Humanitarian OSM Team/Chat Jan 26 2012

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TODO. formatting

IRC logs

harry-wood		T minus 1 minute			22:59
harry-wood		OK CHAT!			23:00
burns left the room (quit: Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)).			23:01
harry-wood		ant burns dodobas flavour FredB iknowJoseph jgc larryGone maning Pierzen pnorman skorasaurus wonderchook zvenzzon_  Hello			23:01
d95marty [] entered the room.			23:01
FredB		Hi all			23:01
burns [] entered the room.			23:01
PierZen		zzz...			23:01
harry-wood		Hi FredB			23:01
maning		good morning.			23:02
flavour		Pong			23:02
harry-wood		It's time for a HOT chat			23:02
harry-wood		what can we discuss today?			23:02
d95marty		...or rather good evening. At least in Sweden. :-)			23:02
jgc		hi. just happening to see this. was going to go to sleep. might not remain for long...			23:02
harry-wood		wonderchook as usual is a blizzard of activity			23:02
harry-wood		but not sure which timezone she's in			23:03
harry-wood		maybe she's asleep			23:03
harry-wood		What does everyone think of the new website			23:03
harry-wood		?			23:03
PierZen		she has a robot connecting to Hot			23:03
wonderchook is now known as Guest509			23:03
wonderchook [~wondercho@] entered the room.			23:03
wonderchook left the room.			23:03
wonderchook [~wondercho@] entered the room.			23:03
harry-wood  <—  pretty awesome I would say			23:03
wonderchook		yes thanks to Mike for finishing it=)			23:04
Guest509 left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 480 seconds).			23:04
IknowJoseph		me too =)			23:04
d95marty		Great pic on the startpage!			23:04
PierZen		I love this picture in Indonesia.			23:04
harry-wood		Thanks to maning for a recent blog post:			23:04
maning		thanks to hotties for the help in mapping			23:05
wonderchook		yeah, Jeff Haack took the pic during our "Dompu vs. BIma" mapping face off			23:05
harry-wood		maning: Any particular mapping priorities in the philippines now?			23:06
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maning		no specific request from the flood affected areas, but I will start mapping the inundated areas for some research on geohazards.			23:07
CGI122 [] entered the room.			23:07
harry-wood		What's happening with you wonderchook?			23:08
wonderchook		at this precise moment he power it out			23:09
wonderchook		I'm in Dompu following up with some guys today			23:09
FischersFritz [] entered the room.			23:09
wonderchook		finalizing the private datastore that links to OSM data			23:09
wonderchook		so that people can do poverty mapping with it			23:09
IknowJoseph		And Nicolas is in Haiti at the moment?			23:10
harry-wood		he is yes			23:10
wonderchook		correct			23:10
wonderchook		for another week and a half			23:10
wonderchook		there was a update about it on the website			23:10
IknowJoseph		how's the psoition filling going over there?			23:11
IknowJoseph		ok, I'll check that out			23:11
Severin [] entered the room.			23:12
wonderchook		the position for the Haitians to map?			23:13
wonderchook		there is a post about that will go up today			23:13
wonderchook		or tomorrow I guess for you guys in those other timezones			23:13
wonderchook		well, except maning, today for him too;)			23:13
harry-wood		There the internship position too:  …any candidates for that so far?			23:13
IknowJoseph		was thinking of the internship - wondered if there'd been much response			23:14
harry-wood		quite a lot of "eligibility criteria"!			23:14
Severin		I think 2 people at least expressed their interest			23:14
wonderchook		3 people have applied			23:14
wonderchook		all of them would be qualified			23:14
harry-wood		awesome			23:15
wonderchook		harry-wood: yes there is, but we knew we'd get some people even with that			23:15
wonderchook		plus also those things are really "nice to haves"			23:16
harry-wood		yeah that's great. So we have a choice to make			23:16
wonderchook		yeah, also I'd like to introduce severin who is joining us for this HOT chat			23:16
wonderchook		his will be taking over for Nicolas for the month of Feb in Haiti			23:16
PierZen		bonjour Severin			23:16
wonderchook		he's worked on missions down there before, but been quiet=)			23:16
Severin		till March 12th			23:17
IknowJoseph		hi Sevrin			23:17
Severin		Yeah, I must admit I am somehow to shy or not very communicative			23:17
