Talk:One feature, one OSM element
removing Essay lable
Although written by one user, User:Chriscf, I can't really see anything which represents a "minority viewpoint" on this page. So I'm going to remove Template:Essay label from here. If there's anything people disagree with on the page, I'd be interested to know why. It all looks good and sensible to me. Discuss here, and let's tweak the page if necessary, rather than labelling this as an essay.
-- Harry Wood
- the statement on the template did not say it represented a minority viewpoint, but that it might represent either a mainstream or a minority viewpoint. I've killed the template and associated category by tagging for deletion because it's obvious that if you are focusing on 'minority viewpoint' when it clearly isn't only for that, then someone else will. enough said - it's being killed. --Ceyockey 00:04, 23 December 2010 (UTC)
- This is interesting from a wiki-psychological point of view. Here's what I'm thinking.
- My eye was drawn to the "minority viewpoint", which perhaps was a misinterpretation, but I'm also uncomfortable with the some of the psychology of essay label. We want people to be bold, and make corrections. If content appears to contradict the community consensus, then that's a problem which should be tackled. Labelling a whole page as an individual's essay could be a useful first step in finding fixing these issues. I'm sure that's how you intended it. But I think actually it could have the opposite effect. People could see the page and be discouraged from modifying it because they may feel it is "owned" by somebody. Also people could get the idea that they want to write some of their own individual essays (which is bad).
- Over the years various people have tried to start writing their own individual "introduction to the project". This presents terrible problems in terms of wiki mess, since they're essentially duplicating a concept which is already bagged by Beginners' guide. This has been an ongoing cleanup issue discussed at Talk:Beginners' guide#wiki organisation. But in a more recent case I fixed it by moving someone's introduction into their 'User scratch space' ( User:Johnwhelan/How it works ) Perhaps that could be a good approach for dealing with whole pages which have the feel of individual essays. And perhaps we could have a template to label such pages too.
- However I wouldn't want to do that with a page like this page. Even though it is written by one person, it belongs in the main namespace. Why? Because it is not a duplication of other concepts. It can be meshed with other related concepts (needs to be). And finally I believe it is a good faith attempt (and a reasonably successful attempt) by an individual to document things which the community agree upon, or at least things which have settled to community norms and consensus. Now the page is open for input from others to help ensure that it reflects the consensus.
- -- Harry Wood 11:19, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
- I'll rescue the deleted content. Here's what the template used to look like:
|This essay contains the advice or opinions of one or more OSM contributors. Essays may represent widespread norms or minority viewpoints. Consider these views with discretion.|
- As I say, this, or something similar to it, could be useful in some situations, but I didn't think it was appropriate for this page.
- -- Harry Wood 17:30, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
"Once and only once" renamed to "One feature, one OSM element"
We have had a page called good practice for a long time, which summarises this and other similar points.
On that page the corresponding principle is named "One feature, one OSM element" (Actually it was called "One feature, one OSM object", but I've just changed that. "Object" vs "Element" is another discussion) So my suggestion is to rename this page to align with that, and then link from there and back. After all this page is currently an orphan.
It's a better name I think. Currently this page says "'Once and only once' is a principle whose meaning is self-explanatory", but I don't think it actually is very self explanatory. The next sentence goes on to say "A feature should appear on the ground once and only once", which I find confusing / incorrect. As I understood it, our conventional use of the word "feature" in OSM, is to mean a real-world feature ...which we want to map as an element with tags. I'm not disagreeing with any of the principle, just the wording of the introductory sentences.
-- Harry Wood 12:32, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
- OK I've done the move, and I'm going reword the top sentences a little -- Harry Wood 17:11, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
Often there is only a node and I want to correct it to a building outline.
There is no tool support for that in Potlatch 1 or 2 as far as I know.
It is only possible to copy tags from a node to a node, not to a way (area).
Is there one for JOSM?
--Lulu-Ann 01:14, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
- Well JOSM has a special version of the "paste" command which only pastes tags. So you do "copy" on the node, then select a newly drawn area and do "Paste tags". In fact I've recently decided this is quite handy, and so memorized the keyboard shortcut (Ctrl + Shift + V) - Harry Wood 01:57, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
- At least to date you can copy tags from a node to a way with Potlatch2. See Potlatch_2/Shortcuts at letter R. --Aseerel4c26 (talk) 01:12, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
I would say that "self explanatory" is quickly said ;-) ! What is the exact meaning of the "," (coma) in One feature, one OSM element ? Does that mean "for one feature (in the real world) you should only use one node/way/relation" ? (implication) or does that also mean that any one object in OSM should feature one only real thing ? (equivalence) sletuffe 01:21, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
- Well it goes on to say "once and only once" i.e. equivalence. In fact the author of this page originally called it "once and only once".
