Humanitarian OSM Team/Meetings/TrainingWG/07 September 2014

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10:41 Tallguy: For those who will be here for the Training Working Group meeting later, I have added a few (lot - sorry!) of comments to
10:41 Tallguy: https://hackpad.com/Discussion-ideas-for-HOTs-training-working-group-mYgJQEbueIi
11:02 Tallguy: Hi, Claire, sorry don't know your username - are you here?
11:03 Tallguy: ...... OK - I think this is now 1500hrs UTC, can I check who is here for the Training Working Group meeting
11:04 bgirardot: Hi, I'm here
11:04 Tallguy: @dan4dm are you also here?
11:04 RussDeffner: on my phone, so will try to follow
11:06 Tallguy: OK - not many of us here, suggest we don't form a big enough forum for decisions, but we can at least discuss
11:07 RussDeffner: agree
11:08 Tallguy: bgirardot - is there anything in particular you wanted to discuss?
11:08 bgirardot: Well. I agree with most of what you have on the discussion list
11:09 bgirardot: I think maybe priortizing some of the ideas would be good since it takes someone to impliment them
11:09 bgirardot: I also think the TM2 is pretty important to the overall work HOT does, it is kind of the center of the "community"
11:10 bgirardot: And I had a question about the OSM legal working group
11:10 bgirardot: Thats it for me for topics
11:10 Tallguy: Hopefully someone can answer the legal question - fire away
11:12 bgirardot: I was thinking of making an imagery guide, how to identify stuff from imagery
11:12 bgirardot: schools, roads, mines, crops, etc
11:12 bgirardot: But we need the legal wg to deal with using screen shots of Bing imagery
11:12 bgirardot: I was just wondering if anyone knew of discussion about that previously
11:12 bgirardot: or knew someone specifically on the LWG to send the request to
11:13 bgirardot: (classify roads more than just identify)
11:14 RussDeffner: think legal has a mailing list
11:14 bgirardot: oh, i'll see if i can find it
11:16 bgirardot: Now that I look closer, I think it is called "Licensing Working Group"
11:16 Tallguy: If it's any help, this page http://learnosm.org/en/beginner/more-about-josm/ has a screenshot with Bing imagery visible
11:16 bgirardot: with an email address of legal@openstreetmap.org
11:17 bgirardot: found their mailing list, thank you
11:20 RussDeffner: not bad idea to run it by them, but we might be able to use screenshots for teaching without specific permissions
11:20 AndrewBuck: Yeah, and I think we probably can, it was my suggestion to ask first before we make a bunch though.
11:21 bgirardot: Ya, I think so too, but really there is specific language in the existing agree that would suggest we can not do that.
11:21 AndrewBuck: There is a bit of difference between one image, primarily showing josm, and a great many images primarily showing the bing imagery and stuff in it.
11:22 bgirardot: Specifically it states: that we can not "make a local non-cache copy, of any content provided through the service" which is what screen shots of their imagery would be I am afraid.
11:22 AndrewBuck: Hmm, interesting..
11:23 Tallguy: very good point - I think I need to pause in what I have been looking to create until there is an answer on this.
11:23 RussDeffner: oh, then we probably need to create a guide for creating LearnOSM content
11:24 bgirardot: Ya, I am sure it is ok with Bing, it just wasn't contemplated at the time. So hopefully it can get resolved quickly
11:24 bgirardot: I have a letter for license WG, I'll send it to the HOT mailing list so you can look it over?
11:25 AndrewBuck: that sounds fine, alrhough I am sure it is probably fine already.
11:26 RussDeffner: you could just send it cc to hot
11:26 bgirardot: Ok, I'll just do as RussDeffner suggests.
11:28 RussDeffner: on another topic, was thinking we could start a training/certificate for activation coordinators
11:30 RussDeffner: and having it where an existing coordinator have to check off various tasks
11:30 RussDeffner: of course we should coordinate eith the AWG
11:31 Tallguy: Although I'm in both groups, I don't know enough to comment - it does sound interesting though
11:31 bgirardot: Where are activation coordinators usually from? Meaning part of HOT already or they come from other, outside organizations and get an account in the HOT system?
11:32 RussDeffner: hot
11:32 bgirardot: I see. So they act as liasons with outside groups?
11:32 RussDeffner: mostly members, but i wouldnt rule out a volunteer
11:33 RussDeffner: Andy? want to summarize what you do?
11:34 Tallguy: Is it possible to have someone with the 'publish' ability but not the other parts of the role?
11:35 RussDeffner: so the 'cert' would basically mean you have been trained on all the aspects of an activation
11:36 RussDeffner: the TM, liaison with partners, maybe some PR training, etc
11:39 bgirardot: I think it is a good idea. Especially the PR part, helping the partner get the word out about how to help with the activation goals etc
11:39 RussDeffner: just something to ponder, I'll try to attend the next AWG meeting and bring it up there
11:41 RussDeffner: first would be to get an exhaustive list of things a coordinator needs to know
11:41 Tallguy: Certainly it appears to be one of the most important part of the process, so you need to ensure whoever is doing it has a good idea of what to do, or avoid!
