Humanitarian OSM Team/Working groups/Training/Feb 02 2012 Notes
Notes from IRC Meeting (GMT)
[2012-02-02 13:02:17] <wonderchook> anyway, MEETING TIME
[2012-02-02 13:02:32] <wonderchook> and now that i've looked up which one, it is time to talk about training=)
[2012-02-02 13:03:23] <wonderchook> so. Other than collecting/creating data. I think the other main thing HOT does is training
[2012-02-02 13:03:31] <Douglo> yes, training..
[2012-02-02 13:04:09] <wonderchook> so what does everyone think the aims of this working group should be?
[2012-02-02 13:05:59] <samlarsen1> hi all, i think the WG should look at both data collection training and down-the-line data extraction processing training
[2012-02-02 13:06:02] <rrbaker> Formalize and improve existing documentation while identifying, via community engagement, gaps and setting priorities for new training modules
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[2012-02-02 13:06:46] <Schuyler> (documentation)
[2012-02-02 13:06:50] <wonderchook> btw can someone log this, I'm going to claim "in Indonesia" as a reason where I can try but it might go badly
[2012-02-02 13:07:01] <wonderchook> okay, so I think we agree documentation is important
[2012-02-02 13:07:09] <wonderchook> but there is also a lot of demand for hands on training
[2012-02-02 13:13:32] <PierZen> Probably also a way other than Hot channel to communicate, ask questions.
[2012-02-02 13:14:00] <PierZen> A wiki page?
[2012-02-02 13:14:30] <wonderchook> so, I think maybe we should look at what other projects are doing for that
[2012-02-02 13:14:39] <wonderchook> and think about what our audience is
[2012-02-02 13:14:51] <wonderchook> we have people we want to train to deploy as HOT
[2012-02-02 13:14:55] <wonderchook> people to provide remote response support
[2012-02-02 13:10:18] <wonderchook> and those that live in areas prone or effected areas
[2012-02-02 13:10:45] <PierZen> and people needing help rapidly when we work in an affected area.
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[2012-02-02 13:11:35] <wonderchook> right
[2012-02-02 13:12:16] <wonderchook> so SBTF and CrisisCommons use skype a lot
[2012-02-02 13:12:24] <wonderchook> because you get all the messages when you login
[2012-02-02 13:12:31] <wonderchook> I think a lot of non-tech peopel aren't sure how to edit a wiki
[2012-02-02 13:12:40] <PierZen> Yes Skype should be good for that.
[2012-02-02 13:12:40] <wonderchook> but I'm not sure if there are better ways to be collaborating
[2012-02-02 13:12:56] <Schuyler> apparently partychat does that too
[2012-02-02 13:13:00] <wonderchook> though, getting people to join for Padang has been slow. but it is a non-emergency
[2012-02-02 13:13:17] <Schuyler> it's an XMPP based thing -- i.e. not proprietary
[2012-02-02 13:13:50] <PierZen> does partychat keeps history even if you where not connected?
[2012-02-02 13:14:02] <wonderchook> Schuyler: would it be easy for non-tech people to get on. Could they just use a regular chat client and do people use those things anymore?
[2012-02-02 13:14:12] <wonderchook> I also hate the idea of skype, but I'm not sure about barriers
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[2012-02-02 13:15:59] <PierZen> We could have our own chat with history. A simple php script with MySQL could do the job easily, I think.
[2012-02-02 13:16:20] <PierZen> If no public tool gives such service.
[2012-02-02 13:16:47] <wonderchook> well, so for me the issue is not having history to check. Just that all the previous messages appear, alert and you have to read them
[2012-02-02 13:16:52] <wonderchook> well or at least scroll through
[2012-02-02 13:17:13] <Douglo> i lost out abit but am back
[2012-02-02 13:18:18] <PierZen> Partychat says : Catch up on messages you miss while offline.
[2012-02-02 13:18:41] <Douglo> any conclusions on the aims of the training?
[2012-02-02 13:18:54] <wonderchook> Douglo: nope we got sidetracked
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[2012-02-02 13:20:56] <wonderchook> okay, so honestly can we get back to aims? I agree we need somewhere that people can ask questions and interact. Maybe we can test out partychat
[2012-02-02 13:20:57] <Douglo> about the training, i think it would depend on the context or the people the training is aimed at..
