Humanitarian OSM Team/Working groups/Technical/meeting 2015-02-09

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Tech WG Meeting Monday, Feb 09, 2015

People present (lines said)

  • Cristiano (69)
  • wonderchook (62)
  • dodobas (61)
  • BlakeGirardot (35)
  • pierzen (21)
  • pierregiraud (6)

Meeting summary

  • Sysadmin Report
Upgraded moodle and piwik to the latest versions and updated server due to the 'ghost' bug
Everything is running as usual
Openatrium still needs to be restarted from time to time
Discussed using piwik for stats on more of the hotosm websites
Mentioned www.hotosm.org and hot.openstreetmap.org were out of sync and commented on issue in github
An item for the piwik stats was opened on the hotosm-website project in github
ACTION: Check with board about moving stats to piwik
  • Althio's Agenda Items
Piwik on LearnOSM is taken care of on both the server and the LearnOSM side.
Long term TM2 planning was defered until pgiraud, mkl and althio, others could be present
ACTION: Blake to arrange a TM2 planning meeting
ACTION: Arrainge email group for TM2 need and priorities discussion - New Tech WG email list can serve for discussion.
  • OpenAerialMap
Design ideas for catalog ongoing
Defining first tech challenge requireemnts
First tech challenge is meant for hiring a lead developer to implement the OAM catalog
Most of the discussion is taking place here https://github.com/hotosm/OpenAerialMap/issues
Other, existing catalogs are being investigated
User requirement survey, finalized last week, going out this week
Google Summer of Code (GSoC) projects should be defined and mentors lined up
Cristiano will head up HOT's application and coordinate with OSM


Links mentioned in meeting


IRC Log

Feb 09 18:00:47 dodobas: good evening... good morning :)
Feb 09 18:00:57 dodobas: who is here for the TWG meeting
Feb 09 18:01:05 BlakeGirardot: Hi dodobas
Feb 09 18:01:20 dodobas: BlakeGirardot: is the bot running ?
Feb 09 18:01:26 Cristiano: Good morning... I'm here
Feb 09 18:01:40 BlakeGirardot: Not at the moment, but I'll take notes and do the log either way
Feb 09 18:01:57 dodobas: BlakeGirardot: ok, tnx ...
Feb 09 18:02:34 dodobas: so... 'official' agenda is https://hackpad.com/TWG-Meeting-02.2015-Tentative-Agenda-ykLmI78Lh2P
Feb 09 18:03:24 dodobas: you can add things as we move along... anyway... I'll start
Feb 09 18:04:11 dodobas: on the sysadminy stuff... I've upgraded moodle and piwik to the latest versions and updated server due to the 'ghost' bug ...
Feb 09 18:04:24 pierzen: hi
Feb 09 18:05:20 dodobas: other than that everything is running as usual... openatrium still needs to be restarted from time to time, as it consumes everything we got... but that not a big problem
Feb 09 18:05:51 Cristiano: Who's using OpenAtrium?
Feb 09 18:06:24 pierzen: Piwik: will stats be produced for hot.openstreetmap.org updates?
Feb 09 18:06:41 dodobas: I've pasted pgiraud report for OSM TM2 in the agenda... that shoold have been reported last time
Feb 09 18:06:50 dodobas: Cristiano: hot board
Feb 09 18:07:02 dodobas: pierzen: what hot.osm.org updates ?
Feb 09 18:07:14 pierzen: the HOt blog updates
Feb 09 18:07:51 pierzen: We have projects such as Ebola, Haiyan, etc.
Feb 09 18:07:55 dodobas: www uses Google Analytics as ar as i know... so not sure what you mean... http://piwik.hotosm.org
Feb 09 18:09:01 BlakeGirardot: I bumped into this the other day
Feb 09 18:09:05 dodobas: we could opt to use piwik... if we agree on that
Feb 09 18:09:19 dodobas: it would 'open' hot.www stats .. if that's a good thing
Feb 09 18:09:33 BlakeGirardot: http://hot.openstreetmap.org/ and http://www.hotosm.org/ are not content synced exactly, not sure if that applies to this issue of stats or not.
