User talk:Aceman444

Uses of access=permit

In [1] you removed my warning against different and unknown uses of access=permit and ask "Are you aware of anything indicating that access=permit has serious use in a different meaning?" . I think I do. I see many people put this like motor_vehicle=permit tag on many forest roads, that are signposted "Only for motor vehicles of National forest authority" or "Only with permission from National forest authority". I really doubt the authority will grant permission to random tourists wanting to park their campervan on top of a hill. I tried to contact the mappers on how they meant it, but they never reply, they often seem to be ocassional drive-by changes from people with few changesets. So as the tag hasn't been approved yet, nobody knows how people use it and what it means for them. I just do not want people slap access=permit on any road with a sign having "permit" in its text, without understanding the implication. We do not need another access=permissive which is a really unfortunatelly chosen word that 50% people use wrongly thinking it means "needs permit" (and one that is not granted "regularly", thus basically it is "private"). I don't know if it is caused by bad translations in editors, or why that is. So let's not create the same situation here. Aceman444 (talk) 11:09, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

It is entirely possible that *=permit is now a skunked term and meaningless.

But note that vast majority of tags have no approved proposal and establishing meaning based on tag use is entirely normal and requires no warning.

Also, new accounts routinely are confused about tags.

So I would say the two are not a big problem. Especially lack of approved proposal is not a problem at all

Are established mappers also misusing it?

Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 06:05, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

"Establishing meaning based on tag use"... So when creating the access=permit page, how did you know how people use it? I agree with creating a page when one is the first user/proposer of a tag, or the usage of a tag is known. But in case the tag is already used for 2 years without known meaning, how can a page be reasonably created (without approval process)? It is a tag highjacking or just personal wishing how a tag should be used. Aceman444 (talk) 09:11, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

I have checked iD editor, and the popup description for the "permit" value in my language really only says "Access only with valid permission". No mention of the crucial information that "Permission is usually granted to anyone". This problem also exists in English language of iD. Thus, every iD user misuses the tag, except if he reads the full wiki page to the tag. Aceman444 (talk) 09:23, 12 July 2023 (UTC)