[2012-02-02 13:21:03] <Schuyler> http://partychapp.appspot.com/
[2012-02-02 13:21:15] <Schuyler> ^-- can be used with google talk, even
[2012-02-02 13:22:30] <wonderchook> so can someone make a partychat room and we'll test it before the next meeting?
[2012-02-02 13:22:45] <mdupont> is this something for HOT?
[2012-02-02 13:22:54] <Douglo> wonderchook: am ok with the chat, i could see other people's posts, only got connection issues here
[2012-02-02 13:23:47] <wonderchook> mdupont: the concern is that IRC doesn't work very well in the saving of messages. You can log, but it isnt in your face to answer questions/help people/etc
[2012-02-02 13:24:06] <mdupont> ok
[2012-02-02 13:24:16] <mdupont> there is a nice log bot for irc
[2012-02-02 13:25:12] <wonderchook> yeah, but peopel are not going to go check logs
[2012-02-02 13:25:18] <wonderchook> that is the inherent problem
[2012-02-02 13:25:36] <mdupont> https://twitter.com/#!/swigbot
[2012-02-02 13:25:42] <mdupont> the swigbot is just for that
[2012-02-02 13:25:51] <mdupont> from the semantic web interest group
[2012-02-02 13:26:02] <wonderchook> anyway, I digress. can we go back to the goals of group?
[2012-02-02 13:26:05] <mdupont> it integrates irc with a logger and blogger
[2012-02-02 13:26:16] <rrbaker> In regards to identifying our audience, I assume that's considering both technical capacity and need (context). Proposing we start to review documentation and identify those gaps considering capacity first so we can lay a foundation for specific needs.
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[2012-02-02 13:29:04] <wonderchook> so Rob. do we first need to figure out the audience? then figure out what is missing?
[2012-02-02 13:29:38] <Douglo> rrbaker: apart from the HOT manual, and the one iam compiling, i have not concetrated on any other documentations, can we have links to them for a check out?
[2012-02-02 13:30:05] <rrbaker> learnosm.org that Jeff and Kate started is another
[2012-02-02 13:30:26] <Douglo> links to other peoples' documentations
[2012-02-02 13:30:46] <rrbaker> Gotcha. Yes, we should start a wiki page to begin consolidating
[2012-02-02 13:32:25] <wonderchook> okay I made a page: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team/Working_groups/Training
[2012-02-02 13:32:25] <mdupont> well goals of the group
[2012-02-02 13:32:35] <wonderchook> but yes mdupont is right back to the goals
[2012-02-02 13:32:44] <wonderchook> clearly improve the training
[2012-02-02 13:32:47] <rrbaker> Kate: My feeling on it is addressing and structuring around technical capacity is just a shorter path. Looking at the audience as: long-time OSM hackers; new to OSM; new to computers, etc. Get that in place, then we could build in asking "why" they want to use it
[2012-02-02 13:32:54] <mdupont> i see that what we are doing in kosovo for example is in line with the humanitarian
[2012-02-02 13:33:12] <mdupont> and if you compare the maps from kosovo to bosnia or albania you will see a big difference
[2012-02-02 13:33:22] <mdupont> even google has responded
[2012-02-02 13:33:37] <mdupont> so you can see google is forced to invest in kosovo via the osm work
[2012-02-02 13:33:47] <mdupont> but in bosnia, it is not doing anything at all
[2012-02-02 13:34:00] <wonderchook> rrbaker: mean have continuous training and people come in at a specific point?