Feb 09 18:09:55 pierzen: dodobas: You mentionned piwik. But Google Analytics could also do the job I think. The important is the stats.
Feb 09 18:10:13 dodobas: BlakeGirardot: that was reported... let me find the issue
Feb 09 18:10:48 BlakeGirardot: I forgot to mention it when I discovered it, sorry about that.
Feb 09 18:11:19 dodobas: https://github.com/hotosm/hotosm-website/issues/6
Feb 09 18:11:24 BlakeGirardot: The issue we ran into with GA on learnosm was that the GA account was just a private account and it was difficult to share the stats with everyone.
Feb 09 18:12:15 dodobas: BlakeGirardot: exactly, piwik will open the data... but do we want that ?
Feb 09 18:12:16 Cristiano: I agree to make the stats public, hopefully that is not too much overhead to run piwik
Feb 09 18:12:28 dodobas: Cristiano: we don't know :)
Feb 09 18:12:58 dodobas: we can run both and see what happens
Feb 09 18:13:24 Cristiano: yes, let's do that and after a couple months we can report on how much effort and if it's worth
Feb 09 18:13:26 BlakeGirardot: Well, even if we used a simple http auth string to "close" them, at least it could be easily shared
Feb 09 18:14:00 Cristiano: we should probably check with the board about making the stats public, but I'm for transparency in general :)
Feb 09 18:14:28 Cristiano: it would be nice if we could make budget and spending public as well
Feb 09 18:15:18 dodobas: technically it's not a problem...
Feb 09 18:15:43 dodobas: we could even set stats as private, until there is a board decision, if required
Feb 09 18:16:07 Cristiano: OK, let's put a couple of actions 1. check with the board to publish hotosm.org on piwik and 2. start running piwik
Feb 09 18:16:07 BlakeGirardot: That is probably not a bad idea and just share them among the interested people in HOT
Feb 09 18:16:23 dodobas: can someone open an issue on https://github.com/hotosm/hotosm-website
Feb 09 18:16:27 BlakeGirardot: I have it.
Feb 09 18:16:41 dodobas: and we will coordinate
Feb 09 18:17:17 dodobas: so, moving along ...
Feb 09 18:17:35 Cristiano: TM2?
Feb 09 18:17:46 dodobas: user althio.. sent me a private mail with his agenda... https://hackpad.com/TWG-Meeting-02.2015-Tentative-Agenda-MZ1LLo9sP2u
Feb 09 18:18:30 dodobas: and said that he is not going to make it... I'm was not sure what to do, so his version was simply linked
Feb 09 18:19:03 wonderchook: the budget is public
Feb 09 18:19:03 BlakeGirardot: Piwik is covered
Feb 09 18:19:07 dodobas: Cristiano: the report for tasking manger 2 is in the agenda ?
Feb 09 18:19:11 wonderchook: (for those that weren't aware)
Feb 09 18:19:15 dodobas: is that what you are asking
Feb 09 18:19:25 BlakeGirardot: OAM is going to get covered
Feb 09 18:20:34 dodobas: ok ... so we kinda stated a dicussion about 'Long term Tasking Manager2 planning'
Feb 09 18:20:51 dodobas: that was postponed for this meeting
Feb 09 18:21:09 dodobas: is ti going to be postponed again, or ? :)
Feb 09 18:21:14 BlakeGirardot: I think so :)
Feb 09 18:21:16 Cristiano: wonderchook: Yes, I know it's public, I was just proposing ways to make it easier for us to publish it :-)
Feb 09 18:22:00 BlakeGirardot: If there is an activation WG meeting tomorrow I'll mention to them we wanted their general impressions of what they feel is needed or to review the issues list and add to it
Feb 09 18:22:29 Cristiano: OK, so if TM2 is skipped, then OAM next?
Feb 09 18:22:51 dodobas: BlakeGirardot: ok, next meeting ...
