Humanitarian OSM Team/Chat Dec 14 2011

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HOT chat on Wed Dec 14th 2011

Topic Summary: Samoa simulation, Tasking server ideas, election closing

IRC log

22:59 You have connected
22:59 The topic for #hot is: Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team
22:59 PierreB for Elcis, we can see areas where damages where
23 harry-wood' hello
23 PierreB' hi harry
23:01 harry-wood Are we having a HOT chat?
23:01 PierreB looks like
23:01 flavour It's heating up nicely ;)
23:01 flavour Evening harry-wood
23:01 flavour or harry-wood1
23:01 harry-wood
23:02 harry-wood have I got the time right this time?
23:02 IknowJoseph think so :)
23:02 PierreB 00 seconds
23:02 PierreB' 18 here
23:03 flavour' Yup, 23 UTC
23:03 harry-wood Been a busy couple of weeks for me
23:04 harry-wood not much humanitarian related work unfortunately
23:04 harry-wood Anyone here join in with the Samoa simulation?
23:04 PierreB your 75%?
23:05 harry-wood left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 480 seconds).
23:06 harry-wood1 75%?
23:06 harry-wood1 You mean this 75%?
23:06 PierreB yes
23:06 mkl1 left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 480 seconds).
23:07 harry-wood1 server funding is going pretty well
23:07 harry-wood1 not massive corporate donations this time. Just a good flow of individual well wishers
23:08 harry-wood1 OpenStreetMap (make a free map of the world!) is a good cause even without a humanitarian focus
23:08 PierreB we need to be in the medias. But how?
23:10 harry-wood1 The message is here: now in several languages
23:10 harry-wood1 so that's a URL to put out there
23:11 PierreB we where speaking of the live map we developped for the samoa simulation
23:11 PierreB
23:11 PierreB a good video on the subject formun-spider georss case tracker
23:11 PierreB
23:12 harry-wood1 So the twitter alerts appear on the map?
23:13 PierreB the twitter is fake. we typed the information in xml file
23:13 PierreB at the beginning it is all we could use
23:13 filbertkm [] entered the room.
23:13 PierreB there where timezone problems.
23:13 hyances [] entered the room.
23:13 PierreB they simulated a 12 hour blackout.
23:14 PierreB at night for samoa. during the day elsewhere.
23:15 harry-wood1 so that was simulating the way various organisations would respond without internet. Did they have some comms prior to the blackout?
23:15 harry-wood1 I mean MapAction in a real disaster do the "data scramble" thing before heading to the disaster zone
23:16 PierreB i didnt have contacts before.
23:16 harry-wood1 so I wonder if they simulated that kind of data pre-loading
23:16 PierreB dont know.
23:17 PierreB I think this information can be usefull for mappers to.
23:17 PierreB We have to look at what is relevant for us.
23:17 harry-wood1 and the tasking server. How did that work out?
23:18 harry-wood1 I took a look at this later in the day
23:18 PierreB not many mappers participated on dec 3.
23:18 PierreB but the other days, many continued to participate.
23:18 filbertkm hi
23:18 harry-wood1 I think I noticed a kind of "social" problem with it, but not sure what other people think
23:18 flavour social problem?
23:18 harry-wood1 the problem that people are quire reluctant to declare the task done
23:19 flavour Ah....too perfectionist
23:19 PierreB the task manager could report incomplete work to.
23:19 PierreB ??
23:19 flavour I see that as a lack of guidelines rather than social though?
23:19 flavour What does 'done' mean?
23:19 flavour Hi filbertkm
23:19 harry-wood1 But it's crucial for people to work through the squares and just click done on them if there's nothing left to do
23:19 PierreB guidelines are important. and we can adjust also.
23:20 harry-wood1 without that, it doesn't steer people to the squares which need work
23:20 filbertkm sadly, i wasn't available that weekend for the exercise :(
23:20 PierreB We have to understand that we can select a particular area to work.
23:20 PierreB and then from square to square, continue our job in a certain area.
23:21 harry-wood1 Yeah. Actually it locks the square assigning it to you immediately when you view it
23:21 PierreB i often do not respect entirely working in a box. after selecting the box is more an exercise of validation for me.
23:21 harry-wood1 Interesting design
23:21 AndroUser [~androirc@] entered the room.
23:22 AndroUser is now known as Seb__
23:22 harry-wood1 I wonder if it might work better having an explicit "assign it to me" step
23:22 harry-wood1 but I'm sure that's something they considered
