Humanitarian OSM Team/Working groups/Technical/meeting 2014-01-13

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Meeting to discuss Tech topics on Monday 13th January 2014

IRC log:

18:01:21< dodobas> good morning/evening
18:01:36< dodobas> anyone around for tech WG chat ?
18:01:40-!- Haaninjo__ [~anders@85.8.55.65] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:03:03< ybon> o/ working but around :)
18:03:11< ybon> (if Internet...)
18:03:16< dodobas> ybon: hippy gnu ear... :)
18:03:21< sev_hotosm> Hi for once I did not missed the schedule
18:03:40< dodobas> sev_hotosm: but everyone else did :/
18:04:03< ybon> dodobas: :) mappy 2014 to you :)
18:04:20< dodobas> we can still have a short chat... ybon do you have anything to report
18:04:47-!- Irssi: #hot: Total of 41 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 41 normal]
18:05:01-!- larryone [~larryone@193.120.235.122] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
18:05:11< dodobas> or sev_hotosm, maybe ? :)
18:05:37< ybon> humm, only thing is that I've finally fixed the grey problem of DEM in the style
18:06:00< dodobas> data or style issue ?
18:06:24< ybon> data processing :)
18:06:44< ybon> I would love to share the diff in github but Internet doesn't want me to
18:07:27< dodobas> Internet is a spoiled brat
18:08:01-!- pierzen [~kvirc@98.143.222.183] has joined #hot
18:08:19< dodobas> I have a short update... HOT web site seems to be working ok.. there is no apparent load on the server
18:08:36< dodobas> http://graphs.dev.hotosm.org/dashboard/#amelia
18:09:16< dodobas> other than some Drupal issues, but clara is working on those
18:09:39< dodobas> sorry phone...
18:09:48< dodobas> hi pierzen, do you have anything to report
18:10:09< pierzen> hi, no, just that url with accents were fixed by clara this morning
18:10:16< sev_hotosm> by something to report you mean issues?
18:10:55< sev_hotosm> no feedback from @pgiraud regarding the dev TM v2?
18:11:11< sev_hotosm> that is actually done?
18:11:54< dodobas> back... so clara says that some ols posts are not displaying images correctly
18:12:21< dodobas> she is working on that
18:13:06< dodobas> and she will spend some time on making site multilangual ... for starters adding French...
18:13:28< dodobas> but she will need some one to translate relevant parts of the site to French
18:13:43< dodobas> sev_hotosm: issues, concerns, ideas, ...
18:13:59< pierzen> french for now, but we have to think multilingual.
18:14:08< pierzen> Oh yes, an announce : my OsmContributorStatistic module is now available on github : https://github.com/pierzen/osm-contributor-stats. It provide historic statistic for bbox and dates.
18:14:37< dodobas> sev_hotosm: no feedback at the moment... there is a non working instance on amelia (server)
18:14:55< sev_hotosm> oh regarding the Tasking Manager I had a lot of suggestions
18:14:59< skorasaurus> the meeting now?
18:15:12< sev_hotosm> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Humanitarian_OSM_Team/Working_groups/Technical&oldid=932837
18:16:45< sev_hotosm> actually I would like the dev v2 back as I am testing its new functionalities
18:17:11< dodobas> I should probably scrap that instance and create a new one, but there are some depolyment issues and I'm not sure how to recreate the DB... no documentation
18:17:38< dodobas> anyway... there is little or no activity on TM2
18:17:58< dodobas> *development activity
18:18:12< sev_hotosm> and I would like to know if the tech group would help @pgiraud to finish the v2 (I do not talk about extra functionalities I listed in the wiki) so that it can be made official
18:18:12< dodobas> skorasaurus: yes... do you have anything to report
18:18:25< skorasaurus> not in particular.
18:18:42< skorasaurus> sev_hotosm: I am sorry that I have not contacted you again regarding your difficulties that you had.
18:19:06< dodobas> sev_hotosm: other than actually coding .. I'm not sure what you mean
18:19:10< skorasaurus> if you have time now, or 4 hours from now, it would be ideal for me to talk with you.
18:19:42< skorasaurus> I am hoping to tweak the hdm-josm style in the coming days or next couple weeks.
18:19:47< sev_hotosm> @skorasaurus about which difficulties?4
18:19:48< skorasaurus> don't forget that it exists ;)
18:20:02-!- clara [~clara@cpc16-nmal17-2-0-cust104.croy.cable.virginm.net] has joined #hot
18:20:13< skorasaurus> updating the HDM preset.
18:20:18< dodobas> AFAIK, there were no public discussions on what to do with TM2, will we try to migrate old jobs... or just start fresh
18:20:26< sev_hotosm> ah OK hdm-josm style
18:21:03< skorasaurus> (that message about it existing wasn't just to you, but everyone else as well)
18:21:05< dodobas> so sev_hotosm, no immediate plans...
18:21:05< sev_hotosm> @dodbas ah you are talking about tm2 created for Philippines, not v2?
18:21:30< dodobas> no... v2
18:21:38< skorasaurus> there's a few hanging issues for the HDM-JOSM and HDM-carto in eventually but none of them are critical.
