[9:00pm] wonderchook: okay new topic, new meeting. FUNDRAISING!
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[9:01pm] rrbaker: Two people are going to look into partychat, which sounds like it should cost 4.95 a minute. Who wants that?
[9:01pm] rrbaker: I'm going to hack on this here wiki page
[9:01pm] wonderchook: awesome rrbaker
[9:01pm] wonderchook: okay so for fundraising there is also a simple agenda
[9:01pm] wonderchook: 1. Goals 2. Types of Funding We Want to Seek 3. Current Projects and Ideas
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[9:04pm] CGI340: hi - sorry I'm late
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[9:05pm] wonderchook: okay since we had some new joiners I'm going to post the agenda again
[9:05pm] wonderchook: 1. Goals 2. Types of Funding We Want to Seek 3. Current Projects and Ideas
[9:05pm] kpayne: Thanks
[9:06pm] wonderchook: so I think the big goal is strategy around types of fundraising HOT wants to do and how to accomplish that. Do others have specifics
[9:07pm] reinier: As a goal that sounds like it.
[9:07pm] robertosn: somethng similr to what wikipedia was doing?
[9:08pm] robertosn: postin adds on the website "a message from the fiunder..." I think it worked..more and more people are aware of OSM so they shoudl be aware also of HOT
[9:09pm] wonderchook: well, so HOT is a separate organization from the OSM Foundation, that isn't to say the OSMF wouldn't support us under the right conditions
[9:09pm] wonderchook: I think there are 2 types of funding we are in need of right now
[9:09pm] wonderchook: 1. sustainability funding, meaning core funding so we can have a budget
[9:10pm] wonderchook: 2. project funding. things like giving equipment/training to people in a specific area so they can prepare/respond to an event
[9:11pm] wonderchook: another project would be we want to translate an OSM manual into Haitian Creole, but we need a little bit of money to make that happen (we meaning myself and other people who have discussed it)
[9:12pm] reinier: @ 2: could it be an idea to allow local organisations to team up with HOT while looking for funding.
[9:12pm] reinier: HOT could explain to and encourage local organisations to help find funding
[9:13pm] reinier: this could be a win-win for both local partners & HOT
[9:13pm] wonderchook: reinier: that can be one of the methods of course
[9:14pm] kpayne: So you seeking general funding for HOT as an organization, and you have specific projects that HOT wants to do and are looking for good funding matches - is that right? I may be out of the loop so sorry if this is covered elsewhere
[9:14pm] wonderchook: kpayne: nope it is not covered elsewhere
[9:15pm] wonderchook: yes that is correct
[9:15pm] wonderchook: there are some of us that work on HOT full-time but it is a tenuous relationship with paying rent/feeding families etc. But it does allow us to further things, which might be harder if we had fulltime jobs
[9:15pm] wonderchook: also being able to afford hardware/imagery/etc if needed
[9:17pm] reinier: Do we go over candidate Donors that we could build a long-term relationship with?
[9:17pm] mib_ucavab: wood point wonderchook
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[9:17pm] reinier: M$, WB, Gates, Knightfoudation?
[9:18pm] mib_ucavab: carter foudation,
[9:18pm] reinier: Soros
[9:18pm] mib_ucavab: i have noi pexpeiernce on foiundrising or financing this kind oof stuf.
[9:18pm] mib_ucavab: UNOOSA UNISDR. UNCS
[9:18pm] wonderchook: reinier: so, I'm not sure. there is the "who" to ask. but then the "what are we asking"
[9:19pm] mib_ucavab: suport to have a minimal coropse of people working on it, simialrl tu Humaniry road etc...
