Humanitarian OSM Team/Meetings/TrainingWG/3 August 2015
HOT Training Working Group Meeting 2015-08-03
Meeting started by TomT5454 at 18:00:19 UTC. The full logs are available at http://dogodigi.net/logs/hot/2015/hot.2015-08-03-18.00.log.html .
Approval of agenda
The proposed agenda, with additions by Russell Deffner, was approved.
Approval of previous meeting minutes
The minutes of the 20 July meeting were approved as correct.
Actions out of the minutes
Progress on reviews
Nick Allen provided a progress report by E-mail.
- Front page labels have been altered in all languages so they fit better within the coloured buttons -  refers. Currently on staging site for viewing before passing on to the main site.
- Some discussion about the naming of the yellow button and link from the home page - Nick would like your views on this. Can be seen at  Currently displays as HOT Disaster Mapping pointing to nepal.md. He is now considering Aid Agency Mapping, pointing to aid_agency_mapping.md
- Nick is awaiting updates on any reviews (tab available on ) of modules that are taking place.
- Wiki at  has been updated with guidance concerning images for LearnOSM.
Russell Deffner gave his opinion that we should return to the 'original concept' of yellow=intermediate/advanced and blue=workshops (but expand/shift that to coordination). With regard to reviewing, he had not made much progress because he had focussed on HOT Training Centre development.
Steve Bower noted that the front page needs reworking in any case. He said he would be reviewing some of the French modules to ensure they were consistent with the English ones. Tom Taylor and Blake Girardot said they would work on JOSM-related modules. Ralph Aytoun reported that he had been working on the iD Editor and a lot of the graphics there are out of date so he has been busy recapturing and updating text.
Progress on translations
The Chair inadvertently failed to cover this item. Nick Allen's report, referred to above, stated the following:
- Translations on Transifex are currently visible on the staging site & will be transferred to main site shortly:
- Norwegian now has correct labels on 'buttons' and several modules are nearly completely translated - thanks to Anders
- Netherlands language has been added with all corrected labels, but at this stage only intro to JOSM has been completed. Thanks go to Milo van der Linden.
- Field papers, GPS & several other modules have been added for translation.
- Although Nick can add & update resources on Transifex, he has no means of viewing the translators. If you've requested access as a translator, he will not have been notified and have no control over it at present.
He intends to send an email in the next day or so to the general HOT mailing list advising all that we are using Transifex & would welcome translators there.
Progress on Master List
Steve Bower sent a report by E-mail in advance of the meeting. He made the following points:
- He reviewed the Google Docs learning guides (English and French) that are referenced from the LearnOSM Wiki (on GitHub) and determined the correspondence between these original Google Docs and the current LearnOSM material, as follows.
- The French learning guides Google Docs all match the current French LearnOSM modules. He did not review word-for-word, but page-to-page. There are some minor formatting differences, and some Google Docs have a “table of contents” at the top that was not brought into LearnOSM (consistent with LearnOSM). He believes the French Google Docs are thus all historical, and could be archived.
- The English Learning Guides (Google Docs) generally match the French versions, with exceptions – see the first table in Steve's report, which he has added to the LearnOSM “re-org” spreadsheet .
- In the "re-org" spreadsheet he has also added a proposed Index of Guides, Modules, and Sub-Topics - see the "Index (3-Aug-2015)" sheet. He imagines a "master" index on which you can expand(+)/collapse(-) individual branches, and then select which you want to view. He wrote a macro so you can change the level you want to see in the yellow input cell (1=Guides, 2=Modules, 3=Sub-Topics), but it's very slow and he does not know if it will work for others. In practice you can expand just the Sub-Topics to see what's covered, like the second image in his report.
Russell Deffner suggested that the Activator Role entries could be removed, because they would be covered by Moodle courses that referred back to the necessary LearnOSM modules. Steve indicated that these were only placeholders and Russell was free to do what he liked with them.
