Indoor OSM user meeting at FOSSGIS Konferenz 2024

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https://pretalx.com/fossgis2024/talk/QTMLRT/, notes translated from German

Meeting Notes

Introduction of attendees and their work

  • Volker (KDE)
    • working on Indoor maps and routing of train stations, airports event venues etc for a free software travel assistance app.
  • Niklas, Raik (Institut für Innovations- und Informationsmanagement)
    • interested in legal questions after having failed to obtain permission for using escape plans at the University of Brandenburg, rejected due to fears of aiding amok shooters
  • Rainer
    • interesting in indoor mapping QA/tooling
  • Hagen (Virtual Location)
    • working on 3D visualization using Unity, e.g. for museum guides
  • Roland (MENZ)
    • worked on pedestrian routing through buildings as part of public transport routing, including considering realtime elevator states
    • involved in mapping the city of Dortmund for accessible pedestrian routing for a 100k participant event (Kirchentag)
  • Christoph (DB InfraGo)
    • OSM liason of Deutsche Bahn
    • working on accessible routing in public transport as per regulatory requirements
  • Tobias (OSM2World)
    • involved in SIT tagging schema development
    • working on OSM2World seamless indoor/outdoor 3D rendering
  • Josias (HBT)
    • Indoor mapping/routing for Hamburg's public transport operator

Discussion

Thin-wall vs Thick-wall model

  • there is no general consensus, both have their advantages and disadvantages

Legal situation

  • the general assumption is that mapping any publicly accessible areas/rooms are fine, even without explicit approval
  • allowed on Deutsche Bahn stations, but shops/restaurants/etc in stations are not public areas
  • applicability of copyright restrictions to escape plans is unclear
  • providing accessibility information for public transport is required by EU regulation
  • architecture copyright is likely irrelevant due to the limited level of detail
  • where is the limit between taking an individual fact such as opening hours of a shop from a website and copying a (protected) database work (e.g. all opening hours of a brand/chain)?
  • can a shopping mall map from their website be used? probably not directly, on the other hand similar situation on the ground as with escape plans

Mapping

  • GPS is often not enough even in outdoor-ish areas of train stations
  • Antoine has a complex mapping rig, used to map stations in France
  • Measurement tape/laser range finder work, even counting steps is a valid way for a first approximation
  • LIDAR/3D Scan mit iPhone 14: about 5m range indoors, doesn't work well without walls on the outside, using "3D Scanner App"

Tagging questions

  • Hamburg-specific public transport platform access restrictions vs. router interpretation
    • access=customer + customer=hvv vs. access=passenger
    • actual rules cannot be easily represented by OSM access tagging
  • Should we map areas or ways for routing?
    • routers have to deal with both anyway
    • free floating nodes (e.g. stairs arriving in the middle of a platform) are challenging for routers without explicit level tags
  • Does repeat_on on elevators mean the elevator also stops on all those levels, or only that the elevator passes through those levels?
    • Avoid ambiguity by using more detailed/explicit tagging
  • How do we map inclined areas (e.g. western end of the southern concourse of Hamburg central station)?
    • Needs a center line defining the incline, similar to Jan's stairs proposal
    • Where's the difference between highway=ramp and inclined areas/corridors?
  • How do we tag long foldable doors? Doors as ways?
  • How do we motivate mappers to add all those details?
    • Displaying this in a renderer helps
  • How do we map turnstiles and the conditions under which you can cross them?

Editors

  • Which editors are used for indoor mapping?
    • mostly JOSM, using the built-in level selector and custom filters for level 0

Level names

How are levels/level names presented/selectable in the renderer?

  • Level names needed indoor=level + level:ref tagging. Difficult for adjacent/interleaving buildings.
    • For complex cases we might need building relations

Train stations

  • What is part of a train station? E.g. regarding adjacent bus or tram stops, some of which might be considered the same stop, some might not
    • Train station relations?
    • IFOPT identifier?
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