Feb 09 18:22:58 dodobas: Cristiano: sure, go on
Feb 09 18:23:22 pierzen: TM planning, we really need to establish priorities and see what we can do with Hewlet grant with this.
Feb 09 18:24:01 BlakeGirardot: pierzen: Yes, I have a proposal I want to submit for some funding for dedicated review, planning and development.
Feb 09 18:24:08 BlakeGirardot: for TM2
Feb 09 18:24:19 Cristiano: OK, should we have a separate discussion that includes althio and other devs about TM2?
Feb 09 18:24:51 BlakeGirardot: Yes, and mikel very much wants to participate as well
Feb 09 18:24:54 Cristiano: maybe coordinating with a Doodle to make sure we have everyone involved
Feb 09 18:25:05 dodobas: Cristiano: it was kind.... yes exactly .. but it never happend
Feb 09 18:25:48 Cristiano: OK, so that would the action item about TM2. Pierre or Blake, can you want to coordinate to get everyone together?
Feb 09 18:26:03 pierzen: To move on more organized and in the spirit of this volunteer organisation, There are discussions, but it is important to prepare propositions and have others react through email.
Feb 09 18:26:57 BlakeGirardot: I will coordinate a TM2 only meeting if that is good with everyone here
Feb 09 18:27:20 BlakeGirardot: Just roughly: Before the end of this month? or beginning of next month?
Feb 09 18:28:05 Cristiano: pierzen: I agree. Maybe we can initiate the discussion via email and continue over a meeting just to be able to make decisions
Feb 09 18:28:07 dodobas: BlakeGirardot: that probably depends on pgiraud and mkl
Feb 09 18:28:32 pierzen: We can establish a group and plan to have both email discussion and some "live irc discussions". Emails let's have more people to participate and identify points to examine later.
Feb 09 18:29:06 Cristiano: is there any schedule/deadline for Hewlett budget spending?
Feb 09 18:30:03 wonderchook: there is already a plan for the Hewlett budget spending
Feb 09 18:30:08 BlakeGirardot: pierzen: Ok, great, I can facilitate that as well. Is a google group, which has nice email and "forum" type interface going to work for you on that pierzen?
Feb 09 18:30:14 wonderchook: it was approved by the board and is in the process of being disseminated
Feb 09 18:30:22 wonderchook: things have just taken a bit longer than expected
Feb 09 18:30:45 pierzen: I thought we would have the possibility to participate to these decisions.
Feb 09 18:31:03 wonderchook: you did
Feb 09 18:31:09 wonderchook: when we asked for the feedback
Feb 09 18:31:13 pierzen: ??
Feb 09 18:31:22 BlakeGirardot: The google doc spreadsheet
Feb 09 18:32:11 pierzen: Yes, but from this, how we identifiy priorities, we go on. This is mainly a volonteer org and the grant comes from these efforts.
Feb 09 18:32:16 wonderchook: https://docs.google.com/a/hotosm.org/spreadsheets/d/1Vy9Im1jrw9Y1a97OWu29C_L_0BOEDNCPbLpLEVPHWgM/edit?usp=drive_web
Feb 09 18:32:45 wonderchook: it was approved by the board that the membership elected and from the feedback asked of the community
Feb 09 18:33:03 pierzen: Since I contributed a lot to getting this grant, I thought I would have more opportunities to participate to the plan.
Feb 09 18:33:39 wonderchook: everyone contributed to getting the grant and you have been invaluable as a coordinator. I'm not sure what you expected in the way of participation. We have spent a lot of effort on seeking input
Feb 09 18:34:36 pierzen: We have two distinct group 1. The volunteers 2. the corporation. We need to find ways to have the two particpate to the decisions.
Feb 09 18:35:25 pierzen: From Haiyan grant, TM development orientations were not discussed. Are we doing this again?
Feb 09 18:35:30 wonderchook: both participated in the decision, though legally the public charity is legally responsible for spending the money accordingly
Feb 09 18:35:49 wonderchook: there was not grant for Haiyan, so I am not sure what that means
Feb 09 18:35:59 wonderchook: anyway, this is not something for the tech working group meeting
Feb 09 18:36:04 pierzen: Do you mean the membership cannot participate to the orientations?