Steve further explained his ideas for a master index as part of the front page. He may work with Suzan to do an HTML mock-up. Ralph recalled that Suzan had suggested using a drop-down menu. It was agreed that it would be desirable to keep navigation consistent rather than varying it from page to page as LearnOSM does now. Blake note that hover-overs work only for mouse-based interfaces, not for tablets or smart phones. Tom Taylor wondered if sub-topics were too much depth. Steve suggested these were really placeholders for module descriptions rather than navigable entities.
The "guides" in the spreadsheet are the major topic areas Steve envisions. Tom commented that perhaps there should be separate sections for iD and JOSM. Ralph noted the absence of a discussion of tags, and some ideas were put forward on that topic.
Launch of activation school
Russell Deffner reported on the launch of the Activation School. It is in an early state, but provides the foundation for further development. He is looking for subject content experts to help develop the actual course work. E-mail him at Russell.Deffner @ hotosm.org if you have expertise in one or more of the areas and are willing to help. Ralph volunteered his services.
Blake brought up issues he was having with documentation for Vespucci, an Android editor for OSM. The document that was submitted to him is really part of the application documentation, describing what each command does. His feeling was that it did not in itself belong in LearnOSM, but LearnOSM would benefit from an usage guide with use cases. There was some discussion about promoting one application over others, with the suggestion that we should be willing to promote 'best of breed'.
As one aspect of this discussion Tom noted that we may have to figure out how to interweave OS differences into the module structure.
Next meeting is scheduled for August 17. Time will be determined by poll.
Meeting ended at 19:44:11 UTC.
People present (lines said)
- russdeffner (96)
- SteveBower (75)
- TomT5454 (64)
- BlakeGirardot (36)
- RAytoun (7)
- hot_meetbot` (3)
IRC Log (times are UTC)
18:00:19 <TomT5454> #startmeeting HOT Training Working Group
18:00:19 <hot_meetbot`> Meeting started Mon Aug 3 18:00:19 2015 UTC
and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is TomT5454. Information
about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:00:19 <hot_meetbot`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
18:00:19 <hot_meetbot`> The meeting name has been set to 'hot_training_working_group'
18:00:52 <BlakeGirardot> Hi, Im here for the working group meeting.
18:01:07 <TomT5454> Did you have a good holiday?
18:02:12 <SteveBower> Hello all
18:02:55 <RAytoun> Hello Folks
18:03:11 <TomT5454> Guess we're waiting for Tyler and Anwar, maybe Suzan
18:03:13 <BlakeGirardot> I did, thank you for asking :)
18:03:33 <TomT5454> Nick said he might not make it
18:03:59 <TomT5454> Russell, how wwere the minutes this time?
18:04:20 <russdeffner> sorry, just getting back to thte computer
18:04:30 <russdeffner> much easier to follow
18:06:05 <TomT5454> OK, agenda is at Hackpad.
I see Russell made an addition, thank you. Is the agenda approved?
18:06:56 <russdeffner> umm, something weird with that link
18:07:30 <TomT5454> Your link or the agenda?
18:07:32 <BlakeGirardot> worked for me, maybe the period at
the end is messing it up
18:07:46 <TomT5454> That would be it
18:08:47 <SteveBower> I'm reviewing last mtg's minutes now...
18:08:48 <TomT5454> OK, approval of minutes of July 20 meeting. Any errors?
18:08:56 <russdeffner> ah yes 18:08:57 <russdeffner> Agenda
18:09:11 <TomT5454> #topic Approval of minutes
18:09:53 <SteveBower> minutes look good to me
18:10:08 <TomT5454> Anyone else?
18:10:36 <TomT5454> OK, minutes approved
18:11:02 <TomT5454> #topic Actions out of the minutes
18:11:24 <TomT5454> Progress on reviews?
18:12:22 <russdeffner> Since Nick isn't here...
