2014 West Africa Ebola Response/UNMEER Routing Project

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Tool Options

GPS Data


April 1 Meeting

April 1 meeting to summarize coordination to date https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/hot/2015-April/007904.html

Summary of Robert's Data Collection Update

  • Primary area invovled Kambia in Sierra Leone
  • Organizations invovled: Red Cross, Mari Steps, UNMEER Fleet Manager, Drivers union of Kambia
  • Currently some paper maps on office walls, drivers write travel times along routes they took.
  • WHO Ebola surveillance team in Kambia uses OSMAnd for GPS traces, 30 second interval
  • Currently GPS traces are saved to Google Drive
  • E-health soon to start Ebola surveillance project for vaccine trials, they are requested to use OSMAnd or OSMTracker to collect GPS traces as well
  • Need SOP for OSMAnd installation (Robert created this)
  • Need additional training materials for new OSMAnd users
  • Port Loko (45 mins away) might join OSM GPS trace collection project
  • Paper maps - NERC will scan and distribute to UNCS, HOT/OSM and NERC staff
  • Each group to evaluate validity and usefulness as an emergency collection process
  • 9000 phones were donated for Ebola

Improvements Needed

  • Automate upload of GPS traces
  • Travel time information added to road objects in OSM (average_speed=) based on time of year (OSM conditional tag for month)
  • Development of isochrone scenario planning tool for Health Facilities, Markets, etc
  • Ability to upload layers (shapefile?) of points for isochrone tool
  • Select time frames for isochrone tool
  • Export results (shapefile?) from isochrone tool
  • Continuing collection of GPS traces to get info for all months and improve travel time info with more traces
  • Consider average_speed reset after some time of no new updates

Discussion Highlights

osrm-isochrone would work for graphhopper, but again: this is a purely JS solution and imprecise as has to assume fixed speed of 70mph

  • There are some good links here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Isochrone
  • To properly detect an actual change, and distinguish it from a spurious value, would be good to have a record of recent values and calculate variance
  • We could propose and use an average_speed tag for OSM, but an out of band process should generate the suggested tags and a manual import process to attach that info the OSM road segments.
  • We should use a workflow that requires HOT/OSM person to review the generated average_speed info and approve adding it to the OSM live data.
  • Paper map workflow is good for emergencies as a first, low technology way to gather speed related data
  • Imapassable roads can not be automatically detected and will require someone to mark a spot "impassable" by hand in the phone app
  • Additonal features like marking points for users should be considered a future update.


Apr 01 16:41:02 <LuisHernando>	Hello friends
Apr 01 16:45:16 <BlakeGirardot_>	Hi LuisHernando 
Apr 01 16:46:35 <BlakeGirardot_>	This is where we thought we would have the coordination meeting.
Apr 01 16:55:54 <pierzen|2>	Hi LuisHernando, meeting in 5 minutes :)
Apr 01 17:00:05 <pierzen|2>	UNMEER routing discussion should start soon. Waiting for more people to participate
Apr 01 17:00:34 <mkl>	hi I am here for the UNMEER routing discussion
Apr 01 17:01:29 <RyanLash>	I am here for the UNMEER routing discussion as well
Apr 01 17:01:31 <clairedelune>	I'm also here for the meeting
Apr 01 17:01:43 <mkl>	i just pinged Robert Colombo
Apr 01 17:02:02 <pierzen|2>	Hi all, I announced on the OSM irc to bring in more people.
Apr 01 17:02:02 <mkl>	and Peter from GraphHopper
Apr 01 17:03:04 <ptressel>	Likewise here for routing.
Apr 01 17:03:57 <robert_vram>	robert vram
Apr 01 17:03:58 <robert_vram>	i am here
Apr 01 17:04:07 <robert_vram>	Accessibility tool.
Apr 01 17:04:33 <LuisHernando>	hello
Apr 01 17:04:34 <LuisHernando>	Hola Tio
Apr 01 17:05:40 <pierzen|2>	Do we start the discussion now, or should we wait for more participants?
Apr 01 17:05:58 <robert_vram>	let s wait form kilen and the Graph hoper guys
Apr 01 17:06:00 <mkl>	LuisHernando: will Robert be joining?
