Proposal talk:Tactile paving

Discuss Proposed features/Tactile paving here

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what to tag

What objects do you want to tag and how? There is some tactile paving in front of the Basel SBB -train station. Do you intend to map how the lines/... go or just that such lines are present? --MarcusWolschon 13:23, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

I am afraid the resolution OSM and GPS recievers reach is not good enough to have the exact shape of the marked way, e.g. there is a long straight tactile paving parallel to the street at bus stops, but the little part where it turns towards the bus entry position is to short to be mapped (approx. 60 cm).

So the tactile_paving=yes will be on a node for bus stops.

But if you have a market place and a marked footway is paved across, then I recommend to use tactile_paving on a highway=footway object that might not even have been mapped before. --Lulu-Ann 13:35, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Here the later is the case. It's long lines along the platforms, across the streets,... . Are you aware of different types or meanings of such pavement? Have you contacted an organisations that may provide more detailed information on how they are interpreted by the blind? --MarcusWolschon 09:06, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Yes, there are recommendations how to build, example Blindenleitsystem auf Nullbarriere.de. As it does not seem to make sense to render lines for tactile paving on lines for footways on visual maps, we do not need to map the ends of the lines that turn towards the bus entry. As tactile maps for the blind tend to have information overflow, a node for "tactile paving is available" is enough. Maybe a description in the local language can be added, e.g. "Bus Platform Route 66 Direction City Center". Anyways, the GPS is not accurate enough to determine a line on a footway. Lulu-Ann

Here, most streets that have a pavement have tactile paving along their entire length with ridges on straight sections and dimples at junctions, crossings, bus stops etc... I can take some photos to show what I mean if that helps... Would it be useful to indicate these multiple types? dkt 15:09, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Photos would be helpful --Lulu-Ann 15:28, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

irritating

The word "irritating" seems like a poor choice. It sounds imprecise, unprofessional, and highly subjective (poor verifiability) But maybe I'm missing something. Is "irritating" some kind of official classification for tactile paving?? -- Harry Wood 23:05, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

If you don't like the term, how would you call a guiding line that leads you to run with your head agains the low contrete unter a strairset? How would you call an area that is marked for blind people to get attention that is 2 meters next to the place where it should be, so you run agains a signpost? What is a better term for a line that leads staight on to a wall instead to the footway next to it? Which word would you prefer, if "dangerous" is to hard? Unfortunately there are so many different ways to cause problems with this, that there is no cool classification yet. --Lulu-Ann 11:06, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't know really. "incorrect" or "unsafe" would be better than "irritating". Are there government standards for these things? Maybe "non_compliant"? I dont know, but please not "irritating" -- Harry Wood 10:46, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

There are recommendations how to use it in Germany. I don't know about other countries. "Unsafe" is OK to me, but there are still cases where the paving is safe but wrong, so something like "irritating" or "confusing" ist needed. --Lulu-Ann 00:38, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Well "incorrect" would be my recommendation then. We need to change it. I know voting is already in progress/finished, but really the word "irritating" has to go, otherwise this is well on track to be another tag voting debacle.

So I'll just quietly change it now. If anyone feels that such a change is misrepresenting what they voted on, then we might have a problem, but hopefully nobody will mind this small change.

Note that this is not to say that I support this tag, or even that I think "incorrect" is a good value... just that I know "irritating" is a very bad value.

-- Harry Wood 14:22, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

OK with me. --Lulu-Ann 10:25, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Whatever you change it to, make sure that it is changed everywhere. There are still some left [1] and I'm not sure whether the search gets all of them. --Tordanik 13:32, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Aha. yes didn't realise it has spread onto other pages. I've swapped a few of those. Any more need changing? -- Harry Wood 08:58, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Apparently you got all of them. --Tordanik 14:32, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Did you search here? Due to changes in Query-to-map this Template does not work anymore. You can use Template:Osm-query2. Please replace or delete this use of Osm-query template. ^{[ dead link ]} --Lulu-Ann 17:39, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

value: incomplete needed?

What's the matter with "incomplete" as value for this tag? The crossing in front of my home has tactile paving at three of the four edges - don't ask me, why. Two streets away street and footway switch to the old paving, there the one side, towards the new paved area has tactile paving, the other side has not. I assume, this may appear in other cases as well, and I don't find a value here fitting to that, as long as tactile:paving is tagged to street-crossing-points only.

It could be tagged on the level of footways itself, having four edge-nodes at a simple street crossing with four footways aside, but that's not the case at the moment. So "incomplete" would be a possible solution, perhaps described in more detail by some tags from the Proposed features/DisabilityDescription -Feature.

If needed, I will provide some fotos of the described crossings. -- Jongleur March 23rd, 2010

question for some kind of curb

At this picture, i often see this kind of curbs at bus and tram stop. Its relief (like rombus, diamond) is never used at plates on footways, only at the curbs. I'm not sure, if it is for tactile paving, i assume, its only for reduce slippery. Should we tag it as tactile paving? --Okilimu 10:30, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Each curb can be detected with a white cane if at least 3cm high, but it is not tagged as tactile paving for a bus stop. A bus stop or a railway platform is only tactile_paving=yes, if the line is a guiding line where you are supposed to walk on. As you better do not walk on the curb, this is not safe. Lulu-Ann

fotos of tactile field

Perhaps its useful to show a detailed field of plates at the main page, this kind is for attention for the blind. --Okilimu 10:30, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Question about barrier

At the next picture, there is a tram line at a hospital entrance place. One side of the tram line is separated to the footway with a handrail, i tagged it with barrier=fence and handrail:right=yes (in way direction of the fence-way), is it correct? --Okilimu 10:30, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

I don't know. Please ask on the barrier pages. Lulu-Ann

question about tagging for possible dangerous way

At the other side, the footway has no barrier to the tram line and there is only a small metal line at the ground (for rain drain below). The metal line is less than 2cm in different height from left and right ground about.

Is this a dangerous zone, because a blind person could cross the way and will be stopped by the handrail at the other side of the tram line (it drives very slow there)?--Okilimu 10:30, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I think this is indeed dangerous. But tram lines are dangerous anyway (this is implied), so no special danger tagging is neccessary. Lulu-Ann

Should the metal line be tagged or is it too small and cannot be identified by a blind?

--Okilimu 10:30, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Do not tag items as tactile paving, that are there by fortune and might be used fororientation. Only tag dedicated signs on the ground for the blind (E.g such an object does not have the needed contrast to serve as orientation for the poor sighted, too!) Lulu-Ann

tactile paving in a forest

Here is an image how to realize tactile paving in a forest.

Native speakers, how would you call this? --Lulu-Ann 15:48, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Guideway I think would be the most suitable term. Possibly also applicable to "Japanese zebra crossing with tactile paving" in your examples --Pobice 21:50, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, then I suggest to use tactile_paving=guideway for this. Note, that these hiking routes shall also be mapped as a relation.

Create a relation with the following attributes:

• name=*
• network=*
• route=foot
• blind=yes
• osmc:symbol=black:white::Bl:black
• blind:desc:en=Hikingtrail for blind persons, <Name or City>
• blind:desy:<local language>=Hikingtrail for blind persons, <Name or City> in local language
• tactile_paving=guideway

--Lulu-Ann 13:23, 3 December 2010 (UTC)