wonderchook		I'm currently on a mission to beat everyone into blogging;)			23:17
harry-wood		needs to blog some (late) thoughts on MapAction			23:18
Severin		I will post in february			23:18
harry-wood		I was just looking at the tasking manager.			23:19
harry-wood		seems like the Pedang building mapping is the job most ripe for people to contribute to			23:19
wonderchook		yes			23:19
harry-wood		this one:			23:19
wonderchook		we really need to finish it			23:19
wonderchook		the government is doing an exercise there			23:19
wonderchook		and it will really help show the utility of OSM			23:20
wonderchook		and what it can do			23:20
harry-wood		Anyone any good at making screencasts?  I think we could do with a screencast			23:20
harry-wood		to help get more people joining in			23:20
Severin		I currently have a ongoing tile on Padang and yes it is a long job for the areas downtown			23:21
harry-wood		Does the 'currently worked on' status still time out after an hour?			23:21
Severin		I think the imagaery accuracy has benn improved from the beginning so that building on some areas has to offset			23:22
Severin		have to be offset sorry			23:22
harry-wood		quite possibly.  Think there was a shift with one of the updates to the imagery			23:23
wonderchook		I learned how to process imagery is what happened			23:23
wonderchook		=)			23:23
wonderchook		harry-wood I think i times out after 2 hours			23:23
wonderchook		I'm not sure			23:23
Severin		the thing is also the contibutros are few but the supervisors still more			23:24
harry-wood		Mappers tend to worry too much about imagery offset actually.			23:24
harry-wood		I mean it's annoying if somebody moves your stuff that you've placed correctly,  but for new mapping of an area...			23:24
harry-wood		…you can just relax and whack in some data.  Hope that someone will straighten it later			23:25
wonderchook		yeah, I think it is fine for people not to worry too, too much			23:25
Severin		time out is an issue for Padang cause it takes hours for a tile so that most of people would like to do it in several times, I guess. Even it is timed out, it there an possibility to add a proposition for adding a bookmark ?			23:26
Severin		If I remeber well, I had to go abck from the selection webpage			23:26
PierZen		a button to ask for more time?			23:26
wonderchook		yeah those have all been talked about			23:27
Severin		I would sqy jsut to go back to the webpage to enter the same tile			23:27
Severin		cause i think it is not the case now			23:28
harry-wood		yes. that is effectively requesting more time			23:28
wonderchook		there is a wiki page for requests			23:28
wonderchook			23:28
Severin		if it is timed out you have to do all the process again			23:28
Severin		OK great			23:28
PierZen		The server should ask before timeout if the mapper wants more time.			23:28
PierZen		Feasible?			23:29
maning		I see a lot of tiles that has buildings mapped already but were never marked as "Done"			23:29
PierZen		You can work without passing through the server. Or you could stop before finishing.			23:30
Severin		are they complete ?			23:30
maning		we should at least marked them as "done"			23:30
Severin		do you consider adding an ongoing category ?			23:30
maning		"Complete" is relative :)			23:30
wonderchook		well, are they done maning?			23:30
harry-wood		yes. I think maybe there should be a way of marking as "done" without claiming that you did it			23:30
wonderchook		I mean I think there are some that aren't completely done			23:30
wonderchook		I don't think we should worry too much about the claiming you did it thing			23:31
wonderchook		I think it is okay			23:31
wonderchook		unless we start giving out points			23:31
wonderchook		tradable for HOT merchandise;)			23:31
harry-wood		hehe			23:31
PierZen		HOT Air MIles!			23:31
Severin		your link points out this one: Is it the good place ?			23:32
wonderchook		oops			23:32
wonderchook		yeah, I forgot it moved from the wiki to tracking			23:32
Severin		 			23:35
harry-wood		wish I had some time to poke around and help with the coding			23:35
d95marty		G'nite all! I've mostly been listening in, since you've covered what I've been interested in anyway. Doing tasks, that is. But it's way past bedtime here now, so I better get going...			23:37
harry-wood		good night			23:37