Apr 01 17:06:25 <LuisHernando>	Hello everybody. I'm Luis hernando AGUILAR Information Officer in UNMEER (@luishernando) I used to work in OCHA and I participated in several emergencies (I see some well know nicks here)
Apr 01 17:06:41 <LuisHernando>	Robert is robert_vram
Apr 01 17:06:48 <ptressel>	Folks who arrive late can catch up on the log at http://logs.sahanafoundation.org/hotosm/2015-04-01.txt
Apr 01 17:07:20 <mkl>	ok great
Apr 01 17:07:28 <mkl>	I just pinged Peter again, hopefully he can join
Apr 01 17:08:12 <robert_vram>	thanks Pat
Apr 01 17:08:59 <mkl>	well let's get started, we have a critical mass. and i think the bigger questions are in data collection methods, tags, etc
Apr 01 17:09:04 <mkl>	so we can start there
Apr 01 17:09:34 <LuisHernando>	Lets go! :)
Apr 01 17:09:58 <BlakeGirardot_>	Can someone update on the status of data collection ?
Apr 01 17:10:08 <robert_vram>	i can
Apr 01 17:10:23 <robert_vram>	currently several activities taking place
Apr 01 17:10:50 <robert_vram>	focusing in Kambia in SLE as the pilto project site..we say pilto as stuffis going on there frmo different org
Apr 01 17:11:23 <robert_vram>	OMS paper maps have been hanged on several offices and we have requested the driver to  write a log of where thy have been on a daily basis, adding info on Travel time for the route they tool
Apr 01 17:11:46 <pierzen|2>	Plus we started remote update of map for Kambia http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/971
Apr 01 17:11:49 <robert_vram>	offices involve REd cross, Mari Steps , Fleed manager from UNMEER, Drivers usion of Kambia
Apr 01 17:12:19 <robert_vram>	WHO suveillance team in Kambia are starting to use OSM and to collect GPX traces with points every 30 secs
Apr 01 17:12:45 <robert_vram>	the GPx traces are now beeing placed in a google drive. the owner of the drive needs to give us approval to sahare it with other partners
Apr 01 17:12:56 <robert_vram>	E-health will implemlent a surveillance project for Vaccine trail there
Apr 01 17:13:13 <robert_vram>	we have requested that they install OSM And or tracker on their phones to get GPX traces
Apr 01 17:13:37 <robert_vram>	project still not started. curernt ly writting an OSP of how to install OSMAND fo rnew users and WHo logistical officer information
Apr 01 17:13:44 <robert_vram>	TRaining will be needed for those folks
Apr 01 17:13:50 <robert_vram>	Basically this = Kambia
Apr 01 17:14:09 <robert_vram>	i will have a conversation with WHo staff in port loko that would like to join OSM GPx tracing
Apr 01 17:14:25 <robert_vram>	similar to what kambia is doing 9 they are separated 45 mins only in any case
Apr 01 17:14:37 <robert_vram>	whay is expected wit the info
Apr 01 17:14:43 <robert_vram>	Paper maps will com to the NERC
Apr 01 17:14:46 <robert_vram>	NERC will scan them
Apr 01 17:15:10 <robert_vram>	maps and info on TT will be made avaailbel trouigh scanned copyes to UNCS, OSM and NERc staff
Apr 01 17:15:44 <robert_vram>	each unit will work on them and add them to thjeuir layer? why 3 projects? to allow each Agency to test and try and engage them if they see the cvalidity of having this as a corporate solution for emergecneis
Apr 01 17:15:50 <robert_vram>	What is the request on OSM and
Apr 01 17:16:12 <robert_vram>	having the info updated autiomatically in a server, folder, without the user needing to be involved
Apr 01 17:16:41 <mkl>	robert_vram: so the idea is that GPX files and scanned maps with notes would be uploaded and shared for processing by HOT?
Apr 01 17:16:51 <robert_vram>	OSM will need to figure out how to use this info and update the road layer with TT info  that will chane as meny users will use the Application
Apr 01 17:16:57 <robert_vram>	expectur results
Apr 01 17:17:08 <robert_vram>	mikle you are right
Apr 01 17:17:12 <robert_vram>	let me continue briefly
Apr 01 17:17:21 <robert_vram>	Expected results
Apr 01 17:17:28 <robert_vram>	routable layer from OSM
Apr 01 17:17:52 <robert_vram>	developement of an isochrone tool for scpenario planning 9 location of HF, Markets, etc
Apr 01 17:18:19 <robert_vram>	the more the users run on the layer the more precise the information for each month season will be
Apr 01 17:19:01 <robert_vram>	with isochrones based on matrix of location s9 i would suggest layers of points instead to avoid another step) scenarios will be able to be snalyzed
Apr 01 17:19:12 <robert_vram>	how a road evolves on dry rainy season is veru sensible in Africa
Apr 01 17:19:16 <robert_vram>	Future outcomes
Apr 01 17:19:50 <robert_vram>	if a tool can be implemented on line , humanitaian comunity will be abel to use for their own calculations engagig tehm to be information provider not just for roads but for location (HF, CCC etc
Apr 01 17:19:58 <robert_vram>	i am done from my side
Apr 01 17:20:26 <BlakeGirardot_>	Perfect, thank you very much. I was behind in the info.
