Proposed features/Cave

natural=cave

To mark the entrance to natural caves.

Please note: This proposal was denied because of the ambiguous between cave entrance and caves, see the new tag Tag:natural=cave_entrance!

Proposed by; Unknown

Original proposer's comments:

Recently I walked around Cheddar (as in cheese) and found that there was more caves that just the tourist caves (which i marked tourism:attraction name:Cox's Cave for example) thus i needed a cave tag.

Re. comments: MikeCollinson, perhaps could include type:cave,pothole? or perhaps it could be included in a note tag stating if the cave/pothole is large/small suitable for caving/dangerous. or maybe it is best to have two tags?

Uses

Helpful for walkers/cavers some caves can be massively interesting although I would like to make clear by marking a cave one would not be marking it as a safe cave but just as a natural cave.

Rendering

i have roughly designed an icon but maybe someone with a bit more skill could design one, i hope you can all see what it's meant to be: or simpler alternative

<svg:symbol id="natural-cave" viewBox="0 0 100 100">
  <svg:path d="M 5,80 L 95,80"
      style="stroke:#000000;stroke-width:15;stroke-linecap:butt;" />
   <svg:path d="M 5,54.973981 L 20,54.973981 C 20,54.973981 24.923335,20.081237 50,19.973981 
                C 74.899122,19.86824 80,54.973981 80,54.973981 L 95,54.973981"
      style="stroke:#000000;stroke-width:15;stroke-linecap:butt;" />
</svg:symbol>

--Dido 10:10, 21 August 2007 (BST)

Comments

• I certainly welcome this as a useful addition. They are useful landmarks and interesting in their own right. To be a little pedantic, I suggest that the definition include the words "cave entrance" rather than just cave. I would also ask others whether this should include potholes as well - these are vertical holes in the ground common in some temperate limestone regions. I would be happy that "cave" should cover both, at least for the time being. MikeCollinson 11:35, 8 July 2007 (BST)

• This would be good; I'd like to see "natural=cave:entrance" for the entrance, and perhaps experienced cavers could suggest other features that a cave map should have? --Hawke 21:42, 12 July 2007 (BST)

• Julian Todd did a talk about surveying caves at SOTM conference. Ojw 12:33, 23 September 2007 (BST)

• Tangentially related, but if cave entrances are to be considered, someone needs to propose an equivalent for man made shafts, adits and vents ShakespeareFan00 23:36, 22 October 2007 (BST)

How about man_made=mine_entrance and leave precise classification to type=shaft|adits|vent ? Hmm, and even more tangentially, what about road / rail tunnel vents? MikeCollinson 14:32, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

• I have put together an alternative, as this proposal was defeated at vote: Proposed_features/Cave_entrance Myfanwy 01:19, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Vote

...

• I vote yes to this feature. --Metehyi 17:53, 17 August 2007 (BST)
• I vote yes --Outsider 17:43, 14 September 2007 (BST)
• I approve the natural=cave --Walley 16:18, 23 September 2007 (BST)
• I approve the proposal. MikeCollinson 19:36, 8 October 2007 (BST)
• I approve the proposal. David.earl 13:17, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
• Monty Cantsin!? disapproves of this proposal. 26 November 2007.

Rather:
  * cave=depth:10m
  * cave=entrance
  * cave=entrance:normal:z,theta,phi
  * cave=entrance:gradient:z,theta,phi
  * cave=entrance:diameter:2m
  * cave=entrance:polygon:...
  * etc.
For example pothole where the surrounding surface is more or less flat
and level at the equator on the mean of Greenwich would be a cave with 
a gradient of -1,0,0 and a normal of 1,0,0. If the cave entrance were
on a hill with a 45 degree incline, the normal might be 1,45,0.

• I approve the proposal. MontyCantsin's additional tags can easily coexist --Walley 14:19, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

 natural=yes and cave=yes might make sense. natural=cave is just silly.

• I approve the proposal. --Dido 15:42, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
• I approve the proposal. --Nils 21:39, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
• I approve the proposal. --Franc 21:56, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
• I approve the proposal. -- Ulfl 18:00, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
• I approve the proposal, natural=cave. Agree with Walley re MontyCantsin's additions (which I like, but should be a different cave= tag.) --Beej71 00:30, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
• I disapprove the proposal. Should a node or a way tagged with cave? How should a "cave-way" be rendered? Better: natural=cave_entrance (Node), natural=cave (way) for the cave itself. Florianschmitt 07:19, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
• I disapprove the proposal, but support natural=cave_entrance (Node) and natural=cave (way or area) for the cave itself. SlowRider 18:08, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
• I approve the proposal. --John0720:32, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

voting has ended. this proposal was defeated.