harry-wood		I think perhaps we can draw this chat to a close soon			23:37
Severin		good night			23:37
harry-wood		any other points on the un-agenda			23:38
harry-wood		?			23:38
d95marty left the room.			23:38
PierZen		Libya Health Registry, the Interactive Map is multilingual. See			23:38
wonderchook		I think I'd bring up there are working groups started			23:38
nfgusedautoparts [] entered the room.			23:38
harry-wood		ooh			23:38
IknowJoseph		just had a quick question about Frederic an DRC			23:38
harry-wood		that's three other points!			23:38
Severin		I can add more if you want			23:39
wonderchook		well, these things are sorta informal			23:39
wonderchook		so basically Severin it is if you want to add things			23:39
wonderchook		or if you have questions			23:39
wonderchook		this is the doodle for the Training Working Group meeting time next week:			23:40
IknowJoseph		When Frederic asks for someone to set up aWMS server, does he need hosting or just man power?			23:40
FredB		IknowJoseph: it was both			23:41
worldwidewolford [] entered the room.			23:41
Severin		something we are currently talking with Dane and Manel regarding OSM data mining in GIS contexts			23:41
nico [] entered the room.			23:41
FredB		Karen Payne s working on the WMS but we had a problem with the rara archive, should be fixed tomorrow			23:41
Severin		it appears it is tricky to use the OSM data on classical GIS softs			23:41
Severin		as ArcGIS			23:42
nico		Is this for DRC?			23:42
Severin		basically due to the OSM field structure			23:42
wonderchook		well, I think the issue is that we need to create extracts			23:43
wonderchook		the field structure works fine if you pick out data layers for people to use			23:43
wonderchook		FredB: sorry I haven't gotten the tiles up, the internet has been worse than normal			23:43
FredB		Severin: did you try the OSM plugin for ArcGis 10 ?			23:44
IknowJoseph		FredB: I may be able to help with with bandwidth			23:44
Severin left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection).			23:44
Severin [] entered the room.			23:45
FredB		Thanks for the help offers, a new rar archive should be posted tomorrow. I think Karen will do it but we get back to you if you ave problems			23:46
Severin		sorry back			23:46
wonderchook		Severin: could I be included in those discussions? I've been making extracts for GIS people			23:46
Severin		I tried arcgis OSM plugin when I was in Haiti and it never managed to load the data I wanted on a Pap neighbourhood			23:46
Severin		Soes it works ?			23:46
IknowJoseph		on the subject of training material, I wrote a short chapter on postgis + osm + ubuntu			23:47
Severin		But currently the QGIS 1.7.3 seems not to have the last ogr2ogr version			23:47
IknowJoseph		adapted the Windows instructions to Ubuntu			23:47
IknowJoseph		showed it to Nico and some others			23:47
IknowJoseph		happy to do more if it's wanted?			23:47
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Severin		and every export od OSM data from QGIS provides a  crazy attrib table			23:47
harry-wood		I know ESRI did a lot improvements to their OSM related software			23:48
IknowJoseph		Ubuntu 12.04 will be supported for 5 years, so could be a good target for documentation			23:48
Severin		OK I will test it again			23:48
harry-wood		so if you were trying >1 year ago…   probably it was more pants			23:48
Severin		haha			23:48
Severin		no was in December last year			23:48
harry-wood		but I have no direct experience of it myself			23:48
harry-wood		there' is this problem that the craziness of OSM tags needs to be mashed and squashed down into the orderliness of a shapefile			23:49
harry-wood		to avoid bazillions of attributes			23:49
Severin		the main concern are the colons			23:49
Severin		in the field names			23:49
wonderchook		Severin: we've been doing a lot with QGIS it doesn't have to have a crazy attribute table			23:50
wonderchook		hey IknowJoseph: it could be useful, but almost everyone we teach 99.9% is using Windows			23:50
wonderchook		and I don't see us switching their operating system			23:50
IknowJoseph <-- if interested			23:50
Severin		It does work till you stay in POstGIS and using QGIS			23:50
IknowJoseph		wonderchook: fair enough			23:50
wonderchook		Severin: if you stay in PostGIS with QGIS?			23:50
Severin		So I lose some departments that are based on ArcGIS			23:51