Apr 01 17:20:52 <clairedelune>	who is developping the isochrone tool?
Apr 01 17:21:11 <robert_vram>	how do we proceed? what do developers think on those? As far as i know ther is no isochrone tool beeing implemented yet
Apr 01 17:21:19 <ptressel>	OSRM has one.
Apr 01 17:21:39 <robert_vram>	grashoper?
Apr 01 17:21:45 <robert_vram>	graphhoper sorry
Apr 01 17:22:19 <BlakeGirardot_>	Are there offline requiremtns for the routing tool?
Apr 01 17:22:29 <mkl>	karussell has joined from graphhopper
Apr 01 17:22:39 <robert_vram>	would be good to have tehe capaity to upload layers of elements to make the calculations
Apr 01 17:23:04 <mkl>	my question is how we intend to process the GPX and scanned maps, in order to feed into data for the routing tool
Apr 01 17:23:15 <karussell>	there is a currently closed source of such an isochrone tool for graphhopper. also opentripplanner has one but not suitable for large areas
Apr 01 17:23:23 <robert_vram>	basically how do we get the data from the users on the field without neede hem to export manually the data and how this data on TT is added to the routable layer to be considered as an attribute?
Apr 01 17:23:44 <robert_vram>	mkl good question
Apr 01 17:24:11 <ptressel>	http://libraries.io/npm/osrm-isochrone
Apr 01 17:24:15 <robert_vram>	as we use OSMAND (or the proposed evolution of the tool) all gpx would be having the same structure
Apr 01 17:25:29 <robert_vram>	could OSM and or tracker be modified  to do this? i klnow google mytracks can add al the data automatically to a Google drive
Apr 01 17:25:37 <robert_vram>	just questions
Apr 01 17:26:12 <BlakeGirardot_>	osmAnd supports plugins
Apr 01 17:26:17 <karussell>	ptressel: as it is a JS solution would work with nearly any router BUT this is a rather imprecise solution ...
Apr 01 17:27:44 <ptressel>	Looks like the main repo is hosted by mapbox: https://github.com/mapbox/osrm-isochrone
Apr 01 17:28:14 <robert_vram>	looks promissing
Apr 01 17:28:59 <ptressel>	I don't have my notes from the isochrone discussion some months ago :( but I did chat w/ someone from OSRM. They were very open to working on it some more.
Apr 01 17:29:29 <BlakeGirardot_>	and osmtracker is opensource so I don't see why either or both of them could not be made to support the auto uploading of the gps traces.
Apr 01 17:29:50 <mkl>	karussell: you had some options right? 
Apr 01 17:30:14 <mkl>	even if closed source, if it works for the requirements, we can consider it
Apr 01 17:30:17 <robert_vram>	now how do we make it possible: add GPX through OSMAnd data, Addapt OSM App to automaticall update info, OSM TT availability ( selection of time frame) ...to later go to online website..using the layer a user would be able to update a point shapefile with codes of elements to map, select isochione calcualtion (select time frames ) export resulting 
Apr 01 17:30:17 <robert_vram>	isochrone as shape for heyr own consumtion
Apr 01 17:31:02 <robert_vram>	people on he field are really using OSm guys...
Apr 01 17:31:22 <robert_vram>	and they are starting to see the benefit of ofline maps in their phones for POI, cuurveillance, contact tracing
Apr 01 17:31:32 <clairedelune>	:)
Apr 01 17:32:35 <robert_vram>	i spoke to IFRC colleague and he told me:" i would like to be ablo to define where i shiould train people to make sure i cover the compelte territorory of SLE and i leave some capacity here...but can not define where now because I do not know how long it takes me to go from opne place to the opther in this country , and do not know how it will be i
Apr 01 17:32:35 <robert_vram>	n the rainy season"
Apr 01 17:33:22 <robert_vram>	see...advoacy is key..dont expect to have EPi team knowing about mapps all the time..IM and GIS should priovide3 support..if we catch the eye of decision makers we will make it anywhere
Apr 01 17:33:56 <mkl>	ok so distinct questions to answer 
Apr 01 17:34:05 <mkl>	1) how to process collected field data into OSM
Apr 01 17:34:18 <mkl>	2) how to present that data as an appropriate routing application
Apr 01 17:34:37 <mkl>	anyone have ideas for 1?
Apr 01 17:34:38 <karussell>	mkl: yes, see https://github.com/graphhopper/directions-api#isochrone-api
Apr 01 17:34:58 <mkl>	robert_vram: can you share collected sample data so far?
