Talk:Proposed features/4WD Only

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Value

4wd=only/advised/no is better as there are roads where 4WD is advised but not necessary as well as roads where you would be completely stuck without a 4WD. --Skippern 12:54, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

While I sort of agree with the addition of "advised" to the set, I was really trying to get a very simple tag up for tracks that are either signed as 4WD only, or tracks where the terrain is obviously rough, but navigable in a 4WD.
Of course, the second point about leads us down the slippery "subjectivity" path, which is fine - it actually is possible to make a subjective decision that is suitable (just like we do every day when we make subjective decisions when creating ways). But if the track is actually marked "4WD Only" (or regional equivalent), then that at least is half the battle.
As to the "advised" option - personally, I quite like it, although I still think that only the 4WD_Only=yes tag would require rendering (as it is a practical access restriction). Gaffa 07:37, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

smoothness

Have a look here : key:smoothness many problems you will encounter are probably answered there and your are possibly trying to create a duplicate tag Sletuffe 13:35, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Whoops I haven't paid attention that you already gave a comment on the smoothness page Sletuffe 15:53, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

4wd problem

As said on the Talk:Proposed features/Smoothness 4wd has the problem of talking about 4 powered wheels but not of ability to go somewhere. Take the Lamborghini Murciélago for instance, it's a 4wd, but I doubt that's what you want to talk about Lamborghini Murcielago.JPG

I thought I'd had a reasonable got at defining what a 4WD was on the main page. And I somehow doubt the Lambo has high clearance and either lockable centre diffs or a low range gear box... so it's really all wheel drive -- gaffa 23:47, 29 November 2008 UTC
Your section "what is not a 4WD" now gives a better idea of what it is. I also understand that offroadvehicle is longer than 4WD, but it would be closer to what you mean in the end. That's just un idea I am writing, don't change it only for me ;-) Sletuffe 00:14, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
4WD is a well understood term for rural people who use these sorts of roads. The French are noted to use 4x4 with the same meaning (somewhere on the Smoothness discussion page). Mostly it is used for 4WD advisable because an experienced driver can drive the road slowly in an ordinary car. -- Drlizau 03:26 11 January 2009 (UTC)

scale for everything

Your idea (expressed on the smoothness page) is that it would be better to have scales for any wheeled vehicles (mountain bike, rollers, racing bike, car, off road vehicle,...) It's of course the more precise solution. ( this proposal is about off road vehicle if I read well ). But we are going to an end where mappers won't take time to map every scales, so losing information. smoothness has advantage of being "global" and the drawback of being "subjective" and approximative. But how could anyone take the time to tag :

  • 4wd=yes
  • passenger_car=hardly
  • sport_car=no
  • mtb=yes
  • wheel_chair=hardly
  • tank=yes
  • tractor=yes
  • trekking_bike=uncomfortable
  • foot=yes
  • racing_bike=no
  • high_clearance=yes
  • skateboard=no

???? Sletuffe 16:06, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

I don't think you would tag everything, but others might. I can't rollerblade, so I would never mark the road state with respect to roller blading, as I've no idea what's good or bad. That proposal on the smoothness tag was just a way of stopping to inane arguments about tagging a road for a bicycle and tank, when it's a predominantly car road. It all still comes down to tagging for the primary vehicle that the road carries/is designed for. gaffa 00:21, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Good idea!

As i live in Iceland I think this a valuable and great idea! Because here are a lot of roads you can drive on with a 4WD or jeep.

In Iceland there exist even special signs for this roads: http://vgwww.vegagerdin.is/sthbthjon.nsf/2d1e761d5db9cd840025702a00731850/4f712550323daa0900257241003846d7?OpenDocument

This means: normal roads are OK for every car (wow! i guess, you would not have expected that), but there are roads that are not allowed for cars without 4wd (Jeep and SUV) and there are roads you need a real jeep (even not intended to be used by SUVs) for (there are high obstacles or deep fords and rivers to cross).

I would vote for this!

--The blanz 21:48, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

After thinking some more over the tag, a scale should be more fitting, roads that have an "offroad" feel to it can have some sort of scale where offroad 4wd drivers can see how the road is compared to their skill level, while us other mortals can ignore these roads. I see the iclandic road council or whatever it is have made signs for that, so Iceland already have 3 levels for this scale. --Skippern 10:13, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Stock vs. Modified

Some tracks in the Western US (e.g. Moab, UT) are only suitable for non stock, in other words modified, 4WD vehicles. These are tracks are often off camber with 2+ foot rock steps, extreme inclines, deep loose sand or mud, and assorted other "features" that make them difficult to traverse with something other than specialized equipment. 4WD enthusiasts actually seek such trails out to test their equipment and their skill. Perhaps there could be an additional value 4WD_only=modified. Alternatively, or additionally, there could be a tag comparable to the sac_scale tag rating the necessary skill level of the driver. --Tekim 19:29, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

modified is too ambiguous, what is modified exactly, it'd be better to describe the features some how and tag them, you can already tag surface=mud/sand, perhaps a clearance tag for areas that need extra clearance etc... -- Delta foxtrot2 01:39, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
When no stock vehicles can use a track (well, maybe some Unimogs could), is it any longer a highway=track? Isn't that, say, leisure=offroad_track? Alv 07:34, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
It may still be a track, but only open some times weather permitting, eg in the northern parts of Australia some roads aren't accessible during the wet season, but even 2wd may be able to travel along them during the dry season. Liz posted an example of a sign where people can mess up roads after heavy rainfall. On the other hand there is roads specifically this kind of messed up all year round :) -- Delta foxtrot2 07:41, 15 February 2010 (UTC)