Humanitarian OSM Team/Meetings/TrainingWG/05 January 2015

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This meeting took place on IRC #hot channel at 15:00 UTC.

Participants: russdeffner, Blake, althio, clairedelune, emirhartato


Link to Hackpad agenda for 05 January 2015 Meeting


  1. Sort and prioritize issues on github/hotosm/learnosm
    • Generally agreed to make an organized effort to sort and prioritize the remaining issues
    • Link to Doodle Poll to schedule the triage session
    • Brief reminder that Jessica is working with us and any questions, issues or pull requests from her should be high priority
  2. TM2 Welcome Letter
    • No objections to the English text now in the wiki
    • German translation done, other translations to start and kept in wiki
    • English version is the main version, changes should be made only if needed and proposed/discussed on the "Discussion" page first.
  3. HOT Announce only email list was discussed and a request was made for the Communications WG to perhaps address the details of how it will work.
  4. Discussion of the Moodle Learning Management System testing environment dodobas installed for us
    • Our existing testing environment is very rough, under construction, a work in progress and is for demonstration and testing only, but we decided to leave it open to anyone who would like to look at it as we feel feedback is vital to developing a useful tool.
    • Generally agreed we are in favor of moving forward with testing Moodle and are excited about the possibilities it offers us.
    • Laura, also known as Jeeltcraft is our resident expert. She worked with Blake last week and will be working Claire and whomever else is interested in the coming weeks on customizing our installation and best practices for creating courses among other things.
    • We agreed that we will come up guidelines for how to organize courses and award Open Badges
    • Once guidelines are worked out we think anyone who was interested could create courses
    • Some of the the uses, benefits and expectations we have for Moodle
    1. Some simple courses for quick and simple introductory badges can really help boost new mappers confidence.
    2. An effective training tool, but not a replacement for the training materials we have now (LearnOSM and all the various tutorials and guides).
    3. Help identify motivated mappers. Anyone who tries to get multiple badges is someone we want to make sure we are reaching out to.
    4. Help to create groups of mappers we can reach out to directly for very specific mapping activities (Pre-mapping roads or difficult mapping like water and waterways).
    5. Increase validation consistency.
    6. No requirement to go through all the training material in a course, people can "test out" to earn a badge if they are already experienced in a course area.
    7. Increase Activation Coordination skills


16:03 russdeffner: Good day everyone, do we have Blake or Claire here to chair the Training WG meeting?
16:03 Blake: Hi russ
16:03 Blake: Tallguy sends his regrets that he will not be able to attend today.
16:04 althio: Hi all, greetings and wishes!
16:04 clairedelune: Hello!
16:05 Blake: Hi :)
16:05 russdeffner: Hello Claire, connectivity issues?
16:06 clairedelune: yes indeed, but seems it's working now ;)
16:06 clairedelune: Have you started yet?
16:06 Blake: Todays agenda for the Training WG meeting is here:
16:06 emirhartato: hi everyone
16:06 clairedelune: Hello Emir!
16:06 Blake: No we were just settling in Claire, hi Emir
16:06 clairedelune: ok, great
16:06 emirhartato: I'm still on the train commuting back home. I'm on my phone
16:07 emirhartato: I'll try to follow the agenda
16:07 emirhartato: Hi Blake
16:07 emirhartato: Happy new year guys
16:07 Blake: :)
16:08 clairedelune: (:
16:09 russdeffner: I may be having some connectivity issues myself, super windy here today, wrestling with hackpad atm
16:09 Blake: Hackpad is up/down for me just now as well.
16:10 clairedelune: ok, no worries
16:10 clairedelune: do you want a copy/paste here?
16:11 clairedelune: 1st point is prioritizing issues on learnosm site, started at the last meeting
16:12 Blake: I thought it went well. We explored how it worked and priortized a few issues in the process.
