Humanitarian OSM Team/Chat Feb 25 2012

[11:02pm]

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[11:10pm]

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[11:10pm] <pgiraud>

Hi all

[11:12pm] <pgiraud>

Is anything happening here? Or is chat with mobile phone not working at all ?

[11:13pm] <jgc>

Hi pgiraud . Your chat seems to be working perfectly.

[11:13pm] <cgblow>

yes we haven't started yet, shall we?

[11:14pm] <cgblow>

are we waiting for kate to have tea?

[11:14pm] <cgblow>

I assume she has to be up an awful hour again

[11:14pm] <cgblow>

)

[11:17pm] <cgblow>

I have a random question — Is anyone actually using the HOT Humanitarian Data Model (HDM)?

[11:18pm] <pgiraud>

I think I don't know what this is

[11:18pm]

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[11:18pm] <cgblow>

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Tags/Humanitarian_Data_Model

[11:18pm] <wonderchook>

sorry folks, I got stuck on the subway

[11:18pm] <cgblow>

hi kate

[11:19pm] <wonderchook>

hi chris!

[11:19pm] <pgiraud>

Are you in the us currently ?

[11:19pm] <wonderchook>

I am

[11:19pm] <cgblow>

we figured it was 4am for you

[11:21pm] <pgiraud>

cgblow: I don't map a lot for hot actually.

[11:21pm] <pgiraud>

I mainly develop code. ;)

[11:21pm] <wonderchook>

cgblow: are we talking about the data model?

[11:21pm] <wonderchook>

it isn't really in use

[11:22pm] <wonderchook>

way too complicated

[11:22pm] <cgblow>

Kate I was just asking if anyone used it

[11:22pm] <cgblow>

yeah I noticed!

[11:23pm] <cgblow>

I was trying to do some tag development for our indonesia maps, tried to use the HDM for reference and was really surprised at how little help it was

[11:23pm] <cgblow>

have been meaning to come back to talk about this issue because it would be very helpful to have some kind of active model of our data

[11:23pm] <oddboy>

I've used the HDM for planning and conversational purposes, but not for code or implementation

[11:24pm] <wonderchook>

we have definitely never used the HDM tags in Indonesia

[11:24pm] <cgblow>

seems that the HDM may be appropriate for some tools or types of coordinated relief surveys but is not relevant to ad hoc disaster prep

[11:24pm] <wonderchook>

honestly, I don't think squeezing UN data models into OSM makes sense

[11:24pm] <wonderchook>

that should happen on the extract

[11:24pm] <cgblow>

I agree

[11:25pm] <cgblow>

I have started to do some research with tag info and tagstat — what are the tags that we actually use

[11:25pm] <wonderchook>

yeah, tags should be the regular OSM tags unless we need to invent one

[11:26pm] <cgblow>

would be great to have a dynamic HDM that reflects actual use

[11:27pm] <cgblow>

I wish I could get http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org running locally

[11:27pm] <cgblow>

I would try to hack something out

[11:28pm] <wonderchook>

yeah, I've never tried to run it locally

[11:28pm] <wonderchook>

I think for responses we should just define the tags we are going to use

[11:28pm] <wonderchook>

it would be good to have presets with tasks

[11:28pm] <pgiraud>

By locally you mean for a specific area ?

[11:30pm] <cgblow>

no sorry I mean getting the rails app on my laptop

[11:31pm] <cgblow>

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Tags/Humanitarian_Data_Background

[11:31pm] <cgblow>

^ related

[11:32pm] <cgblow>

is there any structured way to keep a list of tags that we want to use?

[11:32pm] <cgblow>

JOSM presets seems like a hack, I see people doing that though

[11:32pm] <cgblow>

If I want to talk about this do I just have to use a wiki page?

