Talk:WikiProject Taiwan/Taiwan tagging
Language for road labels
I've been thinking about the language of the Key:ref tag a lot recently. My impression is that the average Taiwanese has problems figuring out what "TY59", "HC42", or "Fwy 6" are. So, I did a little survey among my Taiwanese friends and it turned out these English labels were indeed problematic. I asked for "Hwy 3", "PT91", "Fwy 6", "TY59", and "Youth Park Interchange" and the hit rate was close to zero. After all, the road signs I've seen exclusively have the Chinese version on it (or rely on shapes in the case of highways and freeways).
Now, the recommendation for road names is 'Chinese_Name (Romanized_Name)', which puts the focus on the Chinese name. I don't think the same scheme works for the ref tag, but to make the map easier to understand for the average user I would suggest:
instead of the current
I think this would make for a more consistent appearance and an easier-to-read map. And renderers that prefer English could still get the English abbreviations.
This has been a historic decision I made, when the osmarender renderer was still unable to display Chinese characters. In principle I agree with you, we can change that now. However, I'd like to discuss the ref tag for motorways and primary highways first. For tertiary roads we should indeed use the Chinese as default and provide the English one as additional tag. But keep the ref:zh tag for backwards compatibility.
For naming of National Roads (國道), we have the problem that we cannot render the plum shape. We therefor need to find a way to distinguish between National Road No. 1 (Fwy 1) and Provincial Highway No. 1 (Hwy 1). One could argue that they are rendered in different colors on the map and that that would be sufficiant. But I prefer to make the distinction more obvious. For the Chinese tag, we currently use ref:zh=國道1號 and ref:zh=台1線 respectively. Other countries with 'National Roads' or 'National Highways' use the 'N' in front of the number, e.g. in Switzerland. So, we could use ref=N1, or ref=N-1 for Freeways, and a plain ref=1 for provincial highways. We may even add a ref:en="National Highway 1" tag, for navighation software which reads the tags to the driver while driving. For the same purpose, we should keep the currently used ref:zh tags.
ref=N-1 ref:en=National Highway 1 ref:zh=國道1號
ref=1 ref:en=Provincial Highway 1 ref:zh=台1線
ref=桃59 ref:en=TY59 (or even 'Taoyuan 59') ref:zh=桃59 (for backwards compatibility)
--Mixmaxtw 05:57, 13 October 2012 (BST)
According to the discussion during mapping party:
ref=1 ref:en=Freeway 1 ref:zh=國道1號
ref=1 ref:en=Provincial Highway 1 ref:zh=台1線
ref=1甲 ref:en=Provincial Highway 1A ref:zh=台1甲線
ref=桃59 ref:en=TY59 ref:zh=桃59
Saru 07:13, 13 October 2012 (BST)
railway=station or halt?
台鐵將車站分為特等站、一等站、二等站、三等站、簡易站以及招呼站等等級。個人認為，車站標籤應該依照這個分類。而招呼站的字面意義與 halt 比較接近，所以我以為招呼站應該標成 halt，而其他車站則是 station。 阿里山森林鐵路和台糖鐵路又該怎麼辦？
Why Chinese and English in the name field?
Hello! First, sorry for English. Now my question: I wonder why the name field contains both Chinese and English? The thing is, not everyone is a native speaker of English, so he may not want to read the English translation. Second, maybe he can read Chinese and wants to read the Chinese only. Currently, OSM seems to shows either Chinese and English or English only.
I wonder, if it is not possible for the software to let the user create his own display of the name? E.g., we have a name[zh], a name[zh-pinyin], a name[en], a name[de] and maybe a name[nan] (for Taiwanese). The user can then set in his options:
for Taiwan, display the labels like:
or, if he can not read Chinese,
Or, if he wants to have the Taiwanese names:
The renderer would then only create the map, but the users pc would create the labels. Would this be possibly? I think, this would be the best way to offer labels, also for other, non-latin, regions.
That's exactly what the language tags are used for. The 'name' key is a fallback default which is used when the renderer cannot use the language specific key. Since the main openstreetmap page is unable to filter by language, I decided to put both, Chinese and English names into the 'name' tag. I also add localized tags, like name:en (English), name:zh (Chinese) and other languages.
It is possible by the rendering software to provide a filter for users to select which langauge they want to have displayed. This needs to be coded in the server software which provides the rendering. For the Taiwan's OSM server this feature has already been suggested.
name=龍安街 (Long'an St.) name:en=Long'an Street name:zh=龍安街 name:zh-pinyin=Lóng ān jīe name:nan=Leong'an ge (not sure about this one :P)
--Mixmaxtw 05:41, 13 October 2012 (BST)
The English street names in Taiwan are normally abbreviations. E.g. Yanping Rd. According to the OSM guidelines abbreviations should be avoided. Using OSMand as a navigation software I realized already that it can be annoying to have the abbreviated names since the TTS is not able to pronounce the abbreviation correctly. I wonder if this should be changed.
--Flofly 13:09, 19 October 2013 (BST)
I'm reviving this old topic.
I noticed that most of the major roadways are
name: Chinese (English)
(Let's call this scheme 1)
As a result, the mapnik render on www.openstreetmap.org shows "Chinese (English)", perhaps... to maximize accessibility, and I appreciate that. But Multilingual_names#Taiwan recommends
(Let's call this scheme 2)
And it clearly contradicts with WikiProject_Taiwan/Taiwan_tagging. At least to me, this makes more sense. If we apply scheme 1 to all roads, bus stops, and buildings, the map is going to clutter.
It appears that scheme 1 was established before 2012, which predates Map internationalization. Now there are tools to display open street map in a specific language. And more non-latin-script cities use scheme 2 (Beijing, Athens, Moscow, Tokyo. Seoul has scheme 1). So is it time to reconsider? --Fosius luminis (talk) 20:29, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
On the main page it has been proposed to use relations instead of the is-in tag. While the idea is good, the search engine on the main OSM site doesn't support this yet. In fact, the proposal under which this idea was filed has been inactive for quite some time. Therefor, we can surely add relations and implement this ourselves, but for compatibility, please continue to add is-in and isin:zh tags to *every* street, POI, school, park and whatever else has a name which should be searchable on the main OSM site. --Mixmaxtw 06:41, 13 October 2012 (BST)