Apr 01 17:35:30 <robert_vram>	i can share some but not all the google drive
Apr 01 17:35:31 <karussell>	also the osrm-isochrone would work for graphhopper, but again: this is a purely JS solution and imprecise as has to assume fixed speed of 70mph (just look into the source)
Apr 01 17:35:46 <mkl>	karussell: that looks perfect actually. that is all from OSM data? someone would just need to write something against the API?
Apr 01 17:35:48 <ptressel>	That can be fixed.
Apr 01 17:35:48 <BlakeGirardot_>	mkl, I feel like you left out 0) how to automate the upload of the gpx traces unless that is not an issue for some reason
Apr 01 17:36:04 <karussell>	mkl: yes, from OSM
Apr 01 17:36:28 <mkl>	karussell: 70 mph fixed speed in osrm-isochrone? but not graphhopper api?
Apr 01 17:36:32 <karussell>	mkl: re 1) if it is traffic data it won't belong into OSM, IMO
Apr 01 17:36:48 <mkl>	what tags does it utilize to calculate road segment speed?
Apr 01 17:36:56 <ptressel>	There are some good links here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Isochrone
Apr 01 17:37:03 <mkl>	or how else is that data stored, if not in OSM tags?
Apr 01 17:37:29 <mkl>	BlakeGirardot_: not sure that's essential. robert_vram? there does at least need to be a workflow to upload, automated or not
Apr 01 17:37:56 <robert_vram>	it need to be an automated format
Apr 01 17:37:57 <karussell>	mkl: we created a solution for graphhopper which can calculate speed based on surface, highway, etc
Apr 01 17:38:07 <robert_vram>	paper maps are fast temporary solutions frmo peple from the field
Apr 01 17:38:21 <robert_vram>	but GPX traces shoudl be teh main tool
Apr 01 17:39:05 <robert_vram>	for places like kambia whern a solution need sto be provided taht was the way to engage non technical users (as it moslty happen in emergencies drivers do not have smartphones al lthe time,. specially in Africa)
Apr 01 17:39:24 <robert_vram>	karussell: i have seen models using that
Apr 01 17:39:35 <robert_vram>	now in an earthwuale or flood the speed is marked by other elements
Apr 01 17:39:54 <robert_vram>	thats the goal..a tool that it is updated by the user in a particular setting during a crisis
Apr 01 17:40:09 <mkl>	anything else karussell? we are not trying to collect traffic, but average speed on a road
Apr 01 17:40:09 <pierzen|2>	Talking of OSM, the first step is to define tags to add to the database. We need a tagging schema that routing tools can use.
Apr 01 17:40:22 <karussell>	robert_vram: yes, sure. It is not hard to adapt that speed calculation
Apr 01 17:40:25 <mkl>	that's going to be somewhat dynamic, main variable will be season
Apr 01 17:40:43 <robert_vram>	mkl
Apr 01 17:40:49 <karussell>	mkl: I see, then probably okay via the traffic tag?
Apr 01 17:40:50 <robert_vram>	season related
Apr 01 17:41:01 <BlakeGirardot_>	OSM supports that now as well mkl. I forget the name of the tagging schema but the (may - june) format
Apr 01 17:41:05 <robert_vram>	or even event related...think of an earthwuake
Apr 01 17:41:16 <robert_vram>	eartquake where roads are unpassable
Apr 01 17:41:22 <robert_vram>	let s get the users get us the data
Apr 01 17:41:58 <robert_vram>	help identify critiacal points on a road 9 aparticular damaged section, normally bridges) that could boos accessibility
Apr 01 17:42:21 <karussell>	http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Conditional_restrictions
Apr 01 17:42:30 <BlakeGirardot_>	I envision the data on the road segment with the time period for each month of year generated automatically from the gpx traces.
Apr 01 17:43:37 <robert_vram>	blake automatically udpated
Apr 01 17:43:45 <BlakeGirardot_>	yes
Apr 01 17:43:45 <robert_vram>	let s say a user passes for the first time the road
Apr 01 17:43:49 <robert_vram>	the data is collected
Apr 01 17:43:59 <robert_vram>	now 10 users pass next day at differnet speeds
Apr 01 17:44:12 <robert_vram>	an average speed could be calcualted and update the precious one
Apr 01 17:44:26 <robert_vram>	let's face that we will not ghet the vehicle the user is using
Apr 01 17:44:30 <BlakeGirardot_>	That is what I envision. It just gets more accurate over time.
