Talk:Proposed features/emergency access point

From OpenStreetMap Wiki
Jump to: navigation, search
  • I was thinking about that too as i have noted some and not added to the map yet (Hessen and Saarland) --- Frank 22:05, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
  • How about adding the number as a "ref" like you do for roads giving their numbers? But then what type would we choose to identify this access-point? Is "emergency access point" the official term for it? --- Stefan 21:55, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Somebody told me on IRC that ref is exclusively for roads so maybe that has to be checked before using the ref tag. About the name "emergency access point" I really don't have any idea if that is the official name for it (in English) but for something like that it's probably better to use a "description" like emergency_access_point because every country may has it's own name for it (if a country has it) and I think a description of the tag is a little more international then the official name of only one country.
  • That is false. Ref can be used on anything which has a reference identifier. This is the perfect use of it. --Hawke 16:54, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
  • I can see this being useful as a node, but not an area. --Nickvet419 11:41, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
  • I agree. --Hawke 16:54, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
  • Sorry, my bad! I copied the "tag"-section somewhere else and forgot to delet the area. Of course this is meant to be for nodes only (and doesn't make sens for lines or areas)
  • I am confused by your description. Is the a telephone (fixed connection, no need to dial) located at this position? If so, it should be under the telephone tag, maybe with a 'access=emergency' tag. If is it just a sign, does it fall under the 'distance=xx' tag or 'milestone=xx' (again possibly with a 'access=emergency' tag). --Mungewell 19:32, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
    • It's just a sign. They are placed at forest entries as a "house number". Originally the whole schema was designed to help lumberjack teams to give a position for an emergency call. (One of the team leaves the forrest, calls the emergency number on the mobile and gives the number on the sign as the position. Then he waits for the ambulance and leads them to the accident.) --- Frank 20:50, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
    • Like Frank already said it's really just a sign. No Telephone attached to it. But it is NOT a distance= or a milestone= since it doesn't say anything about a distance or something like that. It is only a number which is important for emergency purposes. It is hard for the ambulance to determent where you are in the forests. Instead of giving them directions you can say this number and they know exactly where you are. But you still have to call them from your own cell phone (or you have to find any kind of phone)
  • I agree with Stefan that the sign number could be in a 'ref=xx' tag. You can also use 'operator=aa' to denote who put the sign there. --Mungewell 19:32, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
    • It can't be compared to governmental reference numbers. It is of course governmental made but it is not a reference used by the government it is for emergency purpose ONLY so it can't be compared to a regular ref= (from my point of few). And I think that it is quite important to differ a regular reference numbers from a maybe even more important "emergency number". This has to stick out a little more then a regular number.
  • Nothing about ref=* suggests that it must be reference number used by the government. As long as there is a tag marking this thing as bein an "emergency access point", the ref can indicate what the number of that EAP is. And how it "sticks out" is up to the renderer, nothing to do with tagging. --Hawke 06:33, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
  • So do I understand you right that you suggest something like that: "emergency_access_point = yes" "ref = <NUMBER OF THE ACCESS POINT>"
  • Yep. Ideally, something else could be found that has common features to this, e.g. access_point=emergency (if there are some other kinds of similar access points), or emergency=access_point (if there are other "emergency things" that could be mapped)...but failing that, your example is exactly what I'm suggesting.
  • I like the idea of the emergency tag since there are probably more things that could be taged as "emergency" for example "emergency = telephone" or something like that. But that means that a new tag (emergency) has to be proposed before the access_point can be proposed/voted for/used. Is that right?

I updated the "proposed feature" page (inspired by Hawke) including the ref-tag and an alternative for the idea of an emergency tag. What do you think about it?

