Talk:Key:fuel
Request to add three octane types
In my recent travels in the Western US, I have encountered gasoline sold at stations with octane ratings of 86, 88 and 90.
I tried to add these to the list, but for the life of me, I cannot figure out how to edit the Fuel type template that is embedded into the page. If some kind soul can addd the following to the page, I would greatly appreciate it:
Octane 86 fuel:octane_86=yes
Octane 88 fuel:octane_88=yes
Octane 90 fuel:octane_90=yes
Kevinp2 (talk) 20:30, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
- After writing the above, I poked around and added an Item for Octane 86 using Octane 87 as a model. However, it still doesn't show up in the main list. Kevinp2 (talk) 21:03, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
- OK, I finally figured this out. Added an Item as above made no difference. Instead, I had to edit the template page Template:Fuel_types Kevinp2 (talk) 15:49, 18 October 2022 (UTC)
Fuel types
The following proposal adds descriptions and links to wikipedia. Ambiguities like E10 are eliminated. The fuel types are arranged into groups.
-- Willi2006 12:51, 22 November 2011 (UTC)
| Group | Fuel type | Tagging | Proposed tagging | Norm | Description |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Diesel | Diesel | fuel:diesel=yes | = | Derived from petroleum: petrodiesel. | |
| GTL diesel | fuel:GTL_diesel=yes | = | Derived from gas: gas to liquid (GTL). | ||
| HGV diesel | fuel:HGV_diesel=yes | depreciate | Remark: "High output pumps with a bigger nozzle that won't fit a motorcar tank".
This doesn't describe the fuel type but the nozzle size. May be motorcar=no or hgv=yes would do it.
| ||
| Bio diesel | fuel:biodiesel=yes | = | Derived from biomass. | ||
| Taxfree diesel | fuel:taxfree_diesel=yes | Sold at most gas stations in Norway, ("Avgiftsfri diesel", green colored petrodiesel). Legally used by construction machinery, boats, tractors and other engines not meant for road traffic (fuel:untaxed_diesel could be an alternative). | |||
| Gasoline | Gasoline 91 | fuel:octane_91=yes | fuel:gasoline_91=yes | Petroleum-derived liquid. Octane rating 91. Optional up to 5% Ethanol. | |
| Gasoline 95 | fuel:octane_95=yes | fuel:gasoline_95=yes | Petroleum-derived liquid. Octane rating 95. Optional up to 5% Ethanol. | ||
| Gasoline 98 | fuel:octane_98=yes | fuel:gasoline_98=yes | Petroleum-derived liquid. Octane rating 98. Optional up to 5% Ethanol. | ||
| Gasoline 100 | fuel:octane_100=yes | fuel:gasoline_100=yes | Petroleum-derived liquid. Octane rating 100. Optional up to 5% Ethanol. | ||
| Mixture of Two-stroke oil and gasoline | Mixture 1:25 | fuel:1_25=yes | = | 1 part two-stroke oil mixed with 25 parts gasoline. | |
| Mixture 1:50 | fuel:1_50=yes | = | 1 part two-stroke oil mixed with 50 parts gasoline. | ||
| Gasohol
(ethanol fuel mixtures) |
E10 | fuel:e10=yes | depreciate | DIN 51625 | |
| Gasohol 91 | fuel:gasohol_91=yes | 10% ethanol mixed with 90% gasoline. Octane rating 91. | |||
| Gasohol 95 | fuel:gasohol_95=yes | 10% ethanol mixed with 90% gasoline. Octane rating 95. | |||
| E20 | fuel:e20=yes | 20% ethanol mixed with 80% gasoline. Octane rating 95 or higher. | |||
| E85 | fuel:e85=yes | = | 85% ethanol mixed with 15% gasoline. Octane rating 100 or higher. | ||
| ED95 | fuel:ed95=yes | 95% ethanol mixed with the addition of ignition improver, lubricant and corrosion protection. Octane rating ? or higher. Is this the same as Biodiesel? http://www.sekab.com/biofuel/ed95/ | |||
| Methanol | fuel:methanol=yes | = | Derived from biomass, coal, natural gas. | ||
| Gas | LPG ( liquefied petroleum gas) | fuel:lpg=yes | A mixture of liquid gases, mainly butane and propane. Also called Autogas, GPL, LP Gas or liquid propane gas. | ||
| CNG ( compressed natural gas) | fuel:cng=yes
fuel:ngv=yes |
Natural gas, mainly methane, stored at high pressure, over 200 bar. Gas stations also marked with NGV (natural gas vehicle).