Apr 01 17:44:52 <robert_vram>	but after 100 uses and 100 collected points average speed (or median speed or any opther statitically chosen speed) cold be used and set
Apr 01 17:44:58 <robert_vram>	yep
Apr 01 17:45:02 <robert_vram>	accuracy is user dependent
Apr 01 17:45:38 <robert_vram>	that the trick to make it  usefull for users: open, user related, udpated over time, adaptable to situation
Apr 01 17:45:56 <BlakeGirardot_>	I dont understand what "user related" measn
Apr 01 17:46:04 <clairedelune>	But in some places after a few years, another layer of gravel is added and then suddenly vehicles goes faster... would be good to be able to detect this kind of change as well in future.
Apr 01 17:46:13 <ptressel>	What about retaining other info besides the average speed, e.g. at least the variance?
Apr 01 17:46:15 <BlakeGirardot_>	I agree claire
Apr 01 17:46:28 <robert_vram>	user will be adding this info
Apr 01 17:46:39 <robert_vram>	a tag of last collected data would be usefull maybe
Apr 01 17:46:46 <robert_vram>	automatically
Apr 01 17:46:53 <robert_vram>	let's start step by step
Apr 01 17:47:03 <robert_vram>	the curent use is for emergencies where people move
Apr 01 17:47:10 <robert_vram>	roads are also being updated
Apr 01 17:47:20 <robert_vram>	and season makes road unpassable from one day to the other
Apr 01 17:47:51 <ptressel>	To properly detect an actual change, and distinguish it from a spurious value, would be good to have a record of recent values.
Apr 01 17:47:58 <robert_vram>	algoritm should be able to detect what is happenign if after 1 year of ntohaving a single poinjt collected in aroad set to 30km h , the new recorded speed is 100
Apr 01 17:48:09 <mkl>	BlakeGirardot_: i think automatically updating speed from GPS Traces into OSM is problematic
Apr 01 17:48:27 <robert_vram>	but it is refining the alroith of average speed setting then..not the OSM tag aquisition for speed
Apr 01 17:48:29 <mkl>	there should be some intermediary step with involving human eyes
Apr 01 17:49:05 <robert_vram>	well paper maps could give you this if it takes part of the first assessmetn combined
Apr 01 17:49:10 <BlakeGirardot_>	I agree mkl when you say it that way. It would automatically generate the data and a human would review and actually attach to the road segment.
Apr 01 17:49:20 <robert_vram>	humans in emergencies do use the road but do not assess them
Apr 01 17:49:26 <karussell>	mkl: because of this problem I still suggest an external step for this automatically created speed suggestions
Apr 01 17:50:05 <robert_vram>	it is for emergencies specially
Apr 01 17:50:16 <mkl>	do we have an option for processes the GPX files into speed suggestions?
Apr 01 17:50:27 <BlakeGirardot_>	robert_vram: I understand what you are saying. You are right "impassable" is a challenged as there is no good automated way to detect impassable.
Apr 01 17:50:31 <robert_vram>	TT will not be usefull when humanitarians leave as we would not be able to control de users then
Apr 01 17:51:07 <robert_vram>	you are right Blake.
Apr 01 17:51:41 <BlakeGirardot_>	But there are also other data points you want the users to easily collect and report to HOT/OSM
Apr 01 17:51:42 <robert_vram>	starting poitns shopuld already making assumptions of speeds
Apr 01 17:51:53 <pierzen|2>	Impassable or difficult : we dont know if somebody was stopped two hours for some rest or because of obtacles on the road.
Apr 01 17:51:57 <robert_vram>	to latter have them updated by the OMS trcker users
Apr 01 17:51:59 <ptressel>	If you want to detect whether a new reading that is far from the previous average is statistically improbable, one needs some info about the distribution, not just the average.
Apr 01 17:52:36 <robert_vram>	repetitions of stoped people on a point during an emergency would mean obstacles
Apr 01 17:52:49 <robert_vram>	if one passes fast it might be road block o control
Apr 01 17:52:50 robert_vram RyanLash Richlv reidab rekth rorym_ rup3rt russss_ 
Apr 01 17:52:55 <clairedelune>	Impassable roads can be edited manually using this tag: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Tags/practicability
Apr 01 17:53:02 <ptressel>	Or, it might mean there's a rest stop there.
Apr 01 17:53:16 <robert_vram>	forget about user to edit on OSM. We are taklkkign about non GIS or mapping users
Apr 01 17:53:28 <BlakeGirardot_>	robert_vram: Would something like a button to mark things work?
