for; to bemoan; to bewail.
[2007-01-17 21:41:59] <Miche2> England is th E.U. although it is really anoying that they don't use the euro-coin :)
[2007-01-17 21:42:11] <Miche2> Don't get it, but ok
[2007-01-17 21:42:26] <steve8> that'll be a Gordon lament then (weak polico pun)
[2007-01-17 21:42:30] <Blackadder> If this conf goes well it will make organising one outside the UK so much easier
[2007-01-17 21:42:57] <Blackadder> ok, last item then...
[2007-01-17 21:42:59] <Blackadder> 12. Roundup - Action plan
[2007-01-17 21:43:20] <Blackadder> I'm not proposing we dole out lots of tasks now.
[2007-01-17 21:43:48] * SteveC has a list of emails to send to people
[2007-01-17 21:44:06] <Blackadder> Rather condence the log of info to the wiki nand ask for specific help with specific tasks from that
[2007-01-17 21:44:32] <almien> check the notes, add anything that was missed: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/The_State_Of_The_Map/Notes1
[2007-01-17 21:44:37] <_80n> we should also get the timeline finalised
[2007-01-17 21:44:40] <Blackadder> However if anyone wants to put their hands up for something specific then shout now
[2007-01-17 21:44:44] <SteveC> I think the most important thing is getting ppl in the EU interested and organising
[2007-01-17 21:45:30] <Blackadder> _80n: Do we need to set deadlines on anything bar the call for abstracts?
[2007-01-17 21:45:48] <Blackadder> Deadlines now that is?
[2007-01-17 21:46:00] <Miche2> eeeh deadlines
[2007-01-17 21:46:02] <_80n> Registration deadline, and early registration discount
[2007-01-17 21:46:09] <SteveC> and maybe suggest to people that booking flights etc NOW is a good idea
[2007-01-17 21:46:23] <Miche2> the later i agree
[2007-01-17 21:46:26] <Miche2> latter
[2007-01-17 21:46:31] <kleptog> places to stay organised?
[2007-01-17 21:46:33] <Blackadder> To do that we need to agree a price
[2007-01-17 21:47:03] <_80n> So we need to firm up prices and overall envelope asap
[2007-01-17 21:47:08] <Blackadder> And I think we need some idea of what the costs might be for that
[2007-01-17 21:47:32] <Miche2> maybe some people want to come by car (eurotunnel or boat)
[2007-01-17 21:48:04] <Blackadder> Can everyone expand the notes and add in where they think an answer needs to be obtained to something.
[2007-01-17 21:48:26] <Blackadder> Then go and find an answer if you can
[2007-01-17 21:48:28] <_80n> What's the deal with the Uni - what do we have to pay them?
[2007-01-17 21:49:00] <SteveC> _80n: £0
[2007-01-17 21:49:10] <SteveC> _80n: courtesy beers wont go amis Im sure
[2007-01-17 21:49:11] <_80n> Good :)
[2007-01-17 21:49:49] <Blackadder> Hang on, we need a brewery to sponsor us
[2007-01-17 21:49:59] <almien> we can pay for that £0 with google adverts 80n ;)
[2007-01-17 21:50:51] <_80n> We should firm up a date for another session - in a week or so
[2007-01-17 21:51:03] <SteveC> 24th?
[2007-01-17 21:51:33] <Blackadder> Yes
[2007-01-17 21:51:54] <_80n> 24th is Ok for me
[2007-01-17 21:51:55] <steve8> Good 4me. (off-topic) steveC - Great result getting multimap to provide location for Lond mapping party
[2007-01-17 21:52:48] <SteveC> steve8: :)
[2007-01-17 21:52:55] <Blackadder> Ok, think we are done for tonight. Thanks all, see you next Wednesday 24th at 20:00 GMT