de:Erdgas, pt-br:GNV | |||
| Remark: More information needed. | Liquid Hydrogen | fuel:LH2=yes | Liquid H2. | ||
| SVO | fuel:svo=yes | ||||
| Biogas | fuel:biogas=yes | "SunGas(r)" |
Electric Vehicle Charging Facility see amenity=ev_charging.
Fuel Type CNG
There are different types of CNG out, should we differ them?
| Group | Fuel type | Tagging | Proposed tagging | Norm | Description |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Gas | |||||
| CNG Low Caloric ( compressed natural gas) | fuel:cng-L=yes
fuel:ngv=yes |
DIN 51624 | Natural gas, mainly methane, stored at high pressure, over 200 bar. L=Low Caloric: 80,1 - 87,0 % methan. Gas stations also marked with NGV (natural gas vehicle).
de:Erdgas L, L-Gas | ||
| CNG High Caloric ( compressed natural gas) | fuel:cng-H=yes
fuel:ngv=yes |
DIN 51624 | Natural gas, mainly methane, stored at high pressure, over 200 bar. H=High Caloric: 87,0-98,9 % methan. Gas stations also marked with NGV (natural gas vehicle).
de:Erdgas H, H-Gas | ||
| H2CNG ( CNG with hydrogen) | fuel:h2cng_xx%=yes
fuel:ngv=yes |
Natural gas, mainly methane with 4-50% hydrogen, stored at high pressure, over 200 bar. Also known as HCNG. | |||
| LNG ( liquefied natural gas) | fuel:lng=yes
fuel:lngv=yes |
liquefied natural gas, mainly methane, stored at cryonic temperature (-164 - 161 °C). Liquefied Natural Gas in trucks and cars.
de:Flüssigerdgas |
I know only this 4 types of CNG as fuel, maybe there are more.
I don't have found relevant informations about the different mixing proportions of H2CNG. I propose, we should use the percentage of hydrogen in the tag if known. If unknown, we schould use xx%.
--René Falk 00:11, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
Instead of changing the existing key-value combination I suggest to add new tags. This would not break existing applications. Examples: fuel:cng-L=yes fuel:cng:L=yes or fuel:cng-L=yes fuel:cng:type=L.
I have a car that uses CNG and I'm happy about every station offering CNG. I don't care whether it is H or L variant and I don't know. Is there any station where I could choose between different sorts of CNG? I have never seen this. I guess the information about the CNG variant is mainly additional specification of the only available one.
-- Bomm 21:41, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
Hi Bomm, you know that L-Gas means a about 10-15% lower range than H-Gas for your car? This information is very helpful for planning long-distance trips, especially in areas with less cng gas stations.
Your new tags breaks the existing tag system of the fuel key and we do not tag for applications.
--René Falk (talk) 14:56, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
which Octane rating system ?
The proposed chart looks good, but it leaves me somewhat confused as to which octane system the numbers represent (RON, MON or AKI). Most US fuel stations (at or near sea level) dispense an ethanol blend with a pump rating of 87, 89 and 91. Based on the octane wikipedia page, those numbers appear to be AKI. A few stations also dispense intermediate grades of 88 and 90 AKI.
Generally all stations dispense the basic 3 grades (with local variations based on laws or altitude). A smaller number of stations (possibly 20%) also dispense ultra-low sulfur diesel. Beyond that, a smaller group (1-5%) may also dispense an off-road grade diesel (i.e. no road taxes, for farm/industrial use) which may contain an indicator dye.