  • I thing this is a node of a highway, because I has to be reached by ambulances. So highway/emergency_access_point similar to highway/bus_stop. I would like to have a name for these points not only a ref. The icon for rendering needs to be different from Tag:amenity=pharmacy, maybe a cross with four arrows pointing from each corner - similar to meeting point. Actually this is a kind of meeting point. I would be very happy to have this on the map, because I often bike in forests :-) --Wieland 08:43, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
  • The highway idea is real.y good (if we can't find common ground on an emergency tag). But I still like to point out what Hawke said that there are maybe more things which could be taged with emergency. So an emergency tag might be a little more sustainable but I like the idea of the highway tag much more. It seam easier and more common used. But I think that the "ref" tag has to be used for this. The number on the sign is not a name it is definitely a reference number. "A 1" is also not a name for a street it is a reference number for a street. So why should the number on the sign should be a name? Talking about the meeting point thing it is probably a little hard to define. From my point of few it is more like a number to define your whereabouts (similar to a coordinate) you just have to tell the medics the nearest point and they know where you are but on the other hand it can also be defined as a meeting point (to tell the medics: "We meet at that point"). So I guess we are talking definitely about the same thing.
  • Sorry for not beeing clear. I want the ref tag for the number (XXX-123), but also want a name like "parking at blue lake" as an option. --Wieland 14:40, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
  • In general you are right by giving some more information about the area but this shouldn't be taged as a name.

other points with a similar function

the function partially (!) overlaps with meeting points in crowded places, assembly points for schools and companies (etc.) in case of fire alarms etc. and SOS-telephone points - any idea for a more general name? The node should carry for example an assembly_point tag, with an operator tag and a function tag ... a first idea: assembly_point=yes, operator=administration Rheinland Pfalz, function=emergency access, ref=123-456 or maybe for a company: assembly_point=yes, operator=company xy, function=emergency assembly point; just a first idea to see this theme more general ... greetings, -- Schusch 23:53, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

  • This is certainly not an assembly point. An accident mostly won't happen exactly at that point it is just important to know the nearest access point to your current location, so I don't think that it can be compared to an assembly point.
Maybe we should probose this emergency tag which hawke was thinking about. Whith this tag we could name your and my probosel like this:
emergency = assembly_point
emergency = emergency_access_point
Just so you know, I'm not attached to the "emergency" key. (in fact I think it's not very good, since emergency is already considered an access=* key.) If you can think of a better name for these general things, I'd be all about it. --Hawke 16:35, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
Oh, sorry, then I got you wrong. But right know I really like the idea of the highway tag (I written a few posts earlier.

Rendering icon

Wieland's idea of the rendering icon is really good, I like it a lot, but maybe make the arrows a little lighter that they can be seen a little better. Then another thing I was always thinking about is the actual number beneath the sign. So that the rendering engine prints the number. We have a few interactive rendering symbols on the map (just take a look at all the road numbers) so I guess that would be possible. wer-ist-roger 12:13, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

comments about the voting

Why highway for this ? and not simply "emergency_ref=[1]
  1. " ?
    It should be part of a road to be technically accessible by an ambulance.wer-ist-roger
    Like a bus_stop, but is this a reason to oppose? Come on, find a better reason.


    On the german-only "Talk-de" mailing-list someone proposed to optionaly tag the number this point can be reached under as well (if known). I propose to use "phone=+49-177-123456" for this to stay consistent with Tag:amenity=telephone. --MarcusWolschon 09:33, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

    • To be a little more precise: the attribute could/should contain the phone number of the next rescue coordination centre. Because there is no standardized phone number for emergency calls in parts of europe, the "correct" number may differ from place to place, and the local number is usually mentioned on the emergency access point signs. Especially in an emergency case when the casualty can't reach the point or it would take too much time to do so, it would be useful if the phone number would be available anyway. --Florianschmitt 10:01, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
    • I don't really know what you both mean by the telephonnumbers. Are you talking about the 112 or somthing like that? The sings that I have seen so fare hadn't had any telephone numbers on them. wer-ist-roger 23:40, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
    • The idea with the phonenumber is quite good but I would use another tag for it "phonenumber" = <NUMBER>
    • hmm - correct, "phone" as used with amenity:telephone has a different meaning. phonenumber is ok, what about "emergency_telephone_code" (see Node Node 290203832 (XML, Potlatch2, iD, JOSM, history))? LEO says that this is a translation for "Notrufnummer". --Florianschmitt 22:35, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
    • This looks actully quite good. I mean I don't fight about the way it's being named. The most important thing is that you get a chance to tag the phone number if there is one on the sign. "emergency_telephone_code" describes it quite good so I think that is an appropriat tag. If nobody comes up with a better way to tag I suggest to start a wiki-page about "highway = emergency_access_point" which includes information like the refference number, phone number and what I've seen on the node you linked there was also the operater taged (which is also a quite good idea). I also just started a wiki page which can be accessed directly from the map features page: wer-ist-roger 19:58, 18 September 2008 (UTC)