Talk:Key:opening hours:kitchen

Misleading tag

The kitchen of a restaurant is hardly open for the customers, the tag should use service_times=* or a kitchen subtag of it.—Dieterdreist (talk) 13:51, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for your insight. Note that this wiki page was originally created to document this tag based on taginfo usage. We know of no previous proposal or other widespread discussion, but do correct this paragraph if there has been one. You are welcome to submit a proposal. Bkil (talk) 14:22, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

As of early 2020, seems the issue is only opening_hours:kitchen=* is mentioned in relevant features. I am now adding this alongside for the sake of awareness and comparison. I'm not putting it as a "possible synonym" yet. -- Kovposch (talk) 07:48, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

Perhaps you mean to use service_times:kitchen mentioned below? Just service_times=* would be ambigious: is it the time you can order food, or when table service is available, or when the bar or cafe is open? Please discuss this before adding it to lots of unrelated pages like amenity=restaurant --Jeisenbe (talk) 09:56, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

How are those pages "unrelated", and does a pointer to a relevant tag require "discussion"? Per "see also" and "possibly similar", I'm not describing that this tag should be used. I am not deciding whether service_times:kitchen=*, or some other key suffix should be used either. Rather, I'm referring readers to a related tag that they may be interested in. Would you consider this not useful? Will more people discuss this if they aren't aware of it? Frankly I was more surprised at opening_hours:kitchen=* being added to every possible page on its own in the first place. Since it is tag "in use" as aforementioned by User:Bkil, it would be prudent to point out other possible tags to let readers decide for themselves. So how about we at least link to this section before anything can be further discussed, let alone decided. -- Kovposch (talk) 11:47, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

Moreover, there's also at least the difference between ordering and the order actually going to be prepared. So I'm not going to suggest anything about that myself. -- Kovposch (talk) 11:58, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

Good point, I will go through and remove opening_hours:kitchen=* - too many feature pages have dozens of suggested combination tags, without a hint as to which ones are actually commonly used. But again, if you are going to propose [[Key:service_times:<subkey>|service_times:<subkey>]]=* please document that at Key:service_times:kitchen or Key:service_times:table_service or Key:service_times:food_service or whichever you choose to use, or make a proposal like Proposed_features/Key:service_times:kitchen. --Jeisenbe (talk) 14:06, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

Although do note that this is a subtag of opening_hours and not the other way around - this subtagging was probably intended to hint at the 'kitchen' aspect of opening_hours of a given venue. Most people I know seem to be familiar with this concept, but this may not be a norm in every country. service_times=* may be misunderstood as the time when waiters are available for order. When the kitchen closes earlier than a given venue, most places still serve drinks via waiters, though some may only operate the bars in this case. Should we add another tag to indicate when table service is offered? It matches exactly with opening_hours=* around here, but again this may not be the norm. Bkil (talk) 14:27, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

Right, the "kitchen subtag" part was intended as service_times:kitchen. I would not expect this to be interpreted as time when the waiters are available (service_times alone would be misleading, I agree). There is some ambiguity in all of these tags, as they literally say: time when the kitchen is operating (or open for visiting in case of opening_hours), while the interesting information for customers is: until when will I have the possibility to order a meal (that will have to be prepared by the kitchen)? This must be prior to the kitchen closing, because the meal will also have to be prepared. Therefore a better approach might be to tag lunch times and dinner times. --Dieterdreist (talk) 08:04, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

I'm not sure how you would like to express the following. Given a restaurant where they serve hot food all day long except in the last hour where they are cleaning up. At present, this would be: opening_hours=08:00-22:00 + opening_hours:kitchen=08:00-21:00. They only serve a'la cart from the menu, hence they can prepare any kind of food for either breakfast, lunch or dinner.

I think this would be excessive and provide little extra information to users: opening_hours=08:00-22:00 + breakfast=08:00-21:00 + lunch=08:00-21:00 + dinner=08:00-21:00. This is the norm in Hungary. Although there exist ones which prepare special breakfast=* or lunch=* specials, but both of them are subsets of opening_hours:kitchen=* (and hance opening_hours=*). --Bkil (talk) 18:16, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

I know at least one cafe/bar which serves lunch, but no "dinner", unless there are (warm) snacks served in the evening. Which means there's breakfast=a_la_carte, lunch=menu, dinner=sandwich;sausage;tarte_flambee, opening_hours:cuisine=08:00-23:00, cuisine=regional. On the other hand, in (northern) Italy the restaurants are nearly all closed between 14:00-19:00, means: not even a snack. Lunch and dinner are usual, but not breakfast.user:rtfm Rtfm (talk) 20:42, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

I don't fully understand your first sentence, but I think you may be misunderstanding the meaning of some of these keys, please reread their description: cuisine=*, lunch=*, breakfast=*, dinner=*, opening_hours=*, opening_hours:kitchen=*.

By default, we assume that a pub usually does not serve food, while cafes and restaurants do. If it does, we add food=yes and/or cuisine=* to specify what kind of food they serve.

If a pub or cafe does not have any special/discounted breakfast/lunch/dinner offering, we simply leave the respective tag out. By default, you must always order a la carte - it does not make sense in specifying that. I don't quite see what you want to represent with the invented opening_hours:cuisine=*, did you mean opening_hours:kitchen=*?

Could you please give a website or review to the pub so I can understand better? From your description, it sounds like the applied tags should be: lunch=menu, dinner=yes, dinner:cuisine=sandwich;sausage;tarte_flambee, opening_hours=08:00-23:00, cuisine=regional. As an alternative, you may also experiment with using conditional formatting on the food=* key, but I view that as a more complicated alternative.

If a restaurant is closed in the afternoon, simply use opening_hours=08:00-14:00,19:00-23:00 Also, please don't specify your reply as a "minor edit", because contributors may or may not be notified about your comment in that case. -Bkil (talk) 21:51, 8 December 2019 (UTC)