Issues that need to be addressed...
1. What octane rating system are the numbers being exposed here ?
2. There needs to be at least one other ethanol choice, for the mid-grade sold in the US (nominally 89 AKI, 10% ethanol).
3. There needs to be a choice for off-road diesel (which may be called farm diesel in some locations).
more information on octane here ... Octane rating
--RayOnTheFarm 17:18, 23 September 2012 (BST)
The octane system for gasoline here is RON. Take a look to Gasoline+Octane rating --René Falk 11:36, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
SVO?
> SVO fuel:svo=yes
I've no idea where this tag comes from. But in my region, there is SVO = Stromversorgung Osthannover, which is a regional supplier for electricity and natural gas. They also offer hi-caloric compressed natural gas (CNG) for vehicles at at least two stations: [1]. So, if SVO means this SVO then one should use the CNG tag rather than SVO. Andreas --Hundehalter 18:59, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
[1] http://erdgasfahrzeuge.svo.de/content.aspx?id=18
Heating oil
In France (at least) there is pumps that deliver eating oil (Fioul in french). I propose the key fuel:heating_oil. Any disagreement ?
AdBlue
AdBlue is one of the many trademarks for this product. The correct and brand-agnostic term is DEF: Diesel Exhaust Fluid. I suggest to use fuel:DEF=* i.s.o. fuel:AdBlue=*. There are currently approx. 130 instances where this tag is used, so it's still feasible to fix it. See http://www.discoverdef.com/ and Diesel exhaust fluid. The Talk section of the wiki page shows quite a bit of commotion about references to specific brands, so we should use neutral names where possible. Gilbert54 08:52, 2 September 2013 (UTC) On second thought it might be good to use yes/no for the value if the mapper can't determine the exact brand and actually put in the brand name if it is known. While AdBlue is probably one of the best known products, there are dozens of other brands on the market:
Gilbert54 19:41, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
Diesel S10 and Diesel Ativada S10 and Octane numbers in Brazil
In Brazil, in addition to Diesel (Comum) and Biodiesel, some fuel stations also supply Diesel Podium S10 (Petrobras), Diesel Ativada S10, Diesel Extra Ativada S10 and Diesel Comum S10. Petrobras informs about this on the following page.
Also Octane numbers used are 87 (Comum and Ativada), 91 (Premium), and 95 (Podium). Generally the product name (Comum/Ativada/Premium) are marked on the pumps, and not the octane number. Some pumps have a small sticker with R+M/2 and a value, but this sticker is very uncommon and almost never readable from the vehicle. --Skippern (talk) 16:14, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
Maybe a bit too specific?
I think this is a bit too specific. Do I really need to know the exact chemical composition to tag a fuel station??? Why not just tagging as "gasoline", and then add a subtype if wished? => I'm just struggling because a want to tag a fuel station for boats in a harbor, which offers gasoline, but not diesel. This information is important. We do not really care which type of gasoline. So I would prefer having just a tag "fuel:gasoline=yes". O.k. I will also tag "fuel:diesel=no", but it looks a bit strange to me to tag a fuel station and then only say what it does NOT have ... --Nounours77 (talk) 20:32, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
Marine fuel
I have used fuel:mgo=* and/or fuel:mdo=* (Marine Gas Oil and Marine Diesel Oil) for fuel stations offering marine fuel. MDO is technically normal diesel, though in some countries they are with different additives due to tax regulations etc. On this scope also is possible to add other marine fuels such as fuel:hfo=* though I haven't tagged any places specifically delivering this. --Skippern (talk) 20:14, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
Hydrogen variations
The current scheme only specifies a tag for "Liquid hydrogen at high pressure" . I am uncertain if there are different kinds of Fuel Hydrogen and/or fueling systems/nozzles at stations around the world, as "Hydrogen fuel stations" have only recently started to appear in my area, and the one I have visited in person doesn't signpost the form of the hydrogen coming out of their pump, just that it is Hydrogen for cars and a price per 0.1 kg .
