User talk:Emvee

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Amenity=recycling

On http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:amenity%3Drecycling&diff=next&oldid=1256921 you've added "location=underground for an underfloor-container" but according to location description, "location=underground Used where a feature is under ground, not visible on the surface." It doesn't match your use case, does it?

--Nospam2005 (talk) 16:45, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

Agreed, location=underground is not 100% correct for a recycling container that is (largely) under ground but everybody immediately understands what is meant and I see no better location value that is more correct. Do you have a better proposal? -- Emvee (talk) 17:58, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
location=semi_underground or location=semi_buried or location=half_buried or location=partly_buried, I don't mind (I'm not an English native speaker and http://www.linguee.fr/francais-anglais/search?query=semi-enterr%C3%A9 has all those proposals). Looking on my reference for translation - IATE (I must admit that I'm European too), gave only the French term back: http://iate.europa.eu/FindTermsByLilId.do?lilId=379661&langId=fr. Maybe using the Dutch term, you'll be more lucky.
location=half_buried may be to precise. As location=underground exits, I would prefer location=semi_underground or location=partly_underground.
It would be a new value for location, sure but IMHO it makes sense. If we go this path it has to be accepted and the wiki page should reflect the change.
--Nospam2005 (talk) 18:21, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
Like Nospam2005, I was a bit annoyed by the fact that it's not fully hidden. However, in Wallonia, these are referred to as "bulles à verre enterrées" (underground/buried containers) and they're actually hidden, save for the pipe. So I'm leaning toward the use of location=underground. The RedBurn (talk) 19:34, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
As can be seen on the Tercol website, the containers for which all the content (not the visible part) is underground are called "enterrés" (underground/buried) whereas those for which a part of the content is underground are called "semi-enterrés" (semi_underground/half_buried). So the distinction could be made if necessary. Anyway, in my opinion, recycling_type=underfloor-container (63 uses) should be replaced by recycling_type=container + location=underground (512 uses), or location=semi_underground/semi_buried/(...) where/if necessary. The RedBurn (talk) 19:45, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
Now that I think about it, those that are half buried could just forego the use of location= since they are well visible on the outside (isn't it the point of the tag?). The RedBurn (talk) 19:56, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
Absolutely, I was checking the two models (half buried and buried) as I received a modification notice on this page.
So we may add on the location page that underground means that the main part is not visible giving those containers as example.
For recycling_type=underfloor-container, the best is to drop a message to the few users to see if they agree. Currently I can't do that but as the users are in not English speaking country and the tag is not described, I'm pretty sure they meant position=underground.
--Nospam2005 (talk) 20:24, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
The only reason I see why just underground is not good is that the Wiki currently has "not visible on the surface" with the location=underground description, if that was not there I think nobody would have "noticed", so maybe we should remove that. Everybody understands amenity=recycling + location=underground and for example amenity=parking + location=underground does not mean everything is underground.
Following The RedBurn for French, these types of containers are called "Ondergrondse afvalcontainers" in Dutch, see for example http://ondergrondsecontainer.nl/, nothing "semi" or "partly".
Combining this I do not see why adding a new location like location=semi_underground or location=partly_underground would make things better.
Emvee (talk) 20:59, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
Are you OK with a wording like "Used where a feature is under ground, entirely or mostly not visible on the surface.".
I think saying underground means underground doesn't help, "not visible from the surface" helps people not understanding the word underground to get it.
--Nospam2005 (talk) 18:16, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
"Under ground" is simpler English AFAIK than "not visible on the surface" and there are examples in the first part of the page, so one option for me is still to remove it completely.
Actually this part of the discussion should be on Talk:Key:location I think
Emvee (talk) 19:26, 17 May 2017 (UTC)