18:22:32< dodobas> so....
18:22:40< skorasaurus> and also a few issues with tagging as well.
18:22:59< skorasaurus> although I admit that discussing the nuances of tagging is neither forte nor passion :)
18:23:29< dodobas> here is the current situation: tasks.hotosm.org is planned to be moved from Amazon to the amelia
18:24:24< dodobas> tasks2.hotosm.org was a temporary solution for Philippines... and its running on my Private Amazon instance... (free at the moment)
18:24:58< dodobas> not sure what to do with it... it's not critical at the moment
18:25:15< sev_hotosm> @pgiraud told me he is the only one to work on v2, and I think he would be happy to see other devs join him
18:25:43< dodobas> tasksv2.dev.hotosm.org ... WAS a running instance of V2 version on amelia
18:26:53< dodobas> if we are going to push for V2, then we need to create a clear specifications of what should be done
18:27:28< dodobas> then try to 'market' the product in local hacker groups and hack fests
18:28:10< dodobas> most of us are doing their best to support HOT activites
18:28:26< dodobas> sometimes there is just not enough time in the day...
18:29:03< sev_hotosm> @dodobas it does not harm to try to see if someone would be interested :)
18:30:11< dodobas> the fact that pgiraud is working alone is one of the issues, it's easy to be a single developer on a project, but it will require more time to prepare the project for community participation
18:31:06< pierzen> tm is developped in python?
18:31:12< dodobas> like... writing better documentation, preparing coding guidelines, deciding which are priority issues
18:31:24< clara> is there a list of issues fov v2? - That usually makes it easier to join in and to start of with one task
18:31:42< dodobas> pierzen: python, pyramid framework with geoalchemy ORM
18:32:01< dodobas> clara: https://github.com/pgiraud/osm-tasking-manager2/issues
18:32:11< sev_hotosm> sure, but the project is on github and use the tracking system
18:32:29< pierzen> documentation on such packaging of python?
18:32:58< dodobas> pierzen: packaging ?
18:33:12< pierzen> this framework on the web with the tools you describe.
18:33:25< pierzen> I know python, not the rest.
18:33:29< dodobas> a lot of docs...
18:33:51< dodobas> but again... we could create a 'how to get involved' document
18:34:00< pierzen> yes, but is it summarized somewhere. there is a lot of info to read on internet.
18:34:52< dodobas> this particular setup... probably not... you'll need to check invididual components
18:35:04< clara> Maybe add it to the "how to get involved" page on the hot.osm.org site as well and link to the relevant issue tracker
18:36:20< dodobas> clara: sure, but we should create some project specific documentation
18:36:46< dodobas> there are a lot of python programmers, some of them know Python Web frameworks
18:37:33< dodobas> I, for example , work with Django and Flask for the last 3 years... but I've never programmed anything in Pyramid
18:37:38< sev_hotosm> I would be really happy to help as I created HOT Capacities webpage
18:38:42< sev_hotosm> http://hot.openstreetmap.org/get-involved already has a section for developers, it would require more?
18:39:19< clara> do Python programmers have meetups? then it might be usefull to do a lighting talk at one of the regular meetings and see whether there is somebody who wants to get involved
18:40:17< dodobas> sev_hotosm: something that would be project specific... im not takling about writing a tutorial for developing TM2... just something like 'these are resources to get started'
18:40:47< dodobas> if you know python... learn about pyramid web framework
18:41:12< clara> dodobas: maybe add on the get-involved page, which language the individual parts are in, so that a python programmer could easily see that they are needed
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18:42:12< dodobas> clara: yes, that will clearly show which technologies are used for particular project
18:42:38< dodobas> which brings us to issue with the wiki page...
18:42:54< dodobas> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team/Working_groups/Technical
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18:43:08< dodobas> we should regulary update this page
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18:44:15< clara> lol - i had no idea that page existed :)
18:44:28< sev_hotosm> I have a quesiton about trakcing issues and enhancement system in github: would not it be interesting to hirarchize those taht would be more helpful, to motivate the potential developers. I do not see anything that would show that such feature would interest x people and not just 1
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18:44:59< dodobas> but again... it's hard to work with the community... especially when you have no 'tools' to pressure individuals...
18:45:17< dodobas> like... 'you will get fired, if you don't update that page' :)
18:45:43< dodobas> sev_hotosm: like a voting system ?
18:46:57< clara> no... then people do a crappy job just to keep their salary :) - better get rid of redundant work - and replace the table with todo items with links to github so that it's always uptodate that way
18:47:19< sev_hotosm> would be good to add a comment as well. Eg if such feature would be directly useful for various humanitarian orgs, it would be valuable to mention it
18:49:15< clara> it also needs to be clear which issues are serious feature requests - and what is just an idea that somebody had
18:49:19< dodobas> sev_hotosm: github issue system is not really designed for that... we could use GH pages... or wiki, or some other resource
18:49:24< sev_hotosm> it is not a matter of individual pressure! :) Only good wills
18:49:59< dodobas> and create some 'official' documents on what to do next...