18:12:30 <TomT5454> Guess we can look at the auditing spreadsheet
18:12:43 <russdeffner> I would just like to point out the discussion
on the 'yellow and blue' boxes
18:13:33 <russdeffner> #idea I (Russ) think we should return to the 'original
concept' of yellow=intermediate/advanced and blue=workshops (but expand/shift
that to coordination)
18:14:35 <russdeffner> #info I (russ) decided to put focus on HOT Training Center
dev and have not made much progress reviewing the Activation Curriculum
related LearnOSM content
18:15:23 <TomT5454> Just to be clear, is this on Nick's spreadsheet or Steve's
18:15:49 <SteveBower> Re yellow/blue boxes, I think the front page needs an
overhaul, as we've discussed. So any fixes may be temporary.
18:16:03 <TomT5454> Yellow and blue are just symbols -- could use some other colours
18:16:22 <russdeffner> the sheet you just linked - review tab - you'll see
I've put me as the reviewer for the entire coordination section
18:16:33 <TomT5454> Yes
18:16:36 <russdeffner> lots of that will need updated/changed due to Activation Protocol
18:17:13 <TomT5454> And this is where you're recruiting
18:17:23 <SteveBower> I plan to review some of the French modules, will sign up
for that eventually - ties in with making them consistent with English & other languages
18:17:28 <russdeffner> also most of the osm-data and map-design sections are
'Activator Role' related
18:18:37 <russdeffner> @Tom - yes, but 'expert review' will need to be
both LearnOSM and HOT Training Center
18:18:43 <russdeffner> as they work back and forth
18:18:52 <russdeffner> will discuss under new business
18:18:58 <TomT5454> OK
18:20:42 <russdeffner> @Steve - so also reading your email
("LearnOSM French modules, Google Docs modules, master index" :)...
18:20:42 <TomT5454> I've been tied up with personal stuff, but it really
looks like Ralph and Nick are the only ones signed up besides you. I'll go
in for what I can of JOSM
18:20:57 <BlakeGirardot> I'll do some of them as well.
18:21:04 <BlakeGirardot> mobile mapping probably
18:21:11 <russdeffner> I see you are recomending to 'retire' the intermediate
and advanced; but that content does exist in French, right?
18:21:59 <RAytoun> I have been doing the iD Editor and a lot of the graphics
there are out of date so am busy recapturing and updating text
18:22:13 <russdeffner> so I'm thinking that once we get those modules into
english/other languages we will use those
18:22:27 <SteveBower> I'll cover that under Master List
18:22:34 <russdeffner> oh, ok
18:22:50 <SteveBower> (the relevant material would be moved into other sections)
18:23:47 <TomT5454> Should we turn to the Master List now?
18:24:07 <russdeffner> so, Tom - I guess the update here is that Nick and Steve
sent theirs vs email, I haven't really do anything :)
18:24:38 <TomT5454> OK, I'll capture the points in the E-mails as I did last time.
18:24:55 <SteveBower> OK, Master List. I sent an email  to the Training WG at 2:00
with some updates.
18:25:05 <TomT5454> #topic Master List
18:25:13 <SteveBower> I can get some feedback now - here's the gist of it
18:25:22 <SteveBower> In short, I reviewed the Google Docs learning guides
(English and French) that are referenced from the LearnOSM Wiki (on GitHub):
18:25:31 <SteveBower>  (see Pages index to the right)
18:25:41 <SteveBower> The French Google Docs all match the current French
LearnOSM modules. I did not review word-for-word, but page-to-page. There are
minor formatting differences.
18:26:15 <SteveBower> Thus I believe the French Google Docs are all historical,
and could be archived (I still have a couple to check, but found no new material in the others)
18:26:42 <SteveBower> The English Learning Guides (Google Docs) generally match the
French versions, with some exceptions
18:27:04 <SteveBower> So most of the French modules already have translations,
but as Google Docs
18:27:18 <SteveBower> I compiled my notes in a table in my email, which is also
in the “re-org” spreadsheet, here:
18:27:24 <SteveBower> 
18:27:53 <SteveBower> I made recommendations for each English Google Doc – I think
most should be reviewed, then incorporated into LearnOSM
18:28:38 <SteveBower> Once we agree on where to incorporate those into LearnOSM
(and for the French modules), we can remove the “Intermediate” and “Advanced”
sections, which are an old classification
18:29:18 <BlakeGirardot> so the french wiki docs and the french learnosm
pages are essentially duplicates at this point?