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[9:19pm] reinier: There is 2 ways to cover the overheads: you can find someone who really really likes you, or you can bury the costs in your project proposals
[9:20pm] wonderchook: reinier: understood, but at the moment the projects are making it hard to concentrate on other stuff
[9:20pm] wonderchook: believe me
[9:20pm] wonderchook: person who worked on a project all day
[9:20pm] wonderchook: anyway, I think we need to do a combination is all I'm saying
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[9:21pm] reinier: i understand. but we are now discussing strategy, not who will write the proposal
[9:21pm] wonderchook: ha
[9:22pm] wonderchook: anyway along with projects there is fundraising for specific projects, vs. getting contracts to do them
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[9:23pm] mkl: hi
[9:23pm] reinier: so, basically, overhead is not just a matter of cash, but also of time
[9:24pm] mkl: sorry for my timezone stupidity
[9:24pm] wonderchook: reinier: well cash and time equal each other in some ways
[9:24pm] wonderchook: meaning if you have to spend 80 hours writing a proposal to get paid for 80 hours worth of other work, then was it worth it?
[9:24pm] reinier: some people find it easier to provide time than cash
[9:25pm] reinier: again, the wikipedia example, btw
[9:25pm] wonderchook: reinier: right, and we always need volunteers to do things. but there are also costs as well
[9:25pm] reinier: what if we found a volunteer fundraiser?
[9:25pm] reinier: or someone who does it professionally?
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[9:25pm] reinier: for a fee?
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[9:26pm] reinier: would get workload off of the GIS people and create some breathingspace
[9:28pm] wonderchook: well, so I don't think we are in a position to pay someone doing fundraising
[9:28pm] wonderchook: if someone wanted to volunteer that is a different story
[9:28pm] wonderchook: honestly I do a lot of our fundraising right now
[9:28pm] wonderchook: along with Nicolas
[9:28pm] reinier: there are people who do no-cure-pay things
[9:28pm] wonderchook: part of the reason for this meeting was also to get feedback as to what we are fundraising
[9:29pm] wonderchook: I mean, I could just do whatever I want. But that doesn't really seem like it would create community or a desire to volunteer/work for HOT
[9:30pm] humberto: Well, I've experience with fundrasing in http://fnpi.org, what ca I say is fundraiser normally bill by success.
[9:31pm] payne: i'm happy to try and do some fundraising
[9:31pm] mkl: i think this really depends on the kind of funding. for a project, the time put into proposal preparation can be considered admin costs.
[9:31pm] payne: but i would need to get up to speed on specific projects that you want to fund, then I can seek appropriate matches
[9:31pm] humberto: But I don't know if we will look for professional fundraisers in stead of do by our self.
[9:31pm] wonderchook: yeah, personally I think we should do it ourselves
[9:32pm] mkl: if that's being presented to a donor, or in response to an rfp
[9:32pm] wonderchook: also there are more grassroots funding, like doing a kickstarter for a specific project
[9:32pm] mkl: it would be just as much work explaining to a professional fundraiser what we want
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[9:33pm] mkl: right, and for core funding .. i think only HOT can work out those needs. and then, we have to depend on relationships with and connections to find the right funder.
[9:33pm] humberto: share opinion, the focus is stablish projects
[9:33pm] humberto: the share it with fundraising tema
[9:33pm] humberto: team
[9:33pm] mkl: that of course can come from connections anyone has ... but it does need to be coordinated, so we look like we have our s**t together ... hence this WG
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[9:35pm] reinier: is there a plan/budget for the core funding part? something pitchable? should there be?
[9:35pm] humberto: I agree with coordination
[9:35pm] samlarsen1: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team/Working_groups/Fundraising
[9:36pm] samlarsen1: Maybe we should start to list our fundraising priorities
[9:37pm] wonderchook: sounds good to list them
[9:37pm] mkl: Just reviewing the conversation I see 1) what do we need to fund 2) what are the ways to fund them 3) who does the fundraising
[9:37pm] mkl: seems good to start with 1
[9:38pm] wonderchook: sounds good to me
[9:38pm] reinier: so far mentioned: some people are working fulltime. they could earn a salary. Then kate mentioned imagery and hardware.
[9:38pm] humberto: Sam (hi!); i Jus put some ideas in wiki pages.