16:12 Blake: We used mumble and in conjuctions
16:13 Blake: The only thing we didn't like was that I think we found that could only assign 1 tag to an issue, but it could read multiple tags that were put on an issue in github directly.
16:13 clairedelune: that's great, but what's the difference between medium and high priority?
16:15 clairedelune: oh, so the tickets with several tags were added through github? or only the tags were added that way?
16:15 Blake: More than one tag had to be added through github
16:15 Blake: So I think the process was, priotize in and then add additional tags via github.
16:15 clairedelune: Can anyone add issues directly on waffle or should people be waiting for the next common session?
16:15 clairedelune: ok
16:16 Blake: We do need to schedule another session to get issues priortized
16:16 Blake: But I think people can add issues, new issues via github at any time.
16:16 Blake: And really my feeling was that
16:17 Blake: people who wanted to, could give issues a priority outside of a group meeting and then when the group got
16:17 Blake: together if anyone didn't like a priority, they could bring it up then
16:17 Blake: or via email before a group meeting.
16:18 Blake: But that we wanted to get the issues sorted so work could get started in as organized fashion as possible.
16:18 Blake: But I do not think anyone adjusted any priorities since our group meeting last time.
16:19 clairedelune: ok, perfect
16:19 althio: Nothing done during holidays indeed
16:19 Blake: Our number one priority was getting Michael63 going which he is going full speed now, so thats great :)
16:19 clairedelune: And then issues can be closed by the author of the modification or by someone else?
16:20 clairedelune: yeah!
16:20 Blake: And by "getting him going" I reallmy mean us getting ourselves organized so he could contribute, he didn't need any "getting going" :)
16:21 clairedelune: Cool! Anything else to be mentionned on that point?
16:21 Blake: Not for me, but can we set up a group meeting to go over the rest of the issues via the email group?
16:23 Blake: Oh a Doodle thats what we need, I'll create a doodle so we can find a time
16:23 clairedelune: learnosm-coord, right?
16:24 clairedelune: yeap, doodling is fine
16:24 Blake: Oh, I'll post the doodle to both, coord and the training wg group email.
16:24 clairedelune: ok
16:24 clairedelune: thanks
16:25 Blake: Oh, I do have one more related point, but anyone else have a comment before I bring it up?
16:26 Blake: ok.
16:26 Blake: Jessica is working with us on LearnOSM as part of her OPW internship.
16:26 clairedelune: yes...
16:27 clairedelune: and that's great!
16:27 Blake: She is working hard to become familier with LearnOSM's needs
16:27 Blake: So anything we can do to answer her questions and help her close tickets should be a big priority for us
16:28 Blake: And she is thinking about a larger, sort of stand along project related to LearnOSM
16:28 Blake: stand alone*
16:28 Blake: That we should also probably help her specify, but be careful not to let it be an undefined project that she can't finish in her internship time.
16:29 Blake: The project she applied for is a Quick Start guide to add to LearnOSM
16:29 clairedelune: agreed that it should be a priority, but don't know exactly what is meant by stand-alone project related to LEarnOSM
16:29 Blake: Well like the Quick Start guide, that would sort of be a stand alone project that would be incorporated into LearnOSM
16:30 Blake: In other words, just a project, not individual issue tickets, something that is 1 thing she can point to as a project she did as part of the internship.
16:30 clairedelune: quick start guide to start HOT mapping, right? a bit like what Nick did?
16:31 Blake: Yes, exactly, a bit like Nick did
16:31 Blake: She and Kate (and us?) need to decide and then specify what it will be. We for sure are just supporting her however she and Kate feel would be most helpful.
16:33 Blake: I just wanted to remind everyone, thats all. Time is ticking away for her and I want her to be able to put something out she is proud of, it is a tough situation to just jump in and try and make a project from scratch.
16:33 clairedelune: But it is still up to us to inform them if what they plan has already been created.
16:33 clairedelune: but you are right that it needs to be some kind of accomplishment and not only easing our daily routine
16:34 Blake: Oh ya. Kate was clear that with the recent activity on LearnOSM, the project might very well have to change.