18:29:21 <russdeffner> ah, yes that makes sense
18:29:24 <SteveBower> (we have thunder, lightning and hail and rain
here - if you lose me you'll know why)
18:29:38 <russdeffner> quickly then...
18:29:38 <SteveBower> @Blake yes
18:29:49 <russdeffner> you can basically remove the 'Activator Roles'
18:29:59 <BlakeGirardot> Aye, then I am for removing or archiving the
wiki versions to reduce confusion.
18:30:07 <SteveBower> yep
18:30:23 <SteveBower> @russ - remove "activator roles" from where?
18:30:34 <russdeffner> details later, but basically the 'role courses' will
live in moodle and reference LearnOSM modules or sections
18:30:48 <SteveBower> ok
18:30:58 <russdeffner> you have "HOT Activator Roles" at the bottom of guides and modules
18:31:25 <SteveBower> ah - yes, I had proposed that as a place for your work.
You can go ahead and remove, given your plans.
18:31:36 <SteveBower> that was a place-keeper
18:31:49 <russdeffner> Tyler and I chatted about this in general and we do
'agree' that LearnOSM should be 'less HOT oriented'
18:32:32 <russdeffner> done
18:32:42 <SteveBower> The HOT-specific modules could be under HOT Guides
(Guides are top-level containers, modules are actual training modules)
18:33:12 <TomT5454> OK, I was just going to ask
18:33:15 <SteveBower> "Coordination" is part HOT, part not
18:34:06 <SteveBower> The 'Modules' sheet (in the re-org spreadsheet) is huge,
but I needed it to get everything organized in my head
18:34:23 <SteveBower> In the "re-org" spreadsheet I also added a proposed
Index of Guides, Modules, and Sub-Topics - see the sheet "Index (3-Aug-2015)"
- created from the 'Modules' sheet
18:34:23 <russdeffner> so, I just added the description on guides
18:34:32 <SteveBower> good, thx
18:34:43 <russdeffner> basically we will use HOT as a 'case study' for
demonstrating 'best practices'
18:35:01 <russdeffner> but the section should be useful for mapathons, universities, etc
18:35:22 <SteveBower> tricky to avoid redundant material
18:36:02 <SteveBower> is that beyond the activation modules? best practices
for non-activation tasks?
18:36:18 <russdeffner> yes, so as we talked via email - I think there is 3 or 4 modules in coordination that need to be 'merged/updated/retired' etc
18:36:34 <SteveBower> ok
18:37:18 <russdeffner> but it became easier to work on the 'new' material
in moodle first, then I'll return to LearnOSM
18:37:43 <SteveBower> So the index I added to the re-org sheet is food for
thought - this has all the modules (existing, English and French), organized
pretty much like the current top-level guides
18:38:01 <SteveBower> I envision a "master" index on which you can expand(+)/collapse(-)
individual branches, and then select which you want to view from there
18:38:19 <SteveBower> As part of the front page
18:38:27 <SteveBower> Is that what others envision?
18:39:00 <TomT5454> I'm intrigued that Spatial Reference Systems is
in the Beginner's guide -- never got into that myself in my mapping experience
18:39:28 <SteveBower> oops - I actually moved that to Using OSM Data, after
I created the index
18:39:43 <SteveBower> Good stuff, but not needed for basic OSM tasks
18:39:44 <TomT5454> Oh, OK
18:39:54 <SteveBower> in my opinion - all open to discussion of course
18:40:16 <SteveBower> good catch - you'll see it under Using OSM Data in the 'Modules' sheet
18:40:36 <russdeffner> Hmm, haven't put much thought into frontpage redesign
18:40:44 <TomT5454> As a JOSM user, I trust the Beginner's section does point at JOSM
18:40:46 <SteveBower> I think it would help to show the sub-topics or a brief
description of each module, so the user can better understand the contents.
That could be shown when expanded.
18:40:54 <SteveBower> Or hover over, etc.