Apr 01 17:53:32 <BlakeGirardot_>	So on their phone
Apr 01 17:53:34 <robert_vram>	100% stoping at the same location? not reallywhile on the field
Apr 01 17:53:35 <BlakeGirardot_>	they are stopped
Apr 01 17:53:43 <BlakeGirardot_>	they hit a button to mark "blocked at this point"
Apr 01 17:53:54 <BlakeGirardot_>	or bridge/ford/etc
Apr 01 17:53:55 <robert_vram>	button could be. OSM and has one already to take pics and notes
Apr 01 17:54:07 <robert_vram>	osm tracked has that
Apr 01 17:54:26 <robert_vram>	but can t be sure that the surveillance team will click it
Apr 01 17:54:32 <pierzen|2>	osmtracker?
Apr 01 17:54:38 <robert_vram>	i can make sure he will not forget the phone for sure, specially contact tracers
Apr 01 17:54:39 <BlakeGirardot_>	Ok, cool, just wondering if we could get it down to like 10 big buttons for the 10 most commonly needed to record item would work for them.
Apr 01 17:55:17 <clairedelune>	robert_vram I meant that instead of using the speed tag, we could fill the practicability one instead by "clicking on a button"
Apr 01 17:55:27 <robert_vram>	Bklake OSm tracked does taht buit I think it does not have the offline capacity to have maps that user can see..Tis is another conideration...let s make user start to use maps
Apr 01 17:56:16 <robert_vram>	in y opinion: user should not be involved...whe the y see the added value of the data they were collecting, we can think of udpates
Apr 01 17:56:40 <pierzen|2>	It would be good that the various OSM products use the same basemap. This obf OSMand file could be shared by various applications.
Apr 01 17:56:41 <robert_vram>	contact tracers go to the field to trace possible infected people. Will not have time to continously update road status..it is nto theyr job..
Apr 01 17:57:23 <BlakeGirardot_>	I see so two different user bases, professional drivers and people who drive as part of another professional activity.
Apr 01 17:58:02 <robert_vram>	professional drivers ....another story...paper maps for them
Apr 01 17:58:18 <robert_vram>	simple people..they drive..and we can not make use the phone while driving legally
Apr 01 17:59:45 <clairedelune>	when a road is really impassable, usually they are stopped (and could maybe click on a button just in that case) but I fully agree everything should be as much as possible automatized
Apr 01 18:00:10 <robert_vram>	if it is a corporate solution that would do..but drivers are not my concern...are the Smarthopne users..
Apr 01 18:00:24 <robert_vram>	lets thing big..9000 phones were donated for Ebola
Apr 01 18:00:33 <robert_vram>	how many ogf them are they using GPX tracers ?
Apr 01 18:00:35 <robert_vram>	no many?
Apr 01 18:00:35 <BlakeGirardot_>	robert_vram: I got lost on the user base then. So automated gpx traces only from non-professional drivers?
Apr 01 18:00:55 <robert_vram>	those who use GPX what do they do with ti? they use it internally
Apr 01 18:01:06 <robert_vram>	how many send info to OMS or other mapping agencies?
Apr 01 18:01:22 <clairedelune>	very few
Apr 01 18:01:27 <robert_vram>	Blake gpx trace sfor any user diregarding who they are
Apr 01 18:01:51 <robert_vram>	if a driver gets a smartphones let s make sure he knows how to clik on/ffGPX tracing when he leaves and come back
Apr 01 18:02:21 <BlakeGirardot_>	Ok, so some drives might end up with smartphones for automatic gpx collection
Apr 01 18:02:34 <robert_vram>	yep
Apr 01 18:02:40 <robert_vram>	we could push for that.
Apr 01 18:03:03 <robert_vram>	As mentioend i am writting an SoP for installing OSM and..but even for me it was not eay in the begining
Apr 01 18:03:31 <robert_vram>	so ...similar to crisis signal app install , say how you want to share..done
Apr 01 18:03:42 <robert_vram>	will just need hat driver starts the GPS
Apr 01 18:03:51 <BlakeGirardot_>	Do you have a preference yet for OsmAnd or OsmTracker personally?
Apr 01 18:04:17 <robert_vram>	OSMAnd as you can have a refernce map and see your trace..important for some activities
Apr 01 18:04:31 <robert_vram>	but i was willing to hear from other developers about their recomendation
Apr 01 18:04:31 <pierzen|2>	Other solution for trace collection is these cheap gsp sniffers that can trace for a complete week.
Apr 01 18:04:44 <robert_vram>	smartphones
Apr 01 18:04:49 <robert_vram>	no one loose them
Apr 01 18:04:55 <BlakeGirardot_>	Ok, so there is some functionality in OSMAnd you use that tracker does not have. Got it.
Apr 01 18:05:05 <robert_vram>	well i did but everyone takes care of their staff if they see a use for the device
Apr 01 18:05:19 <robert_vram>	snifer would do for Coca cola and logistics tracing..another story
Apr 01 18:06:03 <BlakeGirardot_>	Ya, I had that idea too pierzen|2 Tiny tracker, solar powered, auto connect to wifi and dump traces every 24 hours or when in wifi range. Just mount it to the truck, done. configure via bluetooth smartphone app once.