The local station I am aware of has a nozzle handle that resembles those for gasoline, and the driver is supposed to open a fuel lid on their car and hook it up almost like when refilling a gasoline car. It is definitely different from the robotic system previously showcased in PR videos by some manufacturers. The station is a prefabricated design by "H2 Logic".
For now, I will use the existing tag for the station, though I am unsure if this is high pressure liquid hydrogen at ambient temperature, cryogenic liquid hydrogen at ambient pressure or just pressurized gaseous hydrogen.
Fuel:electricity=yes removed
I removed fuel:electricity=yes since the amenity=charging_station proposal can be considered in use. I also removed the example tagging for charging_station since it was incomplete and used the undocumented system=* Key.--Jojo4u (talk) 12:23, 1 October 2016 (UTC)
RON versus AKI
I've added a section noting that, in the United States, octane tags are expressed in AKI, not RON. It is much more likely that about premium fuel has been identified at about a thousand gas stations than at about 300, and it is unlikely that substandard fuel has been identified at 1,200 gas stations:
| Tag | Prevalence in OSM (July 2019) | Grade if interpreted as AKI | Grade if interpreted as RON |
|---|---|---|---|
| fuel:octane_85=* | 42 | Subregular/substandard in 3 states Regular in 4 states |
N/A |
| fuel:octane_86=* | 4 | Subregular/economy in 4 states Regular in 6 states |
N/A |
| fuel:octane_87=* | 700 | Regular in 33 states Mid-grade in 1 state |
N/A |
| fuel:octane_88=* | 8 | Regular in 30 states Mid-grade in 4 states |
N/A |
| fuel:octane_89=* | 420 | Regular in 3 states Mid-grade in 31 states |
N/A |
| fuel:octane_90=* | 4 | Regular in 3 states Mid-grade in 31 states Premium in 1 state |
N/A |
| fuel:octane_91=* | 655 | Regular in 2 states Mid-grade in 16 states Premium in 17 states |
Regular in ≈33 states Mid-grade in ≈1 state |
| fuel:octane_92=* | 198 | Regular in 2 states Mid-grade in 13 states Premium in 20 states |
Regular in ≈33 states Mid-grade in ≈1 state |
| fuel:octane_93=* | 198 | Regular in 2 states Premium in 33 states |
?
|
| fuel:octane_94=* | 3 | Regular in 2 states Premium in 33 states |
?
|
| fuel:octane_95=* | 286 | High-octane | ?
|
| fuel:octane_96=* | 0 | High-octane | ?
|
| fuel:octane_97=* | 6 | High-octane | Regular in ≈2 states Mid-grade in ≈13 states Premium in ≈20 states |
| fuel:octane_98=* | 246 | High-octane | ?
|
| fuel:octane_99=* | 0 | High-octane | ?
|
| fuel:octane_100=* | 25 | High-octane | Regular in 2 states Premium in 33 states |
This is also likely the case in Canada, but I'm less familiar with the situation there. Transitioning American usage to the international tagging convention would introduce inaccuracies or uncertainties. Meanwhile, replacing octane tags with grades like regular and premium would introduce inconsistencies between states or, in Texas, between each metropolitan area. I think that would be worse than the current situation.
If any data consumer does need to compare the prevalence of certain octane ratings across the globe, I'd suggest that the tags be treated differently in one country versus another, with a lookup table and spatial queries. If this is impractical, maybe we could introduce aki tags to make the distinction clear, just as we mark imperial/customary units explicitly.