18:40:56 <russdeffner> I guess I would say we need some 'mock-ups'
18:41:25 <TomT5454> Wonder if this is where Suzan shows her stuff
18:41:26 <russdeffner> maybe next gsoc or outreachy could be a UI testing
like with the TM now
18:41:51 <SteveBower> @Tom I don't recall, but it should, under "next steps"
or "more info". The Beg's section was stripped down, so would be good to review with "next steps"
18:42:33 <SteveBower> I could put together an HTML mockup, with expand/collapse
functionality. I wanted to do that for this mtg but didn't have time. Could work with Suzan on that.
18:43:36 <russdeffner> that'd be great Steve
18:43:54 <SteveBower> It's common to have the full navigation pane on the left,
and I like that paradigm. Currently the LearnOSM index (on the left) changes with
each navigation - was confusing to me starting out. I wanted the overall picture.
18:44:01 <RAytoun> @Steve, Suzan suggested the drop down menu a while back with a very good example.
18:44:11 <TomT5454> It would be a good focal point for bringing everything into line, I think
18:44:45 <SteveBower> Yes, drop-down menus are pretty much functionally equivalent to me
- works for me
18:44:50 <BlakeGirardot> I tend to agree with steve, it is better to see as much
of the site structure as possible rather than hiding things or having the navigation change.
18:44:59 <russdeffner> Let's just make sure that we are going through the process of
getting full community input when we do anything 'major'
18:45:02 <SteveBower> You can't see it all at once, but can hover over each top-level Guide
18:45:11 <SteveBower> absolutely
18:45:35 <BlakeGirardot> hover overs are problems for any non mouse based interface
18:45:43 <BlakeGirardot> tablets, or phones
18:45:58 <SteveBower> The index in the re-org sheet is a start, but very cumbersome
to work with. I'll put together a better prototype, if no objections
18:46:06 <SteveBower> @Blake good pt
18:47:05 <SteveBower> I wrote a macro in the 'Index' sheet that revises the index
if you put another level in the yellow input cell - does that work for any of you? Just curious.
18:48:11 <SteveBower> A couple questions then:
18:48:50 <TomT5454> I'm thinking sub-topics might be too much depth
18:49:37 <SteveBower> Sub-Topics would not be selectable (for navigation)
- consider them a place keeper for some sort of module description
18:49:55 <TomT5454> OK
18:50:15 <SteveBower> Question: How do the top-level Guides look to you all?
Beginner's, JOSM, Mobile mapping, Using OSM Data, Advanced Topics, etc.?
We would want future added material to fit in these containers.
18:51:45 <TomT5454> Generally OK. My gut reaction on the specifics of
Id vs JOSM documentation is that each should have its own module
18:52:32 <russdeffner> Think I personally would need more time to think
about whether or not that captures all the possible content in the 'best way',
but agree it's generally good
18:52:53 <SteveBower> @Tom makes sense
18:53:31 <SteveBower> maybe keep intro iD material in Beginner's Guide, but more
advanced iD editing in its own
18:54:55 <SteveBower> "Advanced Topics" is a catch-all. Would include some but not
all of the French "Advanced Level" modules
18:55:43 <TomT5454> Let's think of our potential audiences here, as listed on the WG page.
18:56:02 <SteveBower> To wrap up, I feel like I've now reviewed, at least
skimmed, all of the existing material - LearnOSM and English & French Google
Docs. They are all in the re-org sheet, so can be further organized there.
18:56:29 <TomT5454> What placeholders might you need for particular groups of stakeholders?
18:56:57 <RAytoun> I have not noticed a section or module explaining the OSM Tags
18:57:03 <SteveBower> Good question. There are notes in the 'Modules' sheet for
some specific questions.
18:57:30 <russdeffner> ah, @RAytoun - that may get generated during AC dev
18:57:35 <SteveBower> @Ray - there's not much on tags, just a bit in JOSM.