Apr 01 18:06:20 <robert_vram>	Blake go didea
Apr 01 18:06:24 <robert_vram>	but anotehr device
Apr 01 18:06:28 <BlakeGirardot_>	ya :(
Apr 01 18:06:36 <BlakeGirardot_>	That probably doesn't exist yet
Apr 01 18:06:39 <robert_vram>	no donations for them yet....maybe in 10 years...implement the same on the smartphone please
Apr 01 18:06:51 <robert_vram>	this is exaclty what is needed
Apr 01 18:07:01 <robert_vram>	second stage woul be how this info is treated at OSM
Apr 01 18:07:05 <robert_vram>	routable layer
Apr 01 18:08:06 <ptressel>	GPS tracking devices for vehicles certainly do exist -- they are used by shared car agencies, for monitoring driver behavior by insurance companies...
Apr 01 18:09:10 ptressel pierzen|2 pgiraud Plesioth pnorman ProN00b 
Apr 01 18:09:28 <LuisHernando>	but I think that is not realistic to have those devices in that area
Apr 01 18:09:42 <ptressel>	Do a web search for "vehicle mounted gps tracking".
Apr 01 18:09:55 <LuisHernando>	even the biggest groups have not that
Apr 01 18:10:17 <clairedelune>	some humanitarian organizations (UN) have got tracking chips on their vehicles as well but I can't remember the frequency of the record
Apr 01 18:10:22 <BlakeGirardot_>	ptressel: Yes, but I was thinking more a "config, stick on truck, forget about it" no wiring or microsd cards etc. And ya, just not part of this unfortunately at the moment.
Apr 01 18:10:31 <LuisHernando>	I understand that there are some agriculture companies that have some, but is not in the most prioritized area
Apr 01 18:10:51 <BlakeGirardot_>	So the data in OSM
Apr 01 18:11:07 <robert_vram>	UN?
Apr 01 18:11:12 <LuisHernando>	clairedelune sadly for us in UN is not an standard
Apr 01 18:11:17 <robert_vram>	well tell me who  has thm in Ebola and i ll contact them
Apr 01 18:11:19 <ptressel>	BlakeGirardot_, Yes, there are companies that provide that service, but commercial.
Apr 01 18:11:28 <robert_vram>	so Far I have seen Barret rado but GPS in use? nonononononon
Apr 01 18:11:39 <BlakeGirardot_>	I think we can cover it with either the existing tags or maybe we propose an average_speed=* tag
Apr 01 18:11:41 <robert_vram>	fleet management shoudl be corporate but it is not there
Apr 01 18:11:45 <robert_vram>	not now.
Apr 01 18:11:45 <LuisHernando>	the MOSS say that a GPS device must be in the car, but the truth is that the devices is in the car, but turned it off into a box
Apr 01 18:12:20 <robert_vram>	yep
Apr 01 18:12:26 <robert_vram>	smartphones are always in pockets
Apr 01 18:12:31 <clairedelune>	I know this from some other countries, will get back to you later if I get confirmation that some have it in the area.
Apr 01 18:12:31 <robert_vram>	use what the user has
Apr 01 18:12:38 <clairedelune>	agreed
Apr 01 18:12:45 <robert_vram>	in any case we look for other users also
Apr 01 18:12:46 <LuisHernando>	(I tried to involve to UNDSS on this and there are some nice examples but in Colombia, not here )
Apr 01 18:12:57 <robert_vram>	GPX traces , OSM TT update, Isochrone calcualtion
Apr 01 18:13:32 <BlakeGirardot_>	I just don't see any issue but programmer time
Apr 01 18:14:34 <robert_vram>	let s try then
Apr 01 18:14:48 <robert_vram>	what about OSM layer update?
Apr 01 18:15:00 <robert_vram>	mkl wold you be wiling to reeive the GPx traces and the paper scanned maps?
Apr 01 18:16:24 <BlakeGirardot_>	I can't speak for mkl, but I would be, understanding that the paper maps are just a temporary solution and that we need programmer time to process the gpx traces.
Apr 01 18:17:19 <BlakeGirardot_>	Then we would have to develop a workflow to attach the processed gpx trace data to roads in OSM
Apr 01 18:17:24 <robert_vram>	ok
Apr 01 18:17:25 <BlakeGirardot_>	that is what we can't fully automate.