16:34 clairedelune: Thanks for the reminder and the update on this!
16:34 emirhartato: is their plan available somewhere?
16:35 Blake: Emir: I think they are working out a plan this week maybe. The holiday slowed things down
16:36 emirhartato: I see
16:36 Blake: I will make sure Jessica lets us know
16:37 clairedelune: Second point: welcome letter: there are English and German versions ready. Am working on the French one, will welcome a reviewer, althio maybe, afterwards.
16:37 clairedelune: Are there other languages being worked on at the moment?
16:37 emirhartato: I can't speak French :p
16:38 emirhartato: I'll work in Indonesian this week
16:38 Blake: I'll put the github issue in for the Tasking Manager
16:38 clairedelune: Terima kasih Emir, I'll find someone else for reviewing French ;)
16:38 emirhartato: Hehe... I'm surprised :)
16:38 clairedelune: Blake, you mean for getting the message sent out to the OSM accounts, right?
16:39 clairedelune: (ahaha)
16:39 Blake: Yes. My impression is that it will start with going to the built in "messaging" system
16:39 althio: clairedelune: of course for a review in French
16:40 Blake: And then as part of pgiraud & dodobas's long term development plan for TM2
16:40 clairedelune: Ok, yes, we'll see which solution they find. Thanks althio!
16:40 emirhartato: but we need to lock the English as the master language. Means, it will not changed again for good
16:40 Blake: get worked in either as email directly to users or via the OSM messaging system, which does send emails.
16:40 althio: really, lock?
16:41 emirhartato: meaning there won't be any change
16:41 emirhartato: *changes
16:42 Blake: Yes, I am not planning on making any more changes to it, I consider it done, unless as Claire said, translators give feedback on needed changes.
16:42 althio: I don't like the idea to fix an historic and unmovable version
16:42 clairedelune: Regarding the English version, I was discussing the fact that the new list HOT announce could also be mentionned. But as it hasn't be officially launched yet, that will come later.
16:42 emirhartato: I have bad experience when I translating strings (from other project), they did not tell me that they've changed the English so I have to retranslate and review again. Kinda annoying
16:43 Blake: I haven't heard about the HOT announce list except as a possible idea, is there concrete movement forward on it?
16:43 clairedelune: Can we actually lock a translation on the wiki?
16:43 Blake: Emir: If it helps, at the bottom of the wiki page it says the last date it was edited so you would know if it changed, and then the history tab will show you the exact changes.
16:43 russdeffner: we've actually had the announce list for a while, just haven't really used it
16:44 clairedelune: HOT announce mailing list has already been created, it will be a very low volume list
16:44 emirhartato: Blake: that should help
16:44 Blake: I will put a note at the top of the English version that says if you want to make a change, please first, only propose it on the "talk" page for the item.
16:44 althio: Also another wiki feature that you could use: get notified of modifications on english page
16:44 emirhartato: +1
16:45 clairedelune: ok +1 for talk page before modifications and translators "watching" the English page to get notified of changes
16:46 clairedelune: anyway, each time the English page will change, I guess TM managers will need to be notified too so they can update the message too, won't they?
16:47 Blake: <derail> I am very interested in the Announce only list, I understand its purpose fully and offer to admin the list if that is part of the hold up </derail>
16:48 russdeffner: I think it's more just teaching people when to use the announce list versus the main
16:49 Blake: I was thinking it would only be able to be posted to by a limited number of HOT people, no replies, no discussion, just official announces.
16:49 clairedelune: There's some kind of newsletter being worked on which would be most appropriate to go to a wider announce list vs hot list
16:50 Blake: Someone, the board, comm wg, says "this goes out to the announce list" and something goes out on it, replies bounce with a message to use the main hot email list
16:50 clairedelune: I was actually thinking it should be a "no-reply" list... but this could still be discussed, I think I could give you an update on this at the next meeting
16:51 Blake: +1 claire
16:51 clairedelune: yes exactly Blake
16:51 russdeffner: I'm not sure the details, but probably needs to get on the Communication WG agenda :)
16:51 clairedelune: Sure
16:52 Blake: Well lets get it on the agenda for Friday
16:52 clairedelune: Friday?