I have a placeholder for a more detailed module at the bottom of the 'Modules' sheet
18:57:53 <SteveBower> sorry @Ralph
18:58:09 <RAytoun> OK I have been called worse
18:58:38 <TomT5454> Yes, I think that has to be done well
18:59:00 <russdeffner> or I should say we are for sure covering tags in the
'Data Role' course, so may also generate LearnOSM material to complement
18:59:23 <SteveBower> Yes, tag training, and pointing to other materials, is really needed
18:59:25 <TomT5454> Where we explain the nature of OSM -- database, not map itself
- we have to go into tags
18:59:42 <SteveBower> So a module under "Using OSM Data"
18:59:52 <russdeffner> potentially
19:00:06 <russdeffner> I do need to get shifting gears, so should I cover this now?
19:00:16 <SteveBower> I'm done, go ahead
19:00:39 <TomT5454> OK, go ahead. Nick reported on translation in his E-mail
and I'll capture that
19:00:49 <russdeffner> ok, great
19:00:54 <TomT5454> #topic Activation school
19:00:57 <russdeffner> I'm pretty excited about this
19:01:21 <russdeffner> if you haven't seen the link already...
19:01:23 <russdeffner> Activation School
19:01:35 <russdeffner> the Activation 101 course is 'live'
19:01:47 <russdeffner> very much alpha stage, but you can now 'enroll and complete' it
19:02:38 <russdeffner> next up will be to get 'skeletons' onto the site for the
9 Activator 'speciallist' roles and then the Activation Leadership course
19:03:42 <russdeffner> The 'material' will be in gdocs, 'always' start at the
index, as it sort of 'flows' from links there...
19:03:43 <russdeffner> 
19:04:28 <TomT5454> What does Moodle do for you?
19:04:43 <russdeffner> Basically it is an 'online school'
19:05:14 <russdeffner> So in our case it really is the first time HOT has
organized training for our volunteers
19:05:21 <TomT5454> Presenting, tracking progress. Or is it also for course development
19:05:40 <russdeffner> and with Board approval, will become 'required training'
to participate at the 'coordination level' of an Activation
19:05:57 <russdeffner> still of course will not have any requirement to 'just map'
19:06:22 <TomT5454> Totally makes sense
19:06:41 <russdeffner> @Tom, basically it fulfills all of this...
19:06:43 <russdeffner> 
19:06:52 <TomT5454> Are coordinators paid or purely volunteers?
19:07:03 <russdeffner> volunteers
19:07:24 <russdeffner> it could potentially become 'required training'
for HOT paid things as well
19:07:26 <SteveBower> great stuff
19:07:28 <TomT5454> Very generous ones from what I've seen of some
19:08:00 <russdeffner> yes, HOT rock stars I like to call them
19:08:31 <russdeffner> but this is really intended to build up the support team
19:09:01 <russdeffner> lots of people want to help at the coordination
level, but training them 'on the fly' hasn't worked in a lot of cases
19:09:33 <russdeffner> and even those who have 'been trained' we don't have any
'tracking/communication/coordination' for the long-term
19:09:58 <russdeffner> moodle will also allow the Activation Leads
to know who is trained and how to get a hold of them.
19:10:10 <TomT5454> You'll need some sort of refreshment requirement
19:10:12 <russdeffner> haven't looked into it much but maybe also scheduling...
19:10:52 <russdeffner> yes, so moodle also allows us to 'control'
the roster, i.e. need for 'refresher' course, how long
'certification'/badges last, etc.
19:11:51 <russdeffner> and we're working with the developers of Geobadges
to see if there might be some 'cross-brand'/co-op opportunity, but
moodle works with Open Badges 'out of the box'
19:12:08 <TomT5454> OK, congratulations on your forward movement.
19:12:14 <russdeffner> thanks...
19:12:30 <russdeffner> yes, so the key point here is I am looking for
more 'content experts'
19:12:54 <russdeffner> I have at least one person identified for each
course, but the more the merrier
19:13:26 <SteveBower> Russ, where you see the need to change
the content of existing modules, pls let me know or update notes
in the re-org spreadsheet. I'd like to keep that current.