- From the way you're asking this question, I imagine you're taking it very literally and treating it as a very concrete rule. It's not. It's good practice principle. There's probably exceptions even in our commonly used mapping approaches.
- Anyway. I agree that it's not "self explanatory" actually. Think I will remove that
- -- Harry Wood 02:49, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
- No problem, I got it that it is a "good practice" with obviously exceptions as well. But I wasn't aware of the "once and only once" meaning. I knew about "if and only if" (=equivalence), but not with once. Thanks for explanations. sletuffe 11:35, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
One feature one osm element is bollocks
The rule is IMHO just pointless in this form. There is no such thing as "one feature" in the real world, it really just depends on your point of view. A tag is defined (in the best of the cases) to describe something / some aspect etc., and as you can use any tag you like in osm I think it is clear that there might be also several osm elements to describe (different aspects) of the "same thing". Take the first example: "A feature consisting of buildings on grounds (e.g. a school), should be mapped as an area object delineating the land with area objects marking the buildings. Tags should be on the area, and not the buildings, unless the buildings are different (e.g. buildings on the school grounds can be assumed to be part of the school)." While I understand what are the intentions behind this text, it still doesn't convince me. A school is not "consisting of buildings", at least no more than for example it consists of power lines. The education might take place inside the buildings, they house it, like the power lines bring electricity, but the school itself is an abstract entity, not the sum of its buildings and open air areas. For osm it is ok to spatially locate the function "school" to some real world place (i.e. the area described in the example), but it is important to realize that this is still only the area the school takes place in, not the school itself. -- Dieterdreist (talk) 17:10, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
- "it is important to realize that this is still only the area the school takes place in, not the school itself"... well now you're getting very abstract. Usually a school is a thing. You can go to a place and look at a school. At least I think this text is starting from that assumption.
- I guess there are times when a school takes on a more abstract transient form, e.g. an evening class "bob's school language" might take place in a building which is a community centre the rest of the time. In those cases I guess it's debatable whether we should be mapping it as a school at all. In any case that's not what this guideline supposed to be about. We're not discussing school definition edge-cases on this page. We're talking about a school... y'know... one of these things... and we're talking about the case where it's made up of several buildings. And specifically with this guideline we're telling mappers not to place ten schools in a cluster on the map when they're adding the building details.
- -- Harry Wood (talk) 00:03, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
Adding points to objets
Some GPS navigation tools, that use OSM as data source can only use point objects as POIs when searching. So I was thinking of marking the entrances of specific locations with additional point objects for navigational purposes. I'm curious about your opinion. --Nice Micro (talk) 03:45, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
- It doesn't sound like a good idea, and would be in violation of "One feature, one OSM element" yes. You'll be making things work better for your GPS navigation tool, but breaking it for other people, who will now see the thing doubled-up in the data. Unfortunately the only correct solution is to ask the developers of such tools to fix them. It's a very false assumption that POIs must be done as nodes (well.... It may depend a bit on which type of POI. Something small like an ATM will most appear as a node not an area. But any POI types which occupy a building will very often be done as an area in heavily mapped parts of the world)
- Obviously adding the entrance of building as a node is a good idea (Use entrance=main), for helping other kinds of apps, but the POI tag information should not be repeated on that node. That would break things for everyone else
- -- Harry Wood (talk) 15:52, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
- JOSM is a bit different: It's not supposed to produce a nice-looking map, but makes it very clear how the underlying data looks. For example, you want to be able to distinguish whether the shop tag is on an area or node. If both produced an icon, then these cases would not be visually distinguishable from each other. People might try to select the icon, thinking it's a node.
- So even though rendering icons for areas is good for normal maps, it might not be the best choice for an editor. Obviously it's up for the JOSM devs to decide this. --Tordanik 20:03, 14 January 2017 (UTC)
- While I understand and agree to your point that JOSM should allow for easy differentiation, it should be possible to switch between the two options of display, so that one can make sure everything IS actually tagged. On the otherside, for display on normal maps, the icon needs to be displayed whenever there is a tag, independently if it is a node, path or area being tagged. -Maailma (talk) 04:43, 15 January 2017 (UTC)
Tag data section does not make much sense to me
I was trying to translate this page to Czech but the Tag data section does not make much sense to me.
Could someone please elaborate on this and possibly add some examples to make it more clear?