18:50:11< dodobas> there are also tools like waffle... https://waffle.io/pgiraud/osm-tasking-manager2
18:50:35< dodobas> but those are useful only for developers
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18:52:09< dodobas> so... who will do it ? :)
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18:53:14< pierzen> I agree, a issue system cannot take care of all aspects about a community participation in software design development.
18:53:41< sev_hotosm> I mean we need to make potential involvements easier, better explain how people could participate and what will be the benefits
18:54:23< sev_hotosm> it is actually the same for the OSM contributors
18:54:45< dodobas> so I can agree that we can agree about agreeing that we need better 'how to participate' documents :)
18:55:20< sev_hotosm> this is why I am explaining through emails and wikipages for current activations
18:56:25< sev_hotosm> I think we all agree about this, so let us decide what to do concretely
18:56:45< dodobas> it's easy to be a successful individual, and fail as a community (of individuals) :)
18:58:14< sev_hotosm> so, as we do not have many people tonight, it may be good to create a thread about this topic to 1 set what is the enhancement platform to set 2 explaining and hierarchize the nedds 23 promote them on dev communities along with HOT global work for them to understand the benefits
18:58:54< sev_hotosm> 3 not 23
18:59:10< dodobas> well, we could try it like that...
18:59:11-!- Haaninjo [~anders@85.8.55.65] has joined #hot
18:59:28< dodobas> I will try to update the wiki page...
18:59:50< pierzen> Dakar french translation sprint of LearnOsm in november. Intermediate and advanced sections are now available. See http://learnosm.org/fr/. Restructuration of the english version was started but not announced on HOT I think. We were still faced with LearnOsm and Github issues for Translators : No progress made and no easy solution to upload images. Neither Github or Prose.io offer to upload images via the web.
19:00:09< dodobas> so we can 'copy' used technologies to the web page...
19:01:11< dodobas> pierzen: tnx, I did not know about english version reconstruction
19:01:19-!- skorasaurus [~skors@adsl-75-10-136-135.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #hot
19:02:31< sev_hotosm> prose.io is indeed a problematic topic and I will send an email about this
19:02:50< dodobas> sev_hotosm, pierzen ok, tnx
19:03:25< sev_hotosm> basically it seems it does not allow to make git merge
19:04:20< dodobas> hmm, did you consider using an external service for images...
19:05:02< dodobas> i.e. flickr... and then have a script which would sync images to the repository...
19:05:39< pierzen> LearnOsm is setup to read images from Github. We are not the designers of LearnOsm.
19:05:59< pierzen> sync? dont know
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19:07:29< dodobas> anyone wants to add anything else ?
19:08:12-!- larryone [~larryone@89.100.23.131] has joined #hot
19:08:16< pierzen> Just compiling stats for Haiti 2010 to compare with today. the first 10 days, 304 contributors, 600k edits.
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* pnorman waves 19:09
19:09:49< dodobas> pnorman: hi... the meeting is about to end, but if you have anything to add? :)
19:09:59< pnorman> nope
19:10:04< sev_hotosm> hmm there is also some pending improvements on the Exports service
19:10:12< pierzen> Haiyan : 1 ,200 contributors, 3 millions edits
19:10:17< pierzen> after 11 days
19:10:46< pnorman> what's an edit defined as?
19:11:22< sev_hotosm> SQL transformation so that we can propose to users thematic data to download, and not everything
19:11:55< pierzen> pnorman: edit : all objects either created, modified or deleted
19:12:18< dodobas> sev_hotosm: there are pull request for those issues ? or ?
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19:13:24< sev_hotosm> tag transform is actually a new functionality in Exports v2: http://export.hotosm.org/en/uploads/tagtransforms
19:13:34< sev_hotosm> but not as used as it could be
19:14:18< dodobas> sev_hotosm: is there any active development on exports ?
19:15:06< pierzen> sev_hotosm: POI Banjir Pluit 2  : The request Defines all POI's ?
19:16:31-!- awwright [~awright@199.47.73.122] has joined #hot
19:17:39< sev_hotosm> @dodobas I do not know, I would say nothing apart the Tag Transform SQL Files
19:17:50-!- nico_osm [~osm@ARennes-553-1-216-195.w2-10.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #hot
19:17:56< sev_hotosm> @pierzen I do not know
19:18:05< pierzen> cannot read
19:18:45< pierzen> we do not have access to scripts from others it seems
19:19:01-!- larryone [~larryone@89.100.23.131] has joined #hot
19:19:35< sev_hotosm> Ah yes there is also some issues with HOT exports, like https://github.com/hotosm/hot-exports/issues/58
19:19:55< sev_hotosm> It makes job creation complicated for newcomers
19:20:54-!- skorasaurus [~skors@adsl-75-10-136-135.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
19:23:27< dodobas> so guys and gals... we are going to wrap it up for the evening
19:23:41< clara> thanks
19:24:14< pierzen> thanks
19:24:27< sev_hotosm> thanks
19:24:29< dodobas> I'm going to create a short summary as usual ... and post the log to the wiki... probably tomorrow morning...
19:24:40< sev_hotosm> OK
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19:28:50< dodobas> thank you all for participating