19:13:58 <russdeffner> #info email me Russell.Deffner @ hotosm.org
if you have expertise in one or more areas and would like to help
build the training content
19:14:38 <russdeffner> @Steve - will do, also feel free to edit the
'related LearnOSM' modules on the course index; let me check permissions...
19:14:49 <TomT5454> You may need to reach a broader aUDIENCE -- AT LEAST THE HOT list
19:15:05 <SteveBower> ok
19:15:38 <russdeffner> @Tom - yep, have been 'slowly' broadening the net
19:15:41 <TomT5454> I'd love to be able to disable the Caps Lock key
19:16:10 <russdeffner> actually have already contacted DWG folks
and will email Imports and Tagging lists once there is more 'reviewable' material
19:16:53 <BlakeGirardot> dwg?
19:17:28 <russdeffner> last note on the topic - typically my 'drafting
format' is italics for stuff I'm not 'set on' and normal font when it is more 'decided'
19:17:43 <russdeffner> @Blake OSMF Data Working Group (Paul and Ben)
19:18:01 <BlakeGirardot> What are we getting their feedback on?
19:18:04 <RAytoun> @Russ I am happy to help out. Will email you.
19:18:16 <russdeffner> the Data role
19:18:19 <TomT5454> Mention of imports brings to mind that this topic should be covered
19:18:41 <TomT5454> I'll check if it is
19:18:55 <russdeffner> yep, in the Data role, of course Rafael is on my
'expert' list for help on that
19:19:34 <russdeffner> Thanks Ralph, let me know if there is something
particular you want to help with, or feel free to comment on docs,
etc or email any time
19:20:07 <TomT5454> I meant the LearnOSM equivalent, but maybe we're
talking the same thing
19:20:57 <TomT5454> We lost JayGee after I gave translation short
shrift -- hope there wasn't something he wanted covered
19:21:12 <russdeffner> yes, basically we'll identify whether or
not some content that needs generated will live on LearnOSM or is
too HOT specific and will only be presented on moodle
19:21:32 <TomT5454> Summing up outside of your actions, I guess our
focus in the next week is reviewing and working on Steve's Master List
19:22:31 <TomT5454> Anything else, folks?
19:23:03 <SteveBower> I'll try to get an HTML prototype of the master
list out by next weekend - more to show the categories than the page design
19:23:05 <BlakeGirardot> I have one thing
19:23:20 <TomT5454> GA Blake
19:23:35 <BlakeGirardot> I am still working on the submitted
Vespucci manual for adding it to LearnOSM
19:23:52 <BlakeGirardot> I hit kind of a stumbling block and have
to sort of re-think it.
19:24:36 <BlakeGirardot> We got it as an .odt document, but it
seems to be taken from already existing .md documents that are
part of the vespucci source
19:24:56 <BlakeGirardot> so I am not sure there is any utility
to adding it as is to LearnOsM
19:25:24 <SteveBower> What's the manual topic? Just curious.
19:25:53 <BlakeGirardot> It is basically the help documents for
Vespucci, an android osm editor.
19:26:11 <BlakeGirardot> so not really use related, just what each
menu item is and what it does.
19:26:12 <russdeffner> so basically it is part of the application
currently but we might want to add it to LearnOSM for 'offline' use?
19:26:43 <BlakeGirardot> I personally don't think it belongs in
LearnOSM at all if it exists elsewhere
19:26:52 <TomT5454> In my earlier view, it would get a module
of its own, paralllel to Id and JOSM
19:27:05 <russdeffner> yes, we'd definitely need to check license, etc.
19:27:16 <BlakeGirardot> Creating more of a usage guide would be good for LearnOSM
19:27:30 <russdeffner> anything put into LearnOSM is/will become
CC0 so we need 'original content'
19:27:33 <BlakeGirardot> but we don't need to duplicate a set of docs
that just need to be kept synchronized with the source
19:27:42 <BlakeGirardot> license is fine I think I checked it when I saw it.
19:28:13 <russdeffner> not even BY will work w/ LearnOSM, are you sure?