Feb 09 18:36:04 Cristiano: Sorry to interrupt --- but maybe we should continue this specific discussion over on the ML or within another WG?
Feb 09 18:36:15 wonderchook: I'll be happy discuss at another time
Feb 09 18:36:55 dodobas: Cristiano: please continue with the OAM
Feb 09 18:36:57 Cristiano: Yes, let's continue with the TWG agenda. In the meantime Blake and Pierre will coordinate to have a specific TM2 discussion
Feb 09 18:38:21 Cristiano: OK, so have started putting together design ideas for the OAM catalog. It's been productive and we're now defining the requirements for the first tech challenge
Feb 09 18:38:57 Cristiano: the first tech challenge is meant for hiring a lead developer to implement the OAM catalog
Feb 09 18:39:32 Cristiano: most of the discussion is in GitHub and the docs linked from there: https://github.com/hotosm/OpenAerialMap/issues
Feb 09 18:41:10 Cristiano: we need more input from people with technical experience, so if you haven't provided feedback yet, please do so or forward to anyone you may know that could contirbute
Feb 09 18:41:37 wonderchook: Cristiano I know that Jeff Johnson was looking and intended to contact you
Feb 09 18:42:26 Cristiano: he did, we just talked this morning. He and other geonoders are rooting for direct geonode integration, so that's def an option
Feb 09 18:42:37 wonderchook: well, I think we would integrate
Feb 09 18:42:46 wonderchook: with Geocode, but I don't think it should be built on Geonode
Feb 09 18:43:08 wonderchook: though I don't know how closely coupled the Geonode Catalog and the other parts are
Feb 09 18:43:20 dodobas: Geonode is an overkill, and it's tied into Geoserver ...
Feb 09 18:43:22 Cristiano: if we could make a slim version of Geonode and make it more portable....
Feb 09 18:43:37 wonderchook: honestly, I think that is an undertaking beyond this
Feb 09 18:43:42 dodobas: so you would use 5%of the system
Feb 09 18:43:44 wonderchook: meaning there is a lot going on in Geocode
Feb 09 18:43:53 Cristiano: well, one of the ideas was to join their effort to make Geonode agnostic from geoserver
Feb 09 18:44:25 wonderchook: what is their timeframe for that? i suspect it would take quite some time
Feb 09 18:44:28 Cristiano: right. Anyway, I'll talk to the geonode community and Jeff to discuss the idea
Feb 09 18:45:48 Cristiano: at this point we want to have a leading developer as soon as possible, so that we can start implementing ideas
Feb 09 18:45:51 pierzen: I would see products like Geonode more a front to publish data in various formats and make calls to various tools.
Feb 09 18:45:56 Cristiano: so, the purpose of the tech challenge
Feb 09 18:46:18 Cristiano: yes, the idea was more to get the catalog part for free
Feb 09 18:46:39 wonderchook: I was wondering if there were other catalogs that were "less geo" that would fit the bill
Feb 09 18:46:54 wonderchook: though I don't have that much experience with them. e.g. the data catalog the open knowledge foundation supports
Feb 09 18:47:11 wonderchook: though I'm inclined to think many will be either overkill or difficult to make distributed
Feb 09 18:47:30 Cristiano: yes, at the moment there are some very lightweight catalog implementations with pycsw and simple leaflet/JS gui
Feb 09 18:47:56 dodobas: OAM Catalog interface should be really simple ... show me where is al of the data by it's bbox
Feb 09 18:48:11 Cristiano: and that was my idea (suggested by Angelos) of where to start from
Feb 09 18:48:30 dodobas: on the backend it an support every 'standard' protocol and schema that's required
Feb 09 18:48:55 Cristiano: right... so let's see. I don't want to make this an OAM meeting, just wanted to give you an update :-)
Feb 09 18:48:57 wonderchook: yeah, the API is in some ways more important long term than the interface
Feb 09 18:48:58 dodobas: there is no need for anything else, IMHO
Feb 09 18:49:34 Cristiano: but yes, another thing that we still have to finish to discuss is whether we want to break up tech challenge work by backend/frontend
Feb 09 18:49:55 Cristiano: as I read this morning that someone was suggesting that
Feb 09 18:49:57 wonderchook: I'd be inclined to keep it together, a team could win a challenge
Feb 09 18:50:13 wonderchook: and I think breaking it up will potentially cause issues, unless people work together closely
Feb 09 18:51:18 Cristiano: yes that was my concern too, since it should be *relatively* simple impleentation it would be good to have a team/dev to do it all
Feb 09 18:51:37 dodobas: Cristiano: do you have a deadline for TechChallenge / spec ?
