Proposal talk:Courtyard
ref
I think this is a feature we do need for some contexts (e.g. the so-called "European City", meaning cities like Vienna or Berlin, that have grown immensely in the beginning of the 20th century, and which have had a lot of these inner courtyards due to the attempt of the cities to save money on the construction of public roads: they increased the city blocks hoping that this would lead to private roads which would have been paid for by the residents, but the actual result were very dense structures, separated by courtyards and covered connections underneath/inside the buildings). As some of these structures have become very big, up to 7 courtyards in a line, they are often numbered (e.g. 1. Hof, 2. Hof, 3. Hof) or referred to by letters (e.g. A, B, C, D). The natural key for this kind of information would be the key ref=*. --Dieterdreist (talk) 12:16, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
- That's why I included it in the list of useful combinations. --Fkv (talk) 13:20, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
Highway?
What is the difference between <man_made=courtyard> and <highway=pedestrian> + <area=yes>? --Biff (talk) 18:58, 16 June 2016 (UTC)
- A courtyard is an area enclosed by a building, while a highway=pedestrian is a traffic area. A courtyard may contain a pedestrian area, and the areas may even be congruent (in that case, you can combine those tags), but on the other hand, a courtyard may not contain a pedestrian area at all. Many courtyards contain parking lots, or grass and bushes or even trees. Similarly, a pedestrian area need not be located within a courtyard. See wikipedia:Pedestrian zone for examples. Note that a street canyon is not a courtyard. --Fkv (talk) 21:42, 16 June 2016 (UTC)
"open to the sky"
Thanks for the great proposal, I definitely support it! Though I'd propose to allow covered courtyards to, not only those "open to the sky". It would be useful e.g. for the Comitéhof in the Munich Residenz. Cheers, --Marsupium (talk) 10:19, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
- We could consider a subtag like man_made=courtyard + courtyard=atrium, but I would like to keep the definition simple and unambiguous. We need to draw a clear line what is a courtyard in OSM, and what isn't. From a historical perspective, the Comitéhof is a courtyard, but from a technical perspective, it is a building part (containing only one big room) with a glass roof. If the roof were made of concrete, we certainly wouldn't call it a courtyard anyway. It's just the transparent roof that preserves the appearance of the former courtyard. If we include glass roofs in our man_made=courtyard definition, we open Pandora's box. E.g. greenhouses could then also be tagged as courtyards. Another problem is that the vertical range of an atrium cannot be defined by one single level=*. You also need to specify the level of the roof, or you specify a range using a building:levels=* tag. That again indicates that an atrium is rather a building part than a courtyard. --Fkv (talk) 22:34, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
- In the Wiki page I have created for this tag, I have said "a courtyard is normally open to the sky but may be partially or completely covered". Partial covering seemed fine and within the scope. My rationale for completely covered is that it need not necessarily be a fully water-tight roof that covers the courtyard. I have seen some courtyards that have a roof that is not sealed to the building, rather it is suspended across it to provide some cover from both precipitation and the sun.
- I do, however, agree that thought needs to go into how we tag atriums (i.e. courtyards with fully water-tight, normally glass, roofs). I think they are part of the building, sometimes built as such, but are sometimes converted from courtyards and so have interior walls that were originally the exterior walls of the building's interior face. Casey boy (talk) 13:51, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
- Perhaps building:part=atrium is the right approach for fully enclosed atriums (though it only has two uses currently)? Casey boy (talk) 13:53, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
Pentagon's Central Courtyard
The Pentagon had to use leisure=park. Jidanni (talk) 03:13, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
- That looks fine (it's an area with lawns, trees and footways), but now we can add man_made=courtyard to make clear that it is a park and a courtyard at the same time. --Fkv (talk) 08:33, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
- Done in https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/85453817 . Thanks. Jidanni (talk) 17:36, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
Why not use leisure=courtyard?
Why doesn't leisure fit here? --Floridaeditor (talk) 22:38, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
- When I did military service, all we did in the courtyard of the barracks was military drills. --Fkv (talk) 06:15, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
So maybe we should have military=courtyard and leisure=courtyard? A courtyard in a university is normally a lounging place. --Floridaeditor (talk) 12:10, 12 June 2020 (UTC)- It makes more sense to standardize to one tag. Your man_made makes sense. --Floridaeditor (talk) 12:11, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
Recent surge in usage - status now "in use"?
Hi, this proposal seems to have gone a little quiet but I thought it would be useful to point out that there has been a recent surge in usage of this tag. Prior to May 2021, the total usage was around ~5.5k globally. In just a few days usage tripled to now be ~16k globally. I'm not sure what caused this surge but it could now be that this tag is "in use". Casey boy (talk) 14:22, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
- I obviously won't object when someone sets my proposal to "in use", but the reason for the surge would be interesting. In Overpass API, I find most of the objects created with the iD editor. Needless to say that no iD editor developer ever contacted me about it. The objects created in the last few days don't seem included in the Overpass API yet. --Fkv (talk) 15:24, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
- Ya, I would find the cause of the surge first. --Lectrician1 (talk) 23:34, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
- It appears that man_made=courtyard was added as an iD preset on 20 July 2020. This does coincide with the increased use of this tag but obviously pre-dates the sudden surge (by just under a year). I did find it was recently discussed in regards to translating this preset - so maybe this has something to do with it? Otherwise I'm still not sure why it's suddenly jumped in popularity.
- Regardless, I have gone ahead and created the Wiki page for this tag. It has worldwide usage and support from the iD editor, so it makes sense to document this. I have set the tag status on that page to "in use". Casey boy (talk) 13:27, 1 June 2021 (UTC)
- Ya, I would find the cause of the surge first. --Lectrician1 (talk) 23:34, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
building:part
IMHO building:part=courtyard would be ok as well. Currently 9 uses: https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/building%3Apart=courtyard —Dieterdreist (talk) 21:40, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
- It would be ok if a courtyard were a building part. But it's actually the opposite. It's space that is surrounded but not occupied by the building. --Fkv (talk) 21:58, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
- My stance on this is that the space is planned by the architect as part of the building, even if it has not any levels and is just enclosed space open to the sky it is still a part. Not rarely you will also find underground levels below the courtyard, but I’m not sure I would see these at part of the courtyard, at least not generally. Another aspect are courtyards that are covered with a roof, these would be parts also for you, right? —Dieterdreist (talk) 22:39, 31 May 2021 (UTC)