[2012-02-02 13:34:41] <wonderchook> mdupont: I'm missing how this relates to the goals
[2012-02-02 13:34:59] <mdupont> wonderchook, well helping people,
[2012-02-02 13:35:16] <mdupont> humanitarian work after a war
[2012-02-02 13:35:23] <mdupont> rebuilding the country
[2012-02-02 13:35:27] <wonderchook> mdupont: specific to the training group though
[2012-02-02 13:35:34] <wonderchook> not HOT overall
[2012-02-02 13:35:34] <mdupont> well flossk has been training people
[2012-02-02 13:35:41] <mdupont> and getting mappers
[2012-02-02 13:35:46] <mdupont> BesfortGuri, has been doing good work there
[2012-02-02 13:35:53] <mdupont> holding traning sessions
[2012-02-02 13:35:59] <mdupont> localizing docus
[2012-02-02 13:36:01] <wonderchook> okay, maybe I should explain why I called a meeting then
[2012-02-02 13:36:12] <rrbaker> If it's helpful, the design group (quiet though it is now) developed design personas: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Design_Mailing_List/OSM.org_Personas
[2012-02-02 13:36:16] <wonderchook> there are more people that want training than people that have the time to give it right now, or at least know who wants training
[2012-02-02 13:36:32] <wonderchook> so the hope was we could come up with a better way of doing that
[2012-02-02 13:36:40] <mdupont> yes
[2012-02-02 13:36:55] <wonderchook> if that isn't what other people want that is fine. but there are a ton of people who want to learn to map, but don't necessarily have the way forward
[2012-02-02 13:36:57] <mdupont> well my humble suggestion : videos?
[2012-02-02 13:37:19] <rrbaker> Second that. More screencasts (and audio for lo-band)
[2012-02-02 13:37:37] <mdupont> i think that training online should be based on videos
[2012-02-02 13:37:45] <BesfortGuri> wonderchook, the best think what is missing is the web page when you can put all thinks like (Video tutorials, books, and others )
[2012-02-02 13:37:50] <mdupont> coupled with Q&a sesssions
[2012-02-02 13:37:55] <Douglo> and also text as well
[2012-02-02 13:38:00] <BesfortGuri> I think learnosm.org
[2012-02-02 13:38:17] <mdupont> but you need to deliver something that can be downloaded and shipped on dvd to some place with no internet
[2012-02-02 13:38:25] <wonderchook> or almost no internet
[2012-02-02 13:38:35] <mdupont> yes
[2012-02-02 13:38:59] <mdupont> and ideally it would have a transscription
[2012-02-02 13:39:04] <Douglo> Then video would do in that case
[2012-02-02 13:39:05] <mdupont> like the ted talks has
[2012-02-02 13:39:13] <mdupont> subtitles
[2012-02-02 13:39:43] <wonderchook> okay so providing better training content is one goal, right?
[2012-02-02 13:39:49] <mdupont> yes
[2012-02-02 13:39:50] <rrbaker> definitely
[2012-02-02 13:39:53] <wonderchook> are there other goals?
[2012-02-02 13:40:00] <Douglo> i asked if we could have links to all the training material, and then base on that to improve
[2012-02-02 13:40:14] <rrbaker> sorting our docs into a curriculum of sorts
[2012-02-02 13:40:17] <wonderchook> okay so I made a wiki-page for the group http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team/Working_groups/Training
[2012-02-02 13:40:21] <wonderchook> we could start linking there
[2012-02-02 13:40:35] <Douglo> i agree
[2012-02-02 13:40:38] <wonderchook> and have a list by the next meeting
[2012-02-02 13:42:00] <Douglo> a list of the training documentation(s), when will the next meeting be?
[2012-02-02 13:42:32] <wonderchook> well, so first should we discuss if there are other goals
[2012-02-02 13:42:45] <wonderchook> for example there is demand for in person training for HOT responders
[2012-02-02 13:42:52] <wonderchook> is that a goal? is there anything else we should do?
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[2012-02-02 13:43:34] <BesfortGuri> wonderchook, maybe is a good part to ask who is interested to work with training materials for HOT ?
[2012-02-02 13:44:20] <rrbaker> This is training to become a HOT responder or requests for training from HOT responders?
[2012-02-02 13:44:28] <wonderchook> to become HOT responders
[2012-02-02 13:44:40] <wonderchook> well, I guess the training would be from HOT responders=)
[2012-02-02 13:45:18] <rrbaker> ok :)
[2012-02-02 13:45:26] <wonderchook> so there are people who just want to get help to digitize online
[2012-02-02 13:45:33] <wonderchook> which would be a simple module
[2012-02-02 13:45:39] <wonderchook> but then there are people who would like to learn to go into the field
[2012-02-02 13:46:04] <Douglo> HOT responders and the SBMT is there a difference?