16:53 clairedelune: Can we move to the third point after that?
16:53 russdeffner: CWG is Friday 20:00 UTC
16:53 clairedelune: oh... I'll be flying back to Congo at that time
16:53 clairedelune: will read the minutes/notes afterwards
16:55 russdeffner: ok, I think we can 'table' this for now
16:55 Blake nods agreeably.
16:55 clairedelune: Third point: Moodle. I'm going to be working on the admin side with Laura during this week I think. And another specific meeting should be planned with her to discuss the details (or during another Training WG meeting)
16:56 Blake: I have been working on it a fair amount already, on the content generation part
16:56 Blake: with Laura
16:57 Blake: So, I'd like to be included. Has anyone looked at the sample course I set up? I know it is rough, really rough, but the core of my idea for courses is there.
16:57 clairedelune: I had given you additional rights a few weeks ago, but wasn't able to do the same with Laura yet
16:57 Blake: She's all set now
16:57 Blake: Full admin rights to the site
16:57 clairedelune: oh, perfect then, that was the point
16:58 Blake: All of us are Managers now on the site, or everyone who had logged in, nick, althio, laura, claire, myself.
16:59 Blake: so Emir if you log in, I'll make sure you get Manager rights too (do not ask me what Manager rights mean, but there are only 3 roles so far: manager, course creator/teach, admin)
16:59 russdeffner: oh, yes, I've only logged-in as a guest to check it out
17:00 Blake: It works out pretty well, you can be manager, course creator, admin, and then it will let you see any content as just a guest or student so you see what they see.
17:01 clairedelune: Yes sure, the idea is there. Quiz is nice. With more time, some other multimedia material could be added, like videos you had previously made, that kind of things
17:02 clairedelune: And specific courses could be added for mapping in a specific environment, adding more pictures from the field for instance
17:02 Blake: Yes, I would like to get the Highway Tag Africa course done, I have been making some screen casts and each topic should have one.
17:03 althio: Blake:
17:03 Blake: Laura said youtube videos were a very common "resource" used for "topics"
17:03 althio: Blake: I had only a peek, I like the basic structure
17:04 Blake: Ok, cool. I think if we decide to use it, content will have to be reviewed by all of us. So if we had a Highway Tag Africa course
17:04 Blake: all of us would have to review the course in full and agree it is correct and evaluates a participant's abilities fairly
17:05 althio: a majority of us? ;)
17:05 Blake: And I expect only a small percentage of mappers will make use of it (I'd like to be wrong)
17:05 Blake: althio: Fair enough, a majority :)
17:05 Blake: But even if just a small percentage of mappers use it, I think that will be immensly helpful to us.
17:06 russdeffner: I think this could be a start to some sort of 'certification', which would increase the usage
17:07 Blake: I think for me, it is offering tiny "certifications" as mappers go along.
17:07 russdeffner: yes, but one of my early thoughts was to certify Activation Coordinators
17:07 Blake: You get "certified" in pre-mapping roads, 'certified' in waterway mapping, etc
17:08 althio: and yet another link to share besides wiki, learnOSM, IRC, we add another resource; So we will need to fine-tune our directions to each of these resources
17:08 russdeffner: so we could say you need to complete all X of these small certifications to be a certified 'AC'
17:08 clairedelune: If there are some short but well structured courses on specific subjects (like mapping Northern Mali) that could be done in an hour or less, it could greatly help beginners joining a mapathon and this kind of events
17:09 Blake: Interesting claire, russ, althio
17:10 althio: a little certification received by a new user is also a big bag of self-confidence for him/her to get to the real stuff and know what kind of project and tasks can be tackled
17:11 Blake: good point althio, there should be a super easy, anyone can pass, badge
17:11 russdeffner: So I would say this is absolutely something we see as valuable, for many different reasons
17:11 emirhartato: hohoho... I would myself get certificated *tempting*
17:11 Blake: It should be fun as well for experience people :)
17:12 Blake: experienced*
17:12 emirhartato: i mean "get myself certificated"
17:12 althio: I also mean the new user will assess more easily what can be done and what is above his/her current level
17:12 Blake: Also an excellent point I had not thought of althio
17:13 althio: if the badges and instructions are on par
17:14 clairedelune: I agree with the funny part of this but I don't think we should have 50 badges or so... would there be some reasonable numbers of badges to be created? Maybe some classes/quizzes could give you "stars" or whatever. And with 10 stars ou could get a badge...