19:28:49 <BlakeGirardot> I am not 100% sure no, it was a few weeks
ago, but like I said, license aside, no point in duplicating docs that
are just going to go out of date.
19:29:15 <BlakeGirardot> But a usage guide would be better, but we don't
have that, it would need to be created.
19:29:20 <russdeffner> Yes, I think there are also so many mobile
apps, how to choose which ones we 'promote' which ones not
19:30:09 <russdeffner> I think we could have an 'open offer'
to any app developer that if they agree to CC0 we will add,
but they will need to maintain, etc...
19:30:11 <BlakeGirardot> I think we can promote the best of breed.
There is no other editor for android like Vespucci if you want to
do a lot of editing. it is kind of like field papers but with a tablet instead.
19:30:17 <TomT5454> I begin to see a module by operating system
19:30:49 <russdeffner> yes, I think GoMap! is the same for ios
19:31:01 <russdeffner> i.e. only 'full editor'
19:31:16 <BlakeGirardot> anyway, just wanted to say, ya, working
on it, i think nick is the only one who would know though. but
it brings up, the 2 other manuals submitted should be checked to
see if they are original work or not.
19:31:44 <russdeffner> but do 'we' i.e. the TWG want to build and
maintain training for an app developer?
19:31:59 <russdeffner> think they should be doing that
19:32:06 <BlakeGirardot> I would have if it didn't exist for something like vespucci
19:32:27 <BlakeGirardot> and we do something like that for all the
mobile mapping apps in learnosm now.
19:32:50 <RAytoun> If we offer to maintain a link to their web site users guide?
19:32:56 <BlakeGirardot> one could argue the app devs should do it,
but we want to make it easy for our audience to use, so we do it if it
doesn't exist, or do it tailored to our typical use cases.
19:33:02 <russdeffner> sure, sure, not completely opposed; just
saying 'where to draw line'
19:33:26 <BlakeGirardot> I think a use case based guide would be good
for vespucci so people we work with know how they can make use of it.
19:33:49 <BlakeGirardot> and when someone volunteered to submitt their
existing work, that was an easy choice
19:33:53 <TomT5454> I agree
19:34:51 <BlakeGirardot> Anyway, like I said, just wanted to update
on it. I have to follow back up with the person who submitted it and see
if they would like to do the use case based documents.
19:35:26 <TomT5454> OK, thanks
19:35:30 <BlakeGirardot> And maybe we can add a page of "other applications"
or something to learnOSM if we want to link to the main site for the
apps we like or think are useful on the ground for hot mapping.
19:35:39 <BlakeGirardot> but don't want to create a full blown guide on learnosm
19:36:20 <BlakeGirardot> thats it for me.
19:36:59 <TomT5454> I can't help thinking in hierarchies. Beginning to
think there will be operating-system-specific branches under a number of topics
19:37:31 <TomT5454> Maybe one can weave hyperlink threads through all
the topis related to as particular OS
19:38:09 <SteveBower> There
19:38:38 <russdeffner> hmm... yep probably something to think about
longer-term, i.e. how best to address OS differences, etc.
19:39:17 <SteveBower> There's an English Google Doc module on setting
up a virtual machine (on a PC, for Linux). I suggest we drop that
- too OpSys dependent, and too quickly out-of-date.
19:40:08 <TomT5454> Suzan's difficulties with her Mac illustrate
how essential it is to cover particulkar items of setup. Need that
sort of thing for Mapathons. Anyway, next meeting is Aug. 17.
Poll for time as usual?
19:40:42 <SteveBower> Russ, who's the site admin for moodle.dev.hotosm.org?
I registered but never got the confirmation email (and not in spam).
19:42:15 <russdeffner> I have site admin, but think all mail goes to Drazen
19:42:43 <russdeffner> but not sure it is set up to send at the moment
19:42:54 <russdeffner> for now you can just access as guest
19:43:01 <SteveBower> ok
19:43:07 <russdeffner> will look into it though
19:43:21 <TomT5454> Are we done?
19:44:11 <TomT5454> #endmeeting