[9:39pm] humberto: 1) We need to fund mapping projects
[9:39pm] humberto: 1.1) Imagery ?
[9:40pm] mkl: I think the imagery, hardware, support is for ongoing projects ... like helping COSMHA
[9:40pm] samlarsen1: Kate, in your opinion do we need more paid people like you?
[9:41pm] humberto: reinier you can include into projects honoraries for human resource.
[9:41pm] wonderchook: samlarsen1: you could start with "do you and nicolas need to know if you will be able to pay your rent?"
[9:41pm] mkl: and there are new project opportunities. i'd say mostly these have come from RfP type situations
[9:41pm] wonderchook: but the real issue is having people available to take on new projects
[9:41pm] reinier: humberto: true, you can earn the salaries back in projecs, but if its a salary it goes into your ongoing budget.
[9:41pm] wonderchook: sometimes things get signed and then it is "oh can you start in a week and a half"
[9:42pm] mkl: yes, true ... that's the training issue
[9:42pm] mkl: HOT needs a core to keep things going in the trough between projects
[9:42pm] wonderchook: yeah, exactly to smooth things out
[9:42pm] reinier: we need a secretary behind a desk
[9:43pm] reinier: to pick the phone and answer emails
[9:43pm] wonderchook: and I wanted to make it clear, I'm not complaining about the fact that I get to work for HOT fulltime
[9:43pm] mkl: so it's not a full time thing, necessarily
[9:43pm] mkl: it's partially core, partially project
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[9:43pm] wonderchook: +1 mkl
[9:43pm] mkl: reinier: yes, hiring an admin would be cost effective and wise
[9:44pm] mkl: there's no need for an office
[9:44pm] reinier: should that really be a mapper?
[9:44pm] mkl: but do need someone to do bookkeeping, make travel arrangements, etc
[9:44pm] mkl: no, i don't think a mapper wants to do this
[9:44pm] samlarsen1: wonderchook - we need to make sure that you are in a stable positiion so that you can focus your energy on the task at hand, it that means more funding for yoruselves, then so be it
[9:44pm] reinier: does he/she need to be in DC?
[9:44pm] mkl: that would be helpful, since HOT is registered in DC
[9:44pm] mkl: but not necessarily
[9:45pm] reinier: also a lot more expensive
[9:45pm] wonderchook: I don't think it is fulltime job in the first place
[9:45pm] mkl: sure, there are sites where you can hire an admin online
[9:45pm] wonderchook: honestly if the person is responsive and trustworthy that is what I care about
[9:45pm] mkl: i think being able to meet in person sometimes is important
[9:45pm] wonderchook: yes it is
[9:45pm] wonderchook: then mkl and I aren't going to the post office
[9:46pm] wonderchook: or figure out how to do things online when that makes them more complicated
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[9:47pm] mkl: i was in the post office yesterday, good times
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[9:47pm] reinier: i just had someone like that, looking for a job in the office
[9:48pm] wonderchook: honestly though paying people to do a lot of admin stuff would be awesome, but having sustainable funding in general is more important to me
[9:48pm] reinier: but i am not in DC
[9:48pm] wonderchook: honestly the job is about 5 hours a week right now
[9:48pm] reinier: they are related, as the funding pays this person
[9:49pm] reinier: this is the only overhead costs there are?
[9:50pm] reinier: all other costs are project related?
[9:51pm] wonderchook: no
[9:51pm] wonderchook: there are costs in travel, attending meetings/conferences
[9:51pm] wonderchook: just having the board meet
[9:51pm] wonderchook: training people so they can be deployed
[9:52pm] wonderchook: also if we want to remotely activate and be reliable there are going to be other costs to ensure someone is always able to coordinate
[9:53pm] reinier: which could be someone else than the 2 staff + admin?
[9:54pm] wonderchook: oh, not necessarily someone else. it all depends on what the goals are
[9:54pm] wonderchook: for example having 2 staff could cover the meeting/conference stuff
[9:54pm] wonderchook: and even a lot of the deployments
[9:54pm] mkl: i think the bulk of activation needs to be volunteer and community. that's the essence of HOT.