Feb 09 18:52:20 Cristiano: anyway, we'll continue that discussion over on the OAM list and github, then decide. I would like to publish it this week, but maybe it too tight....
Feb 09 18:53:57 Cristiano: the other update from OAM is about the user requirement survey, that was finalized last week. I'm sending out an initial email today.
Feb 09 18:54:50 Cristiano: then it would be good to spread it to all potential users and power users (providers) that we know of
Feb 09 18:55:20 Cristiano: it will provide us with feedback on how to build OAM and user base to expect
Feb 09 18:55:25 BlakeGirardot: Is it going out to the main hot email list?
Feb 09 18:55:52 Cristiano: I'll send it to OAM-talk, then we can forward it with a bit of introduction
Feb 09 18:57:03 BlakeGirardot: I know it really isn't interesting to the majority of the HOT email list, I just am worried there are people who might be interested who haven't gotten the message about the OAM list yet we might miss.
Feb 09 18:58:05 Cristiano: Yes, agree, I kind just wanted to build some content and ideas before calling people to join in :)
Feb 09 18:58:11 BlakeGirardot: Oh I see
Feb 09 18:58:26 dodobas: Cristiano: what about GSOC/Outreachy ?
Feb 09 18:58:26 Cristiano: so that we can tell what we are trying to do
Feb 09 18:59:02 wonderchook: dodobas: as another agenda topic?
Feb 09 18:59:18 Cristiano: yes, that's the last point for OAM and we talked about applying for those programs, so that we may have junior developers joining on some of the work
Feb 09 18:59:41 Cristiano: wonderchook: I have listed on the agenda under OAM
Feb 09 18:59:43 wonderchook: ah okay, I was thinking it was also probably a broader topic as well, since it could apply to any tech projects
Feb 09 19:00:35 Cristiano: it should, since it's the first time that HOT applies for GSoC right?
Feb 09 19:00:55 Cristiano: so, we should consider how we want to submit our org application
Feb 09 19:01:46 wonderchook: correct, HOT has not applied to GSoC before. Traditionally OSM did
Feb 09 19:01:52 Cristiano: what are the requirements and how much effort is involved just for the application
Feb 09 19:01:56 wonderchook: though my understanding is OSM will still this year go through OSGeo
Feb 09 19:02:04 wonderchook: the application isn't too bad, I've done it with one other person before
Feb 09 19:02:09 Cristiano: do you know who lead those efforts?
Feb 09 19:02:13 wonderchook: key is getting many different project ideas
Feb 09 19:02:17 wonderchook: lead which efforts?
Feb 09 19:02:22 wonderchook: HOT -> GSoC?
Feb 09 19:02:29 Cristiano: OSM -> GSoC
Feb 09 19:02:36 wonderchook: ah, not sure. I've done it before
Feb 09 19:02:41 wonderchook: as has Ian Dees
Feb 09 19:02:57 wonderchook: but the broader OSM community generally hasn't been super interested
Feb 09 19:03:13 wonderchook: hence why I think HOT is a better way to focus our energy
Feb 09 19:03:28 dodobas: wonderchook: (thumbs up)
Feb 09 19:03:50 dodobas: HOT has projects that need some developer lov
Feb 09 19:03:52 dodobas: *love
Feb 09 19:03:56 wonderchook: the most important thing we need to do as a group is have many good well thought out project ideas. As well as people signed up to be mentors
Feb 09 19:04:18 wonderchook: Mhairi began a list for Outreachy, but we also should do for GSoC
Feb 09 19:04:51 Cristiano: OK. Where should we coordinate? TWG is OK?