17:14 Blake: Hmmm. I like collecting badges for each type of 'certification'
17:15 Blake: The badges are quite nice and with mozilla open badges, useful to badge holders outside of HOT and OSM for like job applications and such.
17:15 althio: 1 skill, 1 badge?
17:15 Blake: that is my feeling althio
17:15 clairedelune: That's an option too, I need to check further Mozilla's ones
17:16 Blake: basically HOT registers as a badge issuer and agrees to have criteria that someone actually did something to earn it
17:16 Blake: there are dozens (hundreds?) of badge issuers currently in the program
17:17 Blake: (i'd go with dozens at least :)
17:17 Blake: But as Russ said, I think we are all agreed we'd like to move forward working with moodle?
17:19 clairedelune: Of course, I think Moodle is the best to fit our purpose and methods.
17:19 clairedelune: And I'm looking forward checking Laura's new theme.
17:23 Blake: Yes, Laura seems really interested in work on it. Maybe we can agree on our intents and methods and course creators can contribute under Laura's administration. If she would like to do that of course.
17:23 althio: new theme? you are making me drool ^^
17:25 Blake: And maybe Jessica wants to make a course or two for a project. But Jessica did say she was more interested in coding (javascript, python, node.js) so it was just an idea I was throwing out there.
17:25 clairedelune: This could be mentionned to Jessica, in case she would be interested
17:27 clairedelune: yeaa althio, waiting for it and her.
17:28 clairedelune: do we consider that anyone who's part of this group can suggest and start creating a course (if he/she wants)
17:28 clairedelune: ?
17:29 Blake: I would say suggestions for courses are open now, but we sort of need to agree on how to organize the course. How big their scope will be mainly.
17:29 Blake: Actually, I take that back, yes, I agree Claire, anyone want to suggest and/or start making one, go for it.
17:30 Blake: There are a number of different course "types" the differences I do not know
17:30 Blake: So we might as well each look at it, ask Laura and give whatever course type we want a try.
17:31 Blake: She has a lot of info about what course and activity types are most useful for other things like statistics gathering and such.
17:31 clairedelune: Do you think it shouldn't be open to guests at the moment? as long as badges are not activated yet, I guess there's no issue; but I still think it should be obvious our moodle platform and courses are currently under construction
17:32 clairedelune: Yes, course types and more needs to be discussed with her
17:32 Blake: claire: I think you are exactly right, if we are not awarding badges yet, it is clear it is under construction, then feedback is really needed so might as well be open.
17:32 Blake: "hey blake, those videos are totally unhelpful"
17:32 Blake: "hey blake, that quiz is impossible"
17:33 Blake: etc
17:34 Blake: Quick off topic: Is anyone here in a North/South American time zone? I ask for helping make the Doodle schedule for issues sorting.
17:35 clairedelune: Russ maybe?
17:35 clairedelune: russdeffner
17:35 Blake: Ya, that was my guess, and I think jessica
17:35 althio: I guess so
17:36 Blake: I think the rest of us are pretty well spread out
17:36 emirhartato: sorry guys, but almost midnight here. I'm going to sleep :)
17:37 Blake: Good night Emir, thank you for hanging out so late
17:37 althio: bye emirhartato
17:37 russdeffner: I'm here in US
17:37 emirhartato: bye :)
17:37 russdeffner: was just struggling to log into Moodle
17:37 Blake: did you get it russ?
