Talk:Tag:landuse=hop garden

Should be a proposal

Hi Chrabros, sorry for interfering again, but that page should be a proposal, not a tag page - and definitely not on Map Features. This tag is nowhere near established. --Tordanik 12:05, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Ouch. :-( I hope you have the same approach to the other as well. ;-)

I was "cloning" landuse=vineyard. It seems to me that that tag was no proposed as well, it was just used.

The same is true for landuse=hop_garden. It is being used.

But anyway - do I have to go through the proposal process for adding the tag on Map Features?

Or for writing a documentation for it?

I am sure that I will need no permission to use it. And we will use it in our planned import from RUIAN. So I thought it would be better to have a documentation for it, before we use it as I believe it is a good practice. But maybe I am wrong. Perhaps it is better just to silently use it?

Regarding the tag being established - yes, it is rarely used, but on taginfo are some variants of hop yard and hop field as well, probably because there was no documentation how to tag it. But I hope that the Czech import will raise the numbers slightly.

Waiting for further instructions.

Kind regards, Chrabros (talk) 12:59, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Well, all these things are a bit fuzzy and there are no hard rules, really. So the following is just my take on how it usually works.

Things that are helpful for uncontested presence on Map Features and to a lesser degree for Tag pages is usage, applications and mind share among mappers. If a tag has been used globally a lot (preferably manually rather than just by imports, though, although it is sometimes hard to tell), is rendered on some popular map, and there is no similarly popular competition, then everyone will probably agree that it should be added to Map Features.

The opinions vary widely about how to get to that point. Some prefer a formal proposal with voting. others set up a proposal but never vote, and some tags even spontaneously emerge from people just tagging in a way that makes sense to them. From what I can reconstruct, the vineyard tag appears to have taken the approach of writing a proposal as temporary documentation of the tag, but never doing a real vote (although some stated their support). It got a real tag page two years later. Today, an obvious difference between vineyard and hop_garden is the 136000 vs 66 usage count.

If the tag was my idea, I'd probably set up a proposal, let people discuss it, and then either start a vote vote or just let things happen based on their reaction. That's just me, though, so take this with a grain of salt. However, I ask you to at least put the topic of tagging hop gardens/fields up for discussion on some international community platform (e.g the tagging mailing list) to make sure it works for everyone. It's always possible that someone spots a problem that you didn't notice yourself. Happens to me a lot, actually. --Tordanik 23:06, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Got it. Removed from Map Features, changed key status to proposed. Will prepare a proposal. Chrabros (talk) 09:53, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

Been there, done that. Proposed_features/Hop_garden. Tordanik, could you please have a look at it and tell me if it seems to be OK for you. Comments are welcome. Thanks. Chrabros (talk) 03:25, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

Looks good. The one thing that's missing imo is the comparison with landuse=farm or landuse=orchard + crop=hops. You already list a few possible alternatives, which is good, but I believe this one is the most important one: You should explain to the readers why you prefer a new tag over a combination of existing tags. Otherwise it's ready for a larger audience imo. --Tordanik 06:03, 5 March 2014 (UTC)