Humanitarian OSM Team/Working groups/Technical/meeting 2013-10-07

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Meeting to discuss Tech topics on Monday 10th October 2013

IRC log:

18:01 dodobas: anyway... shell we begin ?
18:02 dodobas: biweekly HOT tech WG meeting
18:02 pierregiraud: is in but only for 15 minutes
18:02 dodobas: keeping the same format, do we have anyone who wants to start things off
18:02 dodobas: pierregiraud: please start :)
18:02 pierregiraud: ok
18:03 pierregiraud: so, I'm still re-adding features to the tasking manager v2
18:03 pierregiraud: the list of things that are still missing is here
18:03 pierregiraud:
18:04 pierregiraud: the other thing is that I would be happy to show it somewhere online
18:04 pierregiraud: dodobas: what's the status?
18:04 dodobas: blushes
18:04 dodobas: well, i have the postgresql/postgis running, and i got mapnik2...
18:04 pierregiraud: it looks like you're having troubles
18:05 dodobas: so i 'just' need to clone the repo and run it in production mode...
18:05 dodobas: pierregiraud: jsut the lack of time... sorry once again
18:05 pierregiraud: it's ok
18:06 dodobas: are there any other comments/issues you want to discuss ?
18:06 pierregiraud: not really
18:06 pierregiraud: once again, if someone wants to help, you're welcome
18:06 dodobas: so harry-wood, skorasaurus, ybon, pnorman , please continue
18:06 harry-wood: mentioned task manager in my diary entry here by the way:
18:07 harry-wood: and the user psychology of 'mark the task as done'
18:07 pierzen: Psycho: yes they confuse ended and split!
18:08 harry-wood: mkl is off having a baby now I think. So he's got me to help with LearnOSM translation stuff
18:08 harry-wood: which isn't supposed to be "technical" but somehow is :-)
18:08 skorasaurus: harry-wood: nice diary post.
18:08 dodobas: :)
18:09 : alexbarth [] entered the room.
18:09 skorasaurus: you're one of the few who do them on a consisent basis :)
18:09 : alexbarth left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection).
18:09 harry-wood: what else technical? erm� Frederik fixed that a with the hot-exports, that uploads were failing
18:10 pierregiraud: those user tests feedback are important for me
18:10 dodobas: harry-wood: what are common issues with LearnOSM ?
18:10 skorasaurus: yeah, regarding not marking a task done. +1
18:11 : almccon left the room (quit: Quit: Leaving.).
18:11 skorasaurus: the issue, even myself that I experienced, is that, I figure there's someone who's more experienced with the lay of the land, the nuances of imagery for a particular area, so there may be stuff to add.
18:11 harry-wood: issues with learnOSM? Looks like decide on and apply a 'naming convention' for images
18:11 harry-wood: is one issue
18:12 harry-wood: Need to merge in Maning's work on walking papers-> field papers changover
18:12 harry-wood: then maybe we need to make translations better aligned with the english version
18:13 harry-wood: I don't think we need to do anything technically clever with it
18:13 dodobas: k, if there are no more comments, skorasaurus you are up next
18:13 skorasaurus: sure. ybon and I have continued to work on the HDM carto rendering.
18:13 skorasaurus: mostly ybon :)
18:14 skorasaurus: it's now available as a layer on the main website, a huge step and win for us.
18:14 skorasaurus: for increased visibility.
18:14 skorasaurus: and awareness.
18:14 harry-wood: yeah. great work on that
18:14 harry-wood: Heard anything from cquest about the hosting of it? All ticking over nicely?
18:14 pierzen: openstreetmap.js for openlayers should be updated for this layer
18:15 skorasaurus: initially there were problems regarding the cache.
18:15 skorasaurus: but I believe ybon and pnorman helped figure it out ?
18:15 pierzen:
18:15 skorasaurus: pierzen: interesting. I did not know about that.
18:16 pierzen: this way, it is simple to add a osm layer.
18:16 skorasaurus: there's still a few issues. one that was raised was about styling it as SLD.
18:16 dodobas: do we have a clear information about who is hosting rendering services for HDM, or any other tech. infrastrucure details
18:16 harry-wood: I notice openstreetmap.js doesn't have mapquest on there either though, so maybe it's not the idea to add more to it
18:16 skorasaurus: I understand some NGOs don't use tilemill yet and still use ARCGIS and/or qgis for their normal workflow.
18:17 skorasaurus: and don't go the way of mapnik.
18:17 skorasaurus: I am obviously biased to one, ybon likely is as well ;)
18:17 pierzen: harry-wood: if you dont add it, then you need a custom tms function.