[9:55pm] wonderchook: mkl: yes the bulk does, but there have been times where nobody could/had time to pick it up
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[9:55pm] mkl: what we don't have right now are even defined requirements for what that takes
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[9:55pm] mkl: true
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[9:57pm] wonderchook: anyway, I think basically we need 2 full-time staff and a part-time admin. If we start to have bigger projects we'll need more
[9:57pm] wonderchook: but the projects actually will be covering the majority of salaries anyway
[9:58pm] mkl: again it's a peak and trough. for the most part, activation protocol can get covered by HOT volunteers. there will be gaps, and we need a backup.
[9:58pm] larryone: wow - busy in here today
[9:58pm] mkl: yup
[9:58pm] mdupont: ok
[9:59pm] flavour: larryone: meetings
[9:59pm] larryone: aaah
[9:59pm] reinier: so, there needs to be a budget for hiring someone, right here, right now, because there is a vulcano eruption, and all professional HOTTERS are somewhere in a jungle doing community mapping?
[9:59pm] reinier: and, this budget, we might not use, if there are no activations
[10:00pm] larryone: so has anyone mentioned the stuff we were talking with simonpoole about - trying to get non-agreers of odbl to make exceptions for HOT data? or is that a discussion for another day?
[10:00pm] mkl: reinier: i was thinking that ... not sure
[10:01pm] wonderchook: larryone: different topic, different day. maybe bring up on the mailing list
[10:01pm] mkl: that's another discussion ... but i think we're almost done?
[10:01pm] larryone: cool, might well do that
[10:01pm] mkl: at least i am, have to run
[10:01pm] mkl: summary of the discussion would be good, if anyone is daring
[10:01pm] wonderchook: not sure if we are done=)
[10:02pm] mkl: go for it!
[10:02pm] wonderchook: so, for core funding what is the best next step?
[10:02pm] reinier: I think we need a budget for the overhead, except the salaries
[10:02pm] reinier: salaries we could decide (or not), to pay 100% out of projects
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[10:02pm] reinier: then we can discuss if that budget is fundable anywhere
[10:03pm] reinier: and in a next meeting we can discuss individual projects?
[10:03pm] humberto_yances: having 503(c) will help to get donation different from project running.
[10:04pm] reinier: and with all the training and conferences (that is advovacy right?) we can make a story
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[10:04pm] wonderchook: humberto_yances: that is being worked on, in my freetime
[10:04pm] wonderchook: reinier: yes exactly advocacy,
[10:04pm] humberto_yances: wonderchook: OK, got it.
[10:05pm] wonderchook: sooo what about the other types of projects, where there isn't going to be a big funder. where we maybe ask people to apply small donations
[10:05pm] reinier: community training advocacy empowerment should do the trick
[10:05pm] wonderchook: what should the process be for that?
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[10:06pm] samlarsen1: the recent server funding drive worked well for OSM pre-xmas, maybe we could use the same process
[10:06pm] reinier: it has to be superconcrete indeed (like hardware)
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[10:07pm] reinier: We are HOT, we want to do ABC in XYZ. That is a good idea, join us.
[10:07pm] wonderchook: so at the moment we want to fund translating a bunch of documentation/josm being translated into Creole
[10:07pm] reinier: (ah, and we did it before, and it proved itself)
[10:07pm] wonderchook: we would like to have a translation sprint in Haiti
[10:07pm] wonderchook: with an expert in leading translation sprints
[10:07pm] wonderchook: we need $2500 to be able to do this
[10:08pm] wonderchook: it is for travel for the experts and for food for the sprinters
[10:08pm] samlarsen1: wonderchook: that sounds well defined - good start
[10:08pm] wonderchook: does that sort of thing work?
[10:08pm] reinier: yup +1
[10:08pm] reinier: is there a good local partner organisation?
[10:09pm] reinier: or is it ad-hoc?