Apr 01 18:17:36 <robert_vram>	i have sent once mroe the request to sahre GPX traces
Apr 01 18:17:53 <BlakeGirardot_>	I have a sample one you(?) sent
Apr 01 18:17:59 <ptressel>	Do the traces have timestamps on individual points?
Apr 01 18:18:01 <BlakeGirardot_>	Someone sent a sample.
Apr 01 18:18:18 <robert_vram>	i have a GPX trace yes
Apr 01 18:18:25 <robert_vram>	from kambuia
Apr 01 18:18:44 <BlakeGirardot_>	ptressel: The one I saw did and it had speed info attached, but I was told we are better off calculating speed.
Apr 01 18:19:03 <karussell>	BlakeGirardpt_: that is automatable via map matching: https://github.com/graphhopper/map-matching
Apr 01 18:19:10 <ptressel>	Ok, good.
Apr 01 18:19:43 <robert_vram>	https://www.filepicker.io/api/file/4SGsds0ZSIe4lYBOlPAl
Apr 01 18:19:56 <BlakeGirardot_>	karussell: I thought the main issue with automated into OSM was philosophical really. We use a tool like that to generate a .osm file, someone opens, reviews, and merges by hand, just because.
Apr 01 18:20:34 <robert_vram>	https://www.filepicker.io/api/file/3xOpJ3OeQfacwtBXGiDl
Apr 01 18:20:35 <BlakeGirardot_>	just because we want a human to look at it
Apr 01 18:20:40 <robert_vram>	freetown kambioa and Kambia Freetown
Apr 01 18:20:49 <robert_vram>	road is asphalt
Apr 01 18:21:22 <robert_vram>	humans make errors
Apr 01 18:21:26 <robert_vram>	100 humans make a trend
Apr 01 18:21:26 <BlakeGirardot_>	And we might have to adjust/split/combine/otherwise clean up ways.
Apr 01 18:21:36 <Zverik>	As for car gpx trackers, I've testen one that's mounted with a magnet on a roof, and in comparison with a regular Garmin etrex traces were quite poor in quality
Apr 01 18:22:59 <ptressel>	I hear it's better for accuracy to mount them *under* the vehicle. Don't know the reason.
Apr 01 18:23:01 <BlakeGirardot_>	Zverik: Inteseting. I would expect a mag mount to be ..... problematic
Apr 01 18:23:31 <BlakeGirardot_>	I have to run for 15 mins. But I can catch up when I get back
Apr 01 18:23:39 <Zverik>	globalsat bu-353. Magnet worked excellent, because my car is made of steel
Apr 01 18:23:42 <BlakeGirardot_>	if I don't see you leave, I really want to thank everyone for attending
Apr 01 18:23:43 <ptressel>	GPS signals are received from satellite -- signal not affected by magne3t.
Apr 01 18:23:44 <robert_vram>	must keep back on my Accra stuff guys
Apr 01 18:24:12 <robert_vram>	will be available in any case...and in case i get diconeected for to long robertcolombo@gmail.comwoudl do the trick
Apr 01 18:24:29 <BlakeGirardot_>	I think we can do this really. Programmer time. That is the resource is short supply.
Apr 01 18:24:39 <ptressel>	:D
Apr 01 18:25:12 <pierzen|2>	Thanks robert_vram for this presentation. We can follow by email and even bring interested people in the Skype discusion group.
Apr 01 18:25:44 <ptressel>	http://codeforall.org/
Apr 01 18:25:45 <robert_vram>	ta=lk soon! teka care!
Apr 01 18:25:57 <pierzen|2>	same 2 you
Apr 01 18:26:10 <ptressel>	There are sources of programmers wanting to do humanitarian work.
Apr 01 18:27:25 <pierzen|2>	thanks ptressel
Apr 01 18:27:48 <ptressel>	That's only one organization -- there are a lot.
Apr 01 18:28:19 <clairedelune>	Thank you all
Apr 01 18:28:50 <clairedelune>	pierzen|2 please include me in the skype group
Apr 01 18:29:13 <pierzen|2>	ok
Apr 01 18:29:14 <mkl>	I wasn't able to follow the entire time, but will look for the notes and look through the logs
Apr 01 18:29:22 <clairedelune>	thx
Apr 01 18:29:29 <mkl>	and help however i can to move things forward
Apr 01 18:29:49 <ptressel>	There was also a chat yesterday re tagging.
Apr 01 18:31:33 <pierzen|2>	We received a link for UAV imagery if you want to look. Just a small zone available presently in Port-Villa
Apr 01 18:31:43 <pierzen|2>	zoom at https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=21/-17.7458823/168.3210853
Apr 01 18:31:48 <pierzen|2>	JOSM link
Apr 01 21:12:58 <BlakeGirardot_>	skorasaurus: ping