11:42 bgirardot: Ya, it is a varied area of responsiblity when done correctly as well
11:42 bgirardot: working a lot of different audiences to make the activation successful
11:45 bgirardot: I am taking some summary notes on this meeting as well, if you are not already Tallguy
11:45 bgirardot: brief summary notes
11:46 Tallguy: No, I'm glad you're doing the honours, thanks
11:47 Tallguy: Can i suggest we check with others in the group whether the time & day contribute to the problem, or if it is just internet problems or .....?
11:47 bgirardot: Good idea
11:48 Tallguy: I'm just going to get a coffee - back in a few minutes
11:48 bgirardot: Aye, you are up next :)
11:49 bgirardot: RussDeffner, have you followed along with the task manger functionality discussion on the hot mailing list ?
11:50 RussDeffner: yes, a bit
11:50 Tallguy: back again
11:51 bgirardot: To my mind the TM is really an important tool
11:51 RussDeffner: definitely need to get some links/embed of LearnOSM, maybe thats where this wg could help
11:52 bgirardot: a big part of our ability to grow our the successes of hot
11:52 bgirardot: for a lot of the mappers it is the only interaction with the "community" they have
11:54 RussDeffner: i think it would help the tech wg if the other groups would do mock ups
11:55 tuxayo: hello!
11:55 bgirardot: Oh ya, good idea
11:55 bgirardot: Hi tuxayo
11:55 bgirardot: And for me a priortized list
11:55 RussDeffner: so we could suggest how/where to include training stuff, community/communications could do recruit/retain
11:55 bgirardot: And maybe they can give us feedback on how difficult some of the items are
11:57 Tallguy: Do we have any statistics about how many 'newly registered on TM mappers' continue to map?
11:58 RussDeffner: not sure if we have now, but might be possible
11:58 bgirardot: Not that I know of
11:59 RussDeffner: look at first and most recent task submission
12:00 bgirardot: If that is tracked at all. The TM might not record any information like that.
12:00 Tallguy: I'd like to know if this type of event http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Missing_Maps_Party_August_2014 produces better long term results than the self teach packages
12:00 tuxayo: Nice article about HOT: http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/data-mine/2014/08/28/want-to-help-fight-ebola-heres-how great to see bgirardot quotes ^^
12:01 bgirardot: Oh cool tuxayo, nice to hear it turned out good
12:03 bgirardot: Oh that event looks great
12:03 bgirardot: I have to guess the retention is better for sure short term from an event like that
12:04 bgirardot: But once everyone is online and in their places doing mapping, it takes effort to keep up the community feel and support
12:05 RussDeffner: in person is better i would say, but still have lots of people coming to the TM via articles and such
12:05 Tallguy: I agree, hence my suggestion on the hackpad about a 'training task' to break people in gently. With the big squares it takes a long time to finish, several mappers seem to be involved in the mapping, and then it takes forever to try to sort out feedback
12:06 RussDeffner: ok, have to run; look forward to notes, etc
12:07 bgirardot: Ok, thank you very much RussDeffner, see you later
12:07 RussDeffner: thanks all!
12:07 bgirardot: Ya, the training tasks are a great idea. I also do not think they take any programming resources at all.
12:07 Tallguy: I think it would be good to wind up now - bgirardot, do you need me to do anything?
12:08 bgirardot: I just want to priortize the list of stuff we think the TM should do. Some of the items are really quite involved programatically and some are very little work at all.
12:08 bgirardot: I'd like to see some progress on any of them so I'd like to figure out how to make making that progress easier
12:09 bgirardot: Can we work on that off line somehow?
12:09 tuxayo: What is TM?
12:10 bgirardot: By the way, it includes me checking out the code and learning to use github a bit better, I used to be a programmer, but have not done it for a long time, but can at least help contribute with less complicated tasks.
12:10 Tallguy: My programming skills are 0, but I agree prioritizing would be good. I'm in the AWG Tuesday so can possible bring some to that WG
12:10 bgirardot: tuxayo: It is the Task Manager, we are talking about ways to make it more useful for new people to hot mapping
12:11 tuxayo: ok
12:11 bgirardot: Feel free to offer input on what might make it more useful for a new mapper tuxayo
12:11 Tallguy: OK, I need to leave now
12:12 bgirardot: I'll see if I can create a hack pad with just a list and we can sort it out priority off line asyc
12:12 bgirardot: async
12:12 bgirardot: See you later Tallguy
12:12 bgirardot: Thank you for running the meeting
12:12 tuxayo: See you later
12:12 Tallguy: Thanks, bye all
12:18 tuxayo: What I think could help a new mapper would be a message if the user has for example less than 5 changesets or any other criteria that recommends to checkout a page (on the wiki) with a very condensed mapping instructions to avoid the most common mistakes. Eg how to tag a building, a highway(with a link to the Africa guide lines page for more details) and other critical things with keeping it very short so most people would read
12:18 tuxayo: it.
12:20 tuxayo: I find quite often building tagged area=yes or simply nothing
12:23 bgirardot: Oh that is a good idea
12:24 bgirardot: Based on how many change sets or other criteria to remind them to check out the some short resource
12:29 tuxayo: short resource ?
12:35 bgirardot: Just something like you said, short, very minimum of how to mark and tag the things that get mapped most often