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[10:09pm] wonderchook: well, HOT works on the ground in Haiti and the Community OpenStreetMap Haiti is there
[10:10pm] wonderchook: and Haiti Communitere one of our partners can provide the facility
[10:10pm] reinier: Ah, a name
[10:10pm] reinier: use that name
[10:10pm] wonderchook: use which name
[10:10pm] wonderchook: ?
[10:10pm] reinier: you use their name, and they use yours (Haiti Communitere?)
[10:11pm] wonderchook: they provide housing for HOT sometimes and COSMHA uses their facilities for training sessions
[10:11pm] reinier: they gain credibility because they work with international consultants
[10:11pm] wonderchook: we support each others
[10:11pm] wonderchook: well Haiti Communitere isn't really Haitians
[10:11pm] wonderchook: COSMHA is
[10:11pm] reinier: HOT gains credibility because they work with a local partner
[10:12pm] reinier: local presence is a good start
[10:13pm] wonderchook: okay, well we've been supporting COSMHA for 2 years
[10:13pm] wonderchook: the part that is really missing is having the materials out of French
[10:13pm] wonderchook: anyway, the point I'm asking is do people from the fundraising group want to help with this
[10:13pm] wonderchook: and how does it effect our strategy?
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[10:14pm] reinier: you can (besides the HOT strategy) also have the local partner try to find funding in the local scene
[10:15pm] mkl: actually, reinier is right ... we are only working with COSMHA to boost our street cred
[10:15pm] reinier: you are not,, i know that, but it does work
[10:15pm] reinier: and they have contacts that you dont have
[10:16pm] wonderchook: I think Haiti is a bit different in that respect
[10:16pm] reinier: (i guess they go to the right Haitian parties)
[10:16pm] wonderchook: only 2% of all funding to Haiti goes to local partners
[10:16pm] wonderchook: the rest goes to internationals
[10:16pm] reinier: wow
[10:16pm] humberto_yances: There is a donors matrix (local, national or international)? Maybe each one can contribute to lists institutions.
[10:16pm] reinier: must be a big toyota dealership there
[10:17pm] wonderchook: anyway, my hope was just to do a kickstarter and beg people for money and give them sweet gifts in exchange.
[10:17pm] samlarsen1: surely we can also crowdfund this from the OSM 500K users and all their connections also
[10:17pm] wonderchook: similar to this idea: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1775485688/balloon-mapping-kits
[10:17pm] wonderchook: samlarsen1: exactly
[10:17pm] wonderchook: so I have multiple people that will help with "donor gifts" if we want to do it that way
[10:17pm] wonderchook: ala Kickstarter
[10:17pm] wonderchook: it is such a small amount of money
[10:17pm] reinier: In this case, when its about French, talk to French people. Alliance Francaise is totally for translating *anything* to french
[10:18pm] samlarsen1: who is going to set this up?
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[10:20pm] samlarsen1: does anyone have any problem with using Kickstarter? Any other platform suggestions?
[10:20pm] reinier: mikel what are your experiences with globalgiving?
[10:20pm] samlarsen1: Kickstarter takes 5%
[10:21pm] wonderchook: reinier: it needs to be translated into Creole, which is only spoken in Haiti
[10:21pm] wonderchook: samlarsen1: yes Kickstarter does take 5% but it does have legitimacy in the "start-up" crowd
[10:22pm] samlarsen1: true
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[10:23pm] wonderchook: I'm up to other suggestions. Also there are things that would need to be done either way. Like a video made. We can probably get film shot, but need editing help
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[10:26pm] samlarsen1: i have seen http://www.sparked.com/ work well, who also crowdsource tasks like video editing
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[10:27pm] wonderchook: cool
[10:28pm] wonderchook: okay so we went way over a hour
[10:28pm] wonderchook: and I have to go to bed
[10:28pm] wonderchook: should we do it again next week?
[10:29pm] samlarsen1: yup, see you then
[10:29pm] reinier: yes
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