[11:33pm] <cgblow>

I started auto generating wiki pages based on a simple markdown list …

[11:34pm] <cgblow>

but the wiki won

[11:34pm] <cgblow>

won't let me upload images in batch …

[11:34pm] <pgiraud>

Lol

[11:34pm] <wonderchook>

well dane at one point made a thing that would convert JOSM presets into something else

[11:34pm] <cgblow>

so I decided it was better to just create a simple site on heroku or something to list tags with icons

[11:34pm] <wonderchook>

what if we came up with a format that could convert to the types of presets and the osm2pgsql

[11:35pm] <cgblow>

yes I actually did a JOSM preset converter too

[11:35pm] <cgblow>

that would be great

[11:36pm] <cgblow>

plaintext list of tags that can be easily version controlled and forked — but then can be used for JOSM etc

[11:36pm] <wonderchook>

yeah, because in St Marc they are using a crazy google doc spreadsheet thing right now

[11:38pm] <wonderchook>

cgblow: thoughts on getting the less geeky to use git

[11:38pm] <wonderchook>

do we just tell them to edit on the webpage?

[11:38pm] <cgblow>

gist?

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[11:39pm] <cgblow>

something that has some kind of visual version control would be ideal, and the ability to merge and annotate tags …

[11:39pm] <cgblow>

• dreams

[11:40pm] <wonderchook>

ha

[11:40pm] <cgblow>

For example here's my markdown file that I've been using: https://raw.github.com/unthinkingly/hot-symbols/master/symbols.markdown

[11:40pm] <wonderchook>

yeah, that looks doable

[11:40pm] <wonderchook>

btw, DevSeed is making some maps with the icons

[11:40pm] <cgblow>

oh there is an edit link on this one: https://github.com/unthinkingly/hot-symbols/blob/master/symbols.markdown

[11:40pm] <cgblow>

great

[11:41pm] <cgblow>

Crap my site with the icons crashed

[11:41pm] <cgblow>

1sec let me reboot it so I can explain it

[11:41pm] <cgblow>

BTW do we have an agenda today? I just started talking free-form, didn't mean to skip anything

[11:42pm] <wonderchook>

yeah you can edit directly on github

[11:42pm] <wonderchook>

cgblow: these things don't have agendas

[11:42pm] <wonderchook>

not sure if they should

[11:42pm] <cgblow>

How's the tasking server? Latest updates looking good ..

[11:43pm] <pgiraud>

You can edit as soon as you have a github account

[11:44pm] <pgiraud>

Still some things to fix on the admin (job creation) part

[11:44pm] <pgiraud>

It was a good idea to have this dev instance

[11:45pm] <wonderchook>

yeah, totally

[11:46pm] <pgiraud>

Sooner than later I would like to have a try at a "draw the area you want to work on yourself"

[11:46pm]

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[11:47pm] <pgiraud>

A new feature to allow people draw the task area themselves

[11:47pm] <wonderchook>

interesting

[11:47pm] <wonderchook>

how would the workflow for that be?

[11:47pm] <wonderchook>

would they draw squares?

[11:47pm] <wonderchook>

or pick a couple squares?

[11:47pm] <wonderchook>

or free hand?

[11:47pm] <pgiraud>

Nope polygons

[11:48pm] <pgiraud>

The server would ensure that they don't intersect other tasks

[11:48pm] <pgiraud>

Using snapping client side and cropping server side this would be easy

[11:49pm] <pgiraud>

I already had a try and it seems to work

[11:49pm] <cgblow>

neat!

[11:49pm] <cgblow>

we were brainstorming on twitter for a nanosecond — what if there were even simpler custom tasks

[11:49pm] <cgblow>

e.g., kate suggested "are there signs of life in this square?"

[11:49pm] <pgiraud>

Custom tasks ?

[11:49pm] <cgblow>

or "is this square flooded?"

[11:49pm] <wonderchook>

hey guys, I'm sorry I have to run

[11:49pm] <cgblow>

I'm interested in things that are binary … HOT or not??

[11:49pm] <wonderchook>

but it is my last 48 hours home

[11:50pm] <wonderchook>

and yes I like HOT or not

[11:50pm] <wonderchook>

or selecting areas

[11:50pm] <wonderchook>

=)

[11:50pm] <cgblow>

ok talk to you later kate

[11:50pm] <cgblow>

enjoy it

[11:50pm]

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[11:50pm] <pgiraud>

cgblow: Can you elaborate ?