18:17 skorasaurus: regarding hosting, I though that you dodobas ?
18:18 harry-wood: I added to my 'many layers' example here:
18:18 dodobas: skorasaurus: not for HDM... so who is rendering the HDM ? OSM servers ? or ?
18:18 harry-wood: (inheriting from OpenLayers.Layer.OSM)
18:18 skorasaurus: dodobas: OSM-FR at the moment.
18:19 skorasaurus: but I don't know the long term status of it. ybon would know more.
18:19 skorasaurus: and has been the liaison.
18:19 dodobas: skorasaurus: and the tiles are distributed across the globe, like the OSM ?
18:19 skorasaurus: you mean the hosting or global coverage ?
18:20 : almccon [] entered the room.
18:20 dodobas: skorasaurus: well, OSM did create some proxy servers across the globe to lower the load on the London network infrastructure
18:20 dodobas: but I guess, every thing is hosted by osm-fr
18:20 skorasaurus: HDM tiles are worldwide, expect for the CGIAR coverage (elevation)
18:20 harry-wood: I don't think Firefishy added it into the OSM caching mechanisms. It's just served of the osm-fr server. Could be wrong.
18:21 : mkl left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 480 seconds).
18:21 skorasaurus: I think we're waiting for additional hardware for expanding the elevation coverage.
18:21 dodobas: ok, anything else or we move on to ybon ?
18:21 ybon: sorry, I've been pulled away, I'm back
18:21 harry-wood: There's no 'Tile Usage Policy' put forward bye cquest yet I assue
18:22 harry-wood: assume
18:22 harry-wood: Sooner or later the mobile apps will start hammering this server and he'll have to be ready to start blocking people
18:22 skorasaurus: don't forget too, there's also the HDM-JOSM mapping style as well. that's relatively stable at the moment, though there's still a few bugs fixes, especially with the design
18:23 dodobas: well, depending on the need... we can either move some of the load to the nwe HOT Server @ Hetzner... and i can 'ask' on the faculty in Zagreb
18:24 dodobas: 'ask' = i would just do it if we need to.. as we have a nice gigabit connection
18:24 skorasaurus: :)
18:24 : almccon1 [] entered the room.
18:25 dodobas: do ybon, so you want to add anything
18:25 ybon: so as for now, OSM-fr tiles server is very quiet
18:25 ybon: just finished to backlog :)
18:25 ybon: I can give you the contact for the server if needed, dodobas
18:26 ybon: but you can find this information somewhere in the wiki
18:26 ybon: let me find the page
18:26 harry-wood: Think it was this server:
18:26 ybon: yes it is
18:26 harry-wood: had a bit of CPU busy day today actually
18:27 ybon: here is more info about OSM-fr infrastructure
18:27 ybon:
18:28 ybon: Jocelyn is the main sysadmin, and currently in holidays for one month
18:28 : CanoeBerry [CanoeBerry@] entered the room.
18:28 ybon: others are cquest and sly
18:28 : almccon left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 480 seconds).
18:28 dodobas: cquest sly ?
18:28 ybon: but about setting up cache servers, you want to talk to Jocelyn
18:28 harry-wood: Even with fairly massive capacity, the 'standard' tile server has needed some clever anti-abuse mechanisms. Jon Burgess & Firefishy have got pretty smart with this over the years, so cquest will hopefully get them to suggest solutions if they scrapers start coming
18:28 ybon: other nicks of sysadmins ;)
18:28 ybon: we already had scrappers ;)
18:29 harry-wood: It's mainly mobile apps offering offline download which create issues apparently
18:30 harry-wood: MOBAC was one of these. Interestingly MOBAC is also an app the MapAction guys have come across and used during field work. So it's evilâ�¦ but also quite handy! :-)
18:31 dodobas: ok, everything works, yey :)
18:31 : pierregiraud left the room (quit: Quit: pierregiraud).
18:32 dodobas: pnorman, pierzen, do you want to discuss/share/comment on something?
18:33 harry-wood: dodabas What d'you think about adding Nepal to hot exports?
18:33 harry-wood: seems like something we should get Frederik to do
18:33 ybon: Does someone has some experience feedback about cartocss to SLD migration?
18:34 pierzen: dodobas: NO
18:34 harry-wood: ybon: what's SLD?
18:34 dodobas: harry-wood: well, with the current setup, it should be easy enough to add a new region...
18:34 pierzen: just no, problem with my keyboarad
18:34 dodobas: (not that i've wver done that)
18:35 skorasaurus: ybon: I was looking at the UNHCR's fork of cartocss last night.