wonderchook		IknowJoseph: maybe if we were working with more tech savvy peole or were the ones handing them the hardware			23:51
flavour left the room (quit: Read error: Connection reset by peer).			23:51
harry-wood		I spent some time trying to come up with tools recommendations for MapAction			23:51
flavour [] entered the room.			23:52
harry-wood		but I'm not enough of a shapefile expert really.			23:52
IknowJoseph		wonderchook: yes, that's what i was thinking - complete deployments			23:53
harry-wood		But i did discover that there are at least three different utils named osm2shp!			23:53
PierZen		IknowJoseph : Your url opens on a blank page in my browser.			23:53
IknowJoseph		Pierzen: this one?			23:53
PierZen		a lot better!			23:53
IknowJoseph		=)			23:54
Severin		I tried to create a sql script to rename the field names within PgadminIII			23:54
Severin		but the thing is the whole exporting process becomes hard for non tech people			23:55
harry-wood		MapAction find geofabrik's download service useful for shapefiles, so I spent some time looking at the tool they use ( )  And trying compile this for windows, so they could run it themselves			23:55
harry-wood		I think this may be quite easy for somebody who knows how to compile C++ stuff on windows			23:55
Severin		as most of prject manager handling mostly Google Earth and KMZ that may be frustrated to see the whole data on OSM but nto having the possibility to put it on their usual GIS soft			23:56
nico		So on the Saint Marc project HOT has in Haiti, there's  a budget line to have GeoFabrik developing a data dowmload service based on a set of tags defined by a preset-			23:57
harry-wood		Oh now that sounds good!			23:57
nico		We need to document the issues that IOM came accross in Cite Soleil and make sure that this is part of the stuffs to fix			23:58
Severin		geofabrik download service produce the most common layers and tags (at least for Haiti) but for dedicated data we have to go through osm2pgsql			23:58
nico		I'll open up a thread on the Tech Group of HOT			23:58
Severin		which is easy in QGIS, but is currently limited by exports issue			23:58
nico		Well, the GeoFab service will be based on a preset-			23:58
nico		So you have for the future flexibility to show the tags you are interested in a survey or a mapping project			23:59
Severin		yes definbitely it will makes the things easier			23:59
wonderchook left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 480 seconds).			23:59
nico		This does not solve the issues that you are struggling right now			23:59
harry-wood		Severin: QGIS is presumably limited in the size of data you can load in no?			23:59
harry-wood		What was the exports issue/			23:59
Thursday, 26 January 2012			00:00
Severin		but we also need to provide a strong process on local machine that any GIS officer can easily use without any trouble			00:00
maning left the room (quit: Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)).			00:00
Severin		exports issue due to colons that create crazy .dbf for shapes			00:01
harry-wood		A need that mapaction presented, was to achieve shapefile daily updates with low-bandwidth			00:01
ant left the room.			00:01
Severin		and the postgis database can be accessed thourgh arcgis and the objets senn but as long there are field names with colons, the attribute table is blank			00:02
Severin		I am not sure regarding QGIS limits			00:02
Severin		So far I have not been restricted by that			00:03
Severin		at least			00:03
harry-wood		Ah so you just need to not have colons in the keys & values?			00:03
Severin		in the keys			00:03
Severin		but some common keys have			00:04
harry-wood		Yeah. Could be replaced by an '_' or something though, to fix the issue?			00:04
nico		There is also a need to clean parts of the data which had been edited through serveral versions of presets and been also edited the Haitian way with a lot of tag issues			00:04
nico		which right now calls for calling many tables to retrieve all the assessed data-			00:05
Severin		yes this is exactly what I tried to do			00:05
Severin		but maybe we can talk about these technical fixes in an other palce			00:06
Severin		all I wanted to say is that currently the local machine way with standard .osm is not easy and could dissapoint the humanitarian partner we have been working with			00:07