[11:51pm]

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[11:51pm] <cgblow>

Sure — Currently the task is a bit daunting for true newbies

[11:51pm] <cgblow>

so the thought is: how could we simplify it

[11:51pm] <cgblow>

so people could start making OSM edits without even opening potlatch or JOSM (albeit indirectly editing)

[11:51pm] <cgblow>

this would basically be tagging squares as yes or no according to some question

[11:52pm] <cgblow>

there was a RHOK project called task me up that was similar to this concept

[11:52pm] <cgblow>

http://taskmeup.org/challenge

[11:52pm] <pgiraud>

Oh I see

[11:53pm] <cgblow>

well, taskmeup is actually complex by comparison because it allows pretty elaborate tasks — I'm just thinking of something that is a YES or NO according to some human evaluation of the map data

[11:53pm] <pgiraud>

So instead of marking a task as done, they would have to answer a question and check a checkbox or not

[11:53pm] <cgblow>

for use primarily after a disaster when really recent imagery is released

[11:53pm] <cgblow>

yes

[11:53pm] <cgblow>

and there would be no tracing or anything in this mode

[11:54pm] <cgblow>

but it would be basically adding a tag … not sure how OSM would actually consume this data …

[11:54pm] <cgblow>

PS I'm an interaction designer not really a OSM hacker

[11:55pm] <pgiraud>

I try to be an interaction designer too. And I d love to talk about this.

[11:55pm] <cgblow>

where are you based?

[11:55pm] <pgiraud>

In France.

[11:56pm] <cgblow>

I'm in the bay area … perhaps we will cross paths one day

[11:56pm] <cgblow>

the san francisco bay i mean

[11:56pm] <pgiraud>

My English sometimes doesn't help creating easy to use interfaces

[11:56pm] <pgiraud>

I hope so

[11:57pm] <pgiraud>

I'll have a look at taskmeup. It looks like they use terms I should use for the tasking server.

[11:58pm] <cgblow>

well, I look forward to hearing more about your updates, great work so far, I was not very active on it last year but am very interested in tasking

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[11:58pm] <cgblow>

I have done a lot of tasking server designs over the last few years actually

[11:58pm] <cgblow>

I should try to get it running on my machine, it's a rails app right?

[11:59pm] <pgiraud>

If you have comments about the interaction design. Please don't hesitate to tell me.

[11:59pm] <pgiraud>

Nope python.

[11:59pm] <cgblow>

OK will do

[11:59pm] <cgblow>

ah sorry I will not even try then, I'm not up to speed on pythonery

[11:59pm] <cgblow>

perhaps one day it will be a good learning experience

[12:00am] <pgiraud>

Actually I m more a JavaScript dev than python

[12:01am] <cgblow>

yes I saw the asynchronous work you are doing, nice stuff

[12:01am] <pgiraud>

You said you spent time to design tasking servers

[12:02am] <pgiraud>

Is there something that can be seen somewhere ?

[12:02am] <cgblow>

yes sure I can dig some stuff up

[12:03am] <cgblow>

I worked on the SwiftRiver a couple years ago (though it was eventually taken over by Ushahidi and has had some issues)

[12:03am] <cgblow>

I was also trying to do some work with that taskmeup project

[12:03am] <cgblow>

but I don't have tasking designs in production yet …

[12:04am] <cgblow>

but there is some stuff on flickr

[12:04am] <cgblow>

Some of the swift UI stuff: http://www.flickr.com/photos/unthinkingly/sets/72157627387006073/

[12:05am] <cgblow>

(some of which I did not design, just screenshots of the team's work since my involvement)

[12:05am] <cgblow>

Also some wireframes here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/unthinkingly/sets/72157624306246788/

[12:05am] <cgblow>

Oh and here are some ideas relevant to an "living data model" from ushahidi: http://www.flickr.com/photos/unthinkingly/sets/72157623116078233/

[12:06am] <pgiraud>

Too difficult to watch on a smartphone

[12:06am] <cgblow>

oh sure

[12:06am] <cgblow>

well anyway definitely would like to talk to you about it more later.

[12:06am] <cgblow>

have to run now

[12:06am] <pgiraud>

I hope we can have irc logs so that I can see it later

[12:07am] <pgiraud>

Ok I ll go to, sleep