18:35 skorasaurus: saw that they did some work of restyling it in qgis
18:35 dodobas: the system basically updates the region OSM files with OSM minutely diffs
18:35 dodobas: which are updated every 7-15min
18:35 ybon: harry-wood: stylesheet for qgis more or less
18:36 harry-wood: aha. Styled Layer Descriptor
18:36 ybon: skorasaurus: ah yeah, I've seen your comment, but not looked at their branch
18:36 dodobas: harry-wood: so either someone need to bug frederik... or I can try to set it up
18:36 ybon: yeah, certainly, I have not experience at all on this side
18:37 dodobas: however, we should get an executive decision, right ?
18:38 dodobas: if nobody else wants to comment, I can share what I've done
18:38 dodobas: ?
18:38 harry-wood: dodobas: Well we talked about adding regions in general terms because of the performance impacts. I guess theres a .poly file that osmosis uses. �but there's also a kml and a database record used by the web interface for showing regions on a map. Dunno if there's a way to change all region definitions in just one place.
18:39 harry-wood: All said and done� it's a bit tricky
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18:39 dodobas: harry-wood: probably you just need to use a big hammer :)
18:39 : ian29 [] entered the room.
18:40 harry-wood: probably :-)
18:40 : ian29 left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection).
18:41 : ian29 [] entered the room.
18:41 dodobas: so.., I've setup a satellite mailer on the ameila (new server) which uses gmail to send mail
18:42 dodobas: there are some minor annoyances... like you need to define virtual/alternate email addresses to be able to send as a differnt person
18:43 ybon: what is a satellite mailer?
18:43 pierzen: from satellite :)
18:43 dodobas: basically there is which is used for mails... but is you want to send emails as i.e. you need to add it to the hotmailer alternate email address list, and confirm that you are the owner
18:44 dodobas: in a 'normal' system, you could forge the From mail header to whatever you want
18:44 dodobas: satellite mailer... just forwards all mails to the proper mailing system
18:45 : mkl [] entered the room.
18:45 dodobas: so you don't need to configure/maintaing a mail service per server, one can just forward mail to a proper mailing server...
18:46 ybon: ah ok
18:46 dodobas: i got half-baked setup for tasking-manager2
18:47 dodobas: i got wonderchook to add to the DNS... so it will be available at that address
18:47 harry-wood: cool
18:48 dodobas: and... I've also created a TMS/WMS service for Hai Phong area
18:48 dodobas: basically mapserver + mapproxy
18:48 dodobas:
18:48 : xamanu [] entered the room.
18:49 dodobas: there were minor issues with imagery data... I did not know that QuickBird imagery has BRGN channels...
18:50 : om-SBTF left the room (quit: Quit: om-SBTF).
18:50 dodobas: Blue-Red-Green-NearInfrared
18:50 dodobas: but it's easy to convert it to RGB with gdal
18:51 : jgc [~jgc@] entered the room.
18:51 dodobas: there was no issues, other then one guy who 'mirrored' the imagery :)
18:51 dodobas: he created ~ 90000 requests during the day
18:52 ybon: ouch
18:53 dodobas: issues... well i need to contact Kristen to create a separate admin access for the Hetnzer management interface
18:54 dodobas: i need to get tasks2 working... then move tasks from the Amazon...
18:55 harry-wood: Good to see we're keeping you busy :-)
18:55 dodobas: set up SDS service... and bug/beg Schuyler to give me access to Mapmill... and see if we need/should host it on the ameila
18:56 dodobas: and in the future... set up maposmatic and fieldpapers...
18:57 dodobas: new Drupal7 website is in the works...
18:57 dodobas: but i did not hear anything new from clara, lately...
18:57 skorasaurus: ybon, any idea when global DEM will be available ?
18:58 ybon: skorasaurus: no
18:58 ybon: sadly
18:58 ybon: administrative and economic things
18:58 ybon: I'm not on this circle
18:58 skorasaurus: ah, okay.
18:59 ybon: I thought in August we were close to get the new SSD, but no
19:00 dodobas: if no one wants to add anything else, we can wrap it up... for this week
19:01 dodobas: next meeting will be on the 21st, this month
19:01 dodobas: thank you for comments and updates
19:01 dodobas: I'll post the log to the wiki
19:02 ybon: ok for me
19:02 ybon: will certainly point up SDL again next time ;)
19:03 ybon: SLD*
19:04 harry-wood: dodobas I can post the log via my format converter thingy
19:04 skorasaurus: sounds good.
19:05 dodobas: harry-wood: if you can add it to the wiki, that would be gr8