Talk:Tag:shop=health food
Don't delete this page
I've just spotted that this page has been labelled for deletion. This is the suggested tag for Holland & Barrett stores on the United Kingdom retail chains page (United_Kingdom_retail_chains#Health_Food) and it also covers many other chains of the health food shops, as well as smaller independent ones. There are no other shop=* tags that are suitable for Holland & Barrett and other health food shops.
I am happy to "rescue" it and add detail to the wiki page if someone wants me to. Also note that the tag is in use for 317 objects (taginfo). --Lakedistrict (talk) 17:19, 10 November 2017 (UTC)
- Feel free to describe how it is used/supposed to be used. I tagged it for deletion in https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag:shop%3Dhealth_food&diff=1521384&oldid=1340543 as it had no content beyond templates applying to any tag Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 14:22, 11 November 2017 (UTC)
- I've added a description based on the matching Wikipedia page and how the tag is used. Other page sections made to match similar shop=* wiki pages. Deletion label removed. I'll also have a go at a German version of the page , at some point. --Lakedistrict (talk) 14:51, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
"health food" is marketing language
I think shop=health_food is not a useful tag and I would like to discourage its use.
1. A "health food" shop seems to be a convenience store with a particular product range as listed in this Wiki page as useful combinations. If those tags are not automatically implied but need to be separately applied, shop=health_food seems useless to me in the first place since I cannot see any advantage or even difference over using shop=convenience with the same additional tags. Am I missing anything?
2. The other aspect I would like to critize is the word "health(y)". Healthy is a rating. I don't recall other tags that are rating retail products. We don't have a tag shop=environmentally_friendly_car, for example, for electric vehicles. If we did have a special tag for electric cars, it would probably be something like shop=electric_car, if shop=car + electric_cars=only wouldn't do it. I think ratings like these in general not very desirable in OSM. In the conext of food and car retail, they are just marketing terms to me that shall suggest buyers that a product is good, even better than something else.
The question arises: What or who qualifies a convenience store to be tagged as a shop=health_food? Is it the way the operators market their store? Is it the mapper?
Whether and what food is considered healthy and what is not, is very subjective and depends on personal beliefs and personal standards. I believe neither a commercial business' marketing department nor a mapper's opinions on the products sold in a particular shop should be echoed in the classification and ratings of food stores, or any other stores for that matter.
I suggest shop=convenience with the appropriate addtional objective and veryfiable tags and to discourage shop=health_food on this Wiki page.
---Freetz (talk) 19:44, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
- There are 2.6k shop=food, more than half of the 4.6k shop=health_food. Some self-advertised claims is still informative. What's needed first is the correct tag to contain them to avoid pollution. If food=health will conflict, it could be eg theme=health to emphasize its appearance. Additionally for Holland & Barrett, it could have strapline=health foods & natural remedies.
- .
- --- Kovposch (talk) 09:46, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
- I have yet to understand how to use shop=food. Even its Wiki page says it is unclear how this is different from other related shops. (As long as that tag is not well defined, I think it should be discouraged, too :)
- There is no such thing as "health food". The Wikipedia page for "health food" listed in this Wiki page is redirected to healthy diet. No food is healthy or unhealthy by itself. It is always a matter of consumption, i.e. the habits and diet of an individual (also with diets it's debatably what exactly is "healthy" and what not). Stores can't and don't sell habits. Food that's sold at "health food stores" can be as unhealthy as food at any other store can be healthy. The terminlogy health food is just framing. I believe OSM should not pick this up but be neutral.
- It also seems this tag was introduced for one specific chain in the U.K., and one similar chain is listed on the German Wiki page. I suggest using shop=convenience + brand=* instead.
- Self-advertising should be put in a special tag that is explicitely reserved for this purpose (such as strapline=*), IMO, but not be mixed with normal OSM data. We don't accept advertizing in description=*, but we have a dedicated tag for shops with specific marketing strategies? Those shops sell food (and maybe some other items), which makes them any of shop=convenience, shop=supermarket, shop=grocery, or shop=deli to me.
- ---Freetz (talk) 14:18, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
- It is not clear what separates a German Reformhaus from Alnatura organic markets in Germany (or Whole Foods in the US). They sell pretty much the same goods (food, as well as some cosmetics, personal hygiene products and cleaning supplies. Reformhaus usally sell no produce), the major difference is the size of the shops. Most Alnatura markets are roomy and are accessible with shopping carts whereas Reforhaus stores tend to be a lot smaller. Alnatura markets are commonly tagged as shop=supermarket+organic=only, rightfuly so, in my view, and not as shop=health_food. Since a Reformhaus shop is smaller and usually offers a less complete product range for everyday shopping, shop=convenience fits them well, IMO, perhaps with organic=only etc where it applies.
- ---Freetz (talk) 10:03, 3 October 2022 (UTC)