Severin		partnerS			00:07
maning [] entered the room.			00:08
harry-wood		Yes. Definitely seems to be a huge disconnect between between OSM and shapefiles, despite the various tools out there.			00:08
harry-wood		It's not just humanitarian use that would benefit from these problems getting easier			00:09
harry-wood		on another tech topic… I wanted to ask maning about Orbview3			00:10
harry-wood		maning: did you manage to georectify a philippines patch?			00:10
harry-wood		Some croatians were working on various bits.  I pulled out this example image			00:11
harry-wood		looks pretty good.  Is this… worldwide???			00:12
maning		not yet			00:12
maning		should we wait for the second level of corrections?			00:12
PierZen		Any Imagery around Libya?			00:12
maning		yes, its worldwide			00:13
harry-wood		We have imagery at a similar resolution that that sample….  wordwide???			00:14
PierZen		How do we interrogate to find an area?			00:14
maning		from the vector1 annoncement: "The initial data format available is GeoEye’s Basic Enhanced (L1B) product. Processing is underway for terrain corrected (L1Gst) product, and eventually the entire data set will be processed to the L1Gst level."			00:14
maning		L1Gst should provide some sytemtic topographic corrections			00:15
maning		are there plans for OSm to host tiles? or we host tiles ourselves?			00:15
harry-wood		I dont know of any plans by the London server team to do this			00:16
harry-wood		but we could ask them about it			00:16
maning		to browse coverage go to earthexplorer"			00:16
PierZen		thanks.			00:17
harry-wood		tried that, but what do I click on?			00:17
harry-wood		I can't work it out			00:17
maning		bbox search and check the orbview-3 as images			00:17
maning		Datasets > OrbView-3			00:18
harry-wood		ah hmm.  I see some little rectangular thumbnails			00:19
harry-wood		Big downloads I presume			00:19
harry-wood		ah no I can overlay image.  I see it now			00:20
maning		yep, so if we have central repo to upload tiles, I can do the select and process PH and dump them somewhere			00:20
PierZen		I selected a point in Libya, + in the list dataset > orbview3. No result found.			00:20
harry-wood		For haiti we set up some tilesets on the dev server			00:21
harry-wood		You have a dev server account maning?			00:21
IknowJoseph		Pierzen, how big was your point?			00:22
IknowJoseph		I selected the whole of Syria and got plenty of results			00:22
maning		nope.			00:22
PierZen		do you mean i should have a bbox? I simply clicke on the map.			00:22
IknowJoseph		try drawing a bb			00:23
nico		@ harrry : I was chekcing on site for haiti, interested in getting access to your resource			00:23
harry-wood		my resource?			00:24
maning		have to go, will cjeck logs later			00:24
nico		We might also need server hosting resources for one of the WB imagery that all GIS actors are holding as the reference one for all the PAP metropolitan areea			00:24
maning		bye			00:24
Severin		yes for some remote areas it could be interesting even if the data is from 2003-2007 right ?			00:24
nico		yes			00:25
Severin		bye			00:25
PierZen		IknowJoseph: Thanks. I have succeeded. I will look at this imagery.			00:25
maning left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection).			00:26
IknowJoseph		Pierzen: You need an account to download - presumably they let anyone register, but I've not tried			00:26
PierZen		I will try. We need better imagery for Libya Health Facility. Bing is not detailed in all areas of Libya.			00:26
harry-wood		I tried a bbox in London.  It comes back with a strange patchwork of different areas			00:27
PierZen		We can open the image. It gives a bigger screen. But after, the list of maps is gone.			00:29
nico		In Haiti, it looks like there is a set of images to chew-			00:29
IknowJoseph		Just tried a large area around oxford - came up with a single image full of clouds :-/			00:31
PierZen		wait tommorow may be better in England.			00:31
harry-wood		hehe			00:31
IknowJoseph		well, it's a pretty accurate picture :)			00:31
harry-wood		Yeah lots of cloudy images here			00:31
IknowJoseph		saves server space too - just symlink to some clouds			00:32
worldwidewolford left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection).			00:32
harry-wood		hehe			00:35
harry-wood		right. I'm off to bed