– Minh Nguyễn 💬 22:41, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
AdBlue in different containments
Over at Talk:Tag:amenity=fuel#indication_for_fuel:adblue_in_canisters.2Fpetrol_pumps I asked if there already is tagging for an indication for fuel:adblue if the AdBlue is sold in canisters (usually for motorcars) or petrol pumps (usually for hgv and vans). I did not get any reply forover 4 months. Asking anybody who reads this: Is there already a tagging for this is place? If not my suggestion would be
- fuel:adblue=canister (for AdBlue sold in canisters)
- fuel:adblue=filling_pump (for AdBlue sold per liter using petrol pumps)
- fuel:adblue=canister;filling_pump (for AdBlue sold in canisters as well as per liter using petrol pumps)
--TBKMrt (talk) 13:53, 24 August 2019 (UTC)
Hydrogen variants
I'm just about to add Australia's first public hydrogen station to the map, I note there are three types: LH2 (Liquid H2), H35 and H70 (gaseous H2 at 35/70 MPa). What's standard? I've seen 70 MPa used so I'm guessing H70 is what new hydrogen stations would be? -- Chuq (talk) 10:41, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
- Follow-up - discussion on other forums/sites I've found that H35/H70 (gaseous hydrogen) is the standard at modern hydrogen stations, with only H70 at the newest ones. The other weird thing I've found is that Overpass Turbo is case sensitive and so searches for h70 and H70 were showing different results, however I think all the uppercase ones have now been fixed. -- Chuq (talk) 01:26, 17 April 2021 (UTC)
Is tagging of fuel: assumed to be exhaustive?
For example amenity=fuel + fuel:octane_80=yes - is it implying that it is sole type of fuel available? It seems implied but not stated outright. See https://github.com/osmlab/name-suggestion-index/pull/5005 https://github.com/streetcomplete/StreetComplete/issues/2708 where there is ongoing attempt to interpret tagging correctly Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 20:19, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
- In general, *=only should be used for this. ---- Kovposch (talk) 05:51, 17 April 2021 (UTC)
- But currently it appears to be neither done nor recommended - and here I am asking about current state of tagging, not about ideal design for it (I would prefer some separate tag like all_fuel_types_tagged=yes set when all fuel values became tagged, without it list would be not excluding untagged values) Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 06:18, 17 April 2021 (UTC)
- There are 116 fuel:others=no. If you look are less common ones, there are 2-in-158 fuel:LH2=only, and 2-in-6899 fuel:HGV_diesel=only, not as minuscule (still tiny) as the more prevalent ones. ---- Kovposch (talk) 09:51, 17 April 2021 (UTC)
- But currently it appears to be neither done nor recommended - and here I am asking about current state of tagging, not about ideal design for it (I would prefer some separate tag like all_fuel_types_tagged=yes set when all fuel values became tagged, without it list would be not excluding untagged values) Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 06:18, 17 April 2021 (UTC)
Now asked also on https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2023-April/067213.html Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 14:55, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
Tag scheme/ syntax
Shouldn't we try to use a uniform scheme? Now we have tags with underscore or colon as separator. Upper and lower case. For example:
- fuel:HGV_diesel
- fuel:adblue:hgv
--OSMRogerWilco (talk) 08:24, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
- I doubt this. The meaning should be slightly different, very tricky. They mean there exists a pump that can serve only trucks. Usually *:hgv=yes means there is something that applies to including trucks, not exclusive. The fuel:HGV_diesel=* actually has a valid case here.
- Further I suspect fuel:adblue:motorcar=yes is not entirely good for a pump "suitable for" only cars. You may still get fuel:adblue:canister=yes.
- Historically, Proposed_features/fuel is from 2006~2009, before colon access:*=* modal suffix is firmly established by Proposed features/Conditional restrictions in 2012.
- ---- Kovposch (talk) 19:04, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
Several fuels?
How to tag several fuels? I've tagged in the past with a semicolon (fuel=wood;charcoal) (https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/8927708496). Is this correct or is there a better way? --O-andras (talk) 19:54, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
Winter diesel
Please see this proposal to eliminate the "Cold weather diesel" row from this article and its translations. – Minh Nguyễn 💬 21:17, 20 November 2022 (UTC)