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[2012-02-02 13:46:56] <Douglo> which countries would those people(responders) be/come from?
[2012-02-02 13:47:04] <robertosn> Hi
[2012-02-02 13:47:09] <wonderchook> Douglo: can you define SBMT?
[2012-02-02 13:47:25] <PierZen> the best is around the world. You can respond anytime when crisis.
[2012-02-02 13:47:44] <Douglo> wonderchook: Standby Mapping Team(s)
[2012-02-02 13:48:02] <robertosn> SBTF from Crisi mappers?
[2012-02-02 13:48:03] <wonderchook> Douglo: you mean SBTF?
[2012-02-02 13:48:59] <Douglo> wonderchook: the group that Mikel mentioned on activation of Libyan Health facilities
[2012-02-02 13:49:10] <wonderchook> yeah, Stand By Task Force
[2012-02-02 13:49:17] <wonderchook> that is a separate group than HOT
[2012-02-02 13:49:18] <PierZen> sbtf then.
[2012-02-02 13:49:23] <wonderchook> they are one of the groups that would like training
[2012-02-02 13:49:27] <wonderchook> there are others
[2012-02-02 13:50:10] <Douglo> hah, ok, thanks. so wouldn't it be duplicating to create HOT responders?
[2012-02-02 13:50:22] <robertosn> SBTF are Crisi mappers people separate from OSM or HOTç
[2012-02-02 13:50:31] <robertosn> PierZen this is robert from tunis
[2012-02-02 13:50:35] <wonderchook> there is overlap, but we aren't the same groups
[2012-02-02 13:50:42] <rrbaker> I would imagine there are stricter requirements for HOT — are those drafted somewhere?
[2012-02-02 13:50:51] <rrbaker> Maybe help set priorities for what they might need
[2012-02-02 13:51:03] <PierZen> roberosn : easy to recognize your nicknames.
[2012-02-02 13:51:17] <wonderchook> rrbaker: there aren't stricter requirements to respond remotely
[2012-02-02 13:51:27] <wonderchook> the training of the SBTF would be to help with remote activations
[2012-02-02 13:51:31] <robertosn> http://blog.standbytaskforce.com/double-activation-libya-colombia/
[2012-02-02 13:51:37] <robertosn> as an example
[2012-02-02 13:51:50] <wonderchook> as for on the ground, I drafted some policies, for human resources, but they are far from complete
[2012-02-02 13:53:57] <Douglo> so after gathering the training materials together(on the #osm wiki, etc), it should be shared with mapping teams and communities, right?
[2012-02-02 13:54:45] <wonderchook> well not right away, I think the idea is coming up with a better curriculum
[2012-02-02 13:54:53] <wonderchook> so we are almost at a hour
[2012-02-02 13:55:02] <wonderchook> I would suggest we meet again next week?
[2012-02-02 13:55:07] <wonderchook> I think we probably don't need weekly meetings
[2012-02-02 13:55:09] <Douglo> btw, how long is this meet? and will there be a 2nd one?
[2012-02-02 13:55:18] <wonderchook> but to start it will give us momentum
[2012-02-02 13:58:41] <wonderchook> okay, so talk to you guys next week at the same time?
[2012-02-02 13:58:54] <wonderchook> lets add materials here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team/Working_groups/Training
[2012-02-02 13:58:57] <wonderchook> for the next meeting
[2012-02-02 13:59:13] <wonderchook> sorry to cut things short, but there is a fundraising working group meeting in 2 minutes
[2012-02-02 13:59:55] =-= larryGone is now known as larryone
[2012-02-02 14:00:15] <Douglo> ok, till next time
[2012-02-02 14:00:42] <wonderchook> okay new topic, new meeting. FUNDRAISING!
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[2012-02-02 14:01:17] <rrbaker> Two people are going to look into partychat, which sounds like it should cost 4.95 a minute. Who wants that?
[2012-02-02 14:01:23] <rrbaker> I'm going to hack on this here wiki page
[2012-02-02 14:01:39] <wonderchook> awesome rrbaker