Feb 09 19:05:27 dodobas: I would be interested to help with GSOC
Feb 09 19:05:35 wonderchook: I think TWG would be good
Feb 09 19:05:49 Cristiano: I can lead with the application process
Feb 09 19:05:52 wonderchook: I would suggest having 2 people as org admins
Feb 09 19:05:56 wonderchook: and if you want to lead that is great :)
Feb 09 19:06:02 BlakeGirardot: wonderchook: Can you create a google group for us? TechWG?
Feb 09 19:06:28 Cristiano: We don't have one? :-|
Feb 09 19:06:36 wonderchook: please email accounts@hotosm.org and ask for me
Feb 09 19:06:38 BlakeGirardot: That will help with the TM2 planning as well. If we don't have oen, but I don't think we do.
Feb 09 19:06:43 BlakeGirardot: Will do wonderchook
Feb 09 19:06:47 wonderchook: or rather ask for one :)
Feb 09 19:06:49 wonderchook: not for me:)
Feb 09 19:07:22 BlakeGirardot: (have to run out, will be back to make notes and log, back in 20 mins)
Feb 09 19:07:28 wonderchook: here is the place holder for Outreach: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team/February_2015_Outreachy_Project_Ideas
Feb 09 19:07:35 wonderchook: I'm not sure what is best for GSoC/OUtreachy
Feb 09 19:07:41 Cristiano: and who's usually in the TWG btw?
Feb 09 19:07:45 wonderchook: only some projects are okay for both, there is a wider mandate for outreachy
Feb 09 19:08:44 pierregiraud: hi all
Feb 09 19:08:44 pierregiraud: is in the train with really bad internet connectivity Feb 09 19:09:08 dodobas: Cristiano: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team/Working_groups/Technical#People_Interested
Feb 09 19:08:44 pierregiraud: is in the train w/ really bad internet connectivity Feb 09 19:09:13 Cristiano: OK. Ideas for OAM could extend to other communities as well (e.g. an OAM plugin for QGIS), so I'm not sure if we want/can do joint applications for specific projects
Feb 09 19:09:46 wonderchook: well, I think we can put that in our project list and maybe post to the other communities and see what they think?
Feb 09 19:09:58 Cristiano: dodobas: cool we should subscribe those people automatically to the new list
Feb 09 19:10:01 wonderchook: I know that QGIS for example doesn't get many spots, so that example would be more important to us than them
Feb 09 19:11:50 Cristiano: OK, great. Anything else on the agenda?
Feb 09 19:12:11 dodobas: Cristiano: i think i can create the group, if wonderchook agrees, not sure who is behind accounts@hotosm ... or does it need to formally asked for :)
Feb 09 19:12:31 dodobas: pierregiraud: is late as usual... but that's ok...
Feb 09 19:12:32 wonderchook: basically the idea was to distribute the tasks
Feb 09 19:12:51 wonderchook: (by asking through accounts)
Feb 09 19:12:58 dodobas: wonderchook: fine by me :)
Feb 09 19:08:44 pierregiraud: is around Feb 09 19:13:14 Cristiano: yes please, and let me know when ready. I will send out a message to HOT-talk to let people know and ask to join if interested in helping
Feb 09 19:13:51 dodobas: is there something else that someone wants to report/raise... ?
Feb 09 19:14:26 dodobas: if not, next TWG meeting should be March, 9th ...
Feb 09 19:15:40 dodobas: ok, thank you for participating... we have a ot of work to do :)
Feb 09 19:15:52 dodobas: *lot
Feb 09 19:16:31 Cristiano: Thanks dodobas and everyone!
Feb 09 19:22:18 BlakeGirardot: Cheers eveyone.