17:38 russdeffner: I created a profile on the base site but that wouldn't let me log into our site
17:38 Blake: I just used the google account
17:38 Blake: i mean my google account
17:38 russdeffner: couldn't see the log-in with g+ on my laptop
17:38 Blake: You are in our moodle
17:38 Blake: listed as a user
17:38 russdeffner: so went to desktop and finally saw that
17:39 russdeffner: now I guess I have 2 profiles on Moodle?
17:39 clairedelune: no you have one only
17:39 russdeffner: anyway - that's a bit of a frustration with the current set-up
17:40 Blake: There is a main site for moodle you registered at?
17:40 clairedelune: you are logged in with your hotosm address
17:41 russdeffner: yes, I should be logged in now - whith @hotosm address
17:41 russdeffner: but I also set up an account with that address
17:41 russdeffner: registered at
17:41 clairedelune: actually, we will probably need to register our HOT LMS on, that's not the case yet
17:41 clairedelune: I think we should get some courses ready first
17:42 russdeffner: ah
17:42 clairedelune: but I didn't know that could make authentification tricky sorry
17:42 russdeffner: yes, since our site isn't registered on the main it probably won't accept those log-ins
17:42 russdeffner: so if folks don't have a g+ account they'll need to log-in as guest
17:43 clairedelune: Dodobas wanted to get OSM authentification system but that was not possible yet, but we could check for additional ways to log in
17:44 clairedelune: Do you think we should register on asap? or do you think we should wait to get a better version first?
17:44 russdeffner: oh, osm log-in would be great
17:45 russdeffner: but I think just letting folks know they either need a g+ acount or log-in as guest until further notice
17:45 clairedelune: ok, at least for the testing phase
17:46 russdeffner: then maybe it's just stupid windows 8 that for some reason doesn't show the g+ log-in
17:46 clairedelune: Blake, you still there?
17:46 Blake: I am sorry
17:46 Blake: was doing doogle
17:46 Blake: doodle
17:47 Blake: I think we should wait a bit first.
17:47 Blake: Nothing is holding us up from making courses/content
17:47 Blake: so I'd hold off on registering with moodle yet
17:47 Blake: the host address might change or something for real "deployment"
17:48 clairedelune: +1
17:50 clairedelune: Anything else for now?
17:50 russdeffner: I'm good
17:51 Blake: So you will let us know if you get together with Laura? I'd like to sit in, I look forward to making courses, but for me at least, it is complicated :)
17:51 Blake: And I'm good as well. I'll post the irc log
17:51 Blake: after we end officially
17:52 Blake: <-- LearnOSM Priortization session meeting poll
17:52 Blake: (it's a wide one :)
17:54 clairedelune: Of course, let's meet at least the 3 of us, about our mooc administration, there would be no reason for you to not be part of it! But first we can convene a time/day by email within the existing thread
17:55 clairedelune: I guess we are done for today, thanks to all and best wishes!
17:55 althio: thank you all
17:55 Blake: Ok will do, thank you Claire and everyone else.
17:55 Blake: Oh Claire, I keep meaning to catch you, do you have a few extra minutes?
17:56 clairedelune: Thank you Blake for posting the log. By the way, each training WG is supposed to have 2 co-leads (one part of the Board and one who's not part of it but active in the group)
17:57 clairedelune: If anyone wants to volunteer, I guess we could agree on someone to officially co-lead the group
17:57 clairedelune: maybe for next meeting
17:57 Blake: I type pretty fast and am glad to help
18:03 russdeffner: ok, off to my other duties, have a great day! Happy New Year! Etc...
18:04 clairedelune: Thanks Russ!
18:04 Blake: Bye russ
18:07 clairedelune: ciaooo