23:23 PierreB it might be. I wanted to test that in the simulation with overview tasks.
23:23 harry-wood1 the disadvantage is that in encourages people to umm and aah about whether they want to acquire a particular square
23:23 Seb__ left the room (quit: Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:23 AndroUser2 [~androirc@] entered the room.
23:23 PierreB rivers and major roads are hard to map in a small square.
23:23 AndroUser2 is now known as Seb_mobile
23:24 PierreB you end up having a lot of ways not connected.
23:24 harry-wood1 yes that is a problem particularly for rivers I think
23:24 flavour explcit 'assign to me' sounds good
23:25 flavour Also an otpion to 'mark as done'
23:25 flavour Straight away
23:25 harry-wood1 if you remember Storm Ondoy in the phillipines I set up a bunch of openstreetbugs, one for each river valley.
23:25 harry-wood1 I think maybe that works better for rivers
23:25 PierreB yes, if we could do that.
23:26 PierreB define a relation for a valley and then use it in the task manager?
23:26 AndroUser2 [~androirc@] entered the room.
23:26 harry-wood1 Samoa had more river mapping work than major road mapping work
23:26 Seb_mobile left the room (quit: Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:26 PierreB yes. and many not completed because of clouds I think.
23:26 mdupont left the room (quit: Quit: Leaving).
23:26 AndroUser2 left the room (quit: Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:27 AndroUser2 [~androirc@] entered the room.
23:27 PierreB and major roads where already there.
23:27 harry-wood1 My experience was… I read the description of the "overview" task, "map the major roads", and looked through the overview squares…. and clicked "done" on all of them!
23:27 AndroUser2 left the room (quit: Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:27 AndroUser2 [~androirc@] entered the room.
23:28 harry-wood1 Not sure if that was helpful, but it gives us the overview picture … that all the major roads are mapped
23:28 harry-wood1 so in that sense it is helpful.
23:28 PierreB yes, but i would have prefered to have time to test this overview task.
23:28 PierreB for rivers in particular.
23:29 PierreB it might be a particular task. only rivers.
23:29 harry-wood1 talking about this one:
23:30 harry-wood1 yes I thought afterwards if it had mentioned rivers… it might have been less likely to be "done" so quickly
23:30 PierreB yes
23:30 PierreB all mapped in 20 min max.
23:30 harry-wood1 The task description is very important
23:30 PierreB yes. there was not enough information.
23:31 PierreB also when long descriptions like the Padang task
23:31 harry-wood1 I think we got better at that. The structure was good. Overview taskas and more detailed tasks
23:31 PierreB we dont see theses instructions. They are after the description.
23:31 harry-wood1 but the overview task should've mentioned rivers ….or something which wasn't already mapped :-)
23:31 PierreB yes
23:32 harry-wood1 Another idea I had was… a layer of sub-directories / categories for the tasks
23:32 PierreB i think that just adjusting layout of information in the task manager would help to see instructions.
23:32 harry-wood1 so that you click through from "samoa simulation" and see the four different tasks
23:33 PierreB yes subgroups would be good.
23:33 flavour +1
23:33 flavour Teh current frontpage will get very messy otherwise
23:33 PierreB when a mapper select a task, I suggest that instructions be repeated on that page.
23:34 PierreB to assure that mappers see instructions such as source=xxx
23:34 PierreB many mappers do not specify the source
23:34 harry-wood1 Yes.. I had that problem of needing to navigate back to get WMS urls
23:35 harry-wood1 but if navigate away from the 'square' page, you'll forget which square you picked!
23:35 PierreB it is why i suggest to repeat instructions in this page. this avoid to go elswhere
23:36 harry-wood1 This is all quite fun. I should really get involved in coding it, instead of just chatting about it :-)
23:36 PierreB these tools are very central and fine tune is important, I think.
23:37 flavour +1
23:37 harry-wood1 Anything else to chat about today?
23:37 PierreB no.
23:38 PierreB oups
23:38 harry-wood1 I still need to write about MapAction
23:38 PierreB just for infor
23:38 PierreB
23:38 harry-wood1 have a half finished blog post prepared
23:38 PierreB ok
23:39 harry-wood1 We need to decide what time is the best time of day to do a HOT chat
23:39 AndroUser2 left the room (quit: Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:39 harry-wood1' not sure if 23 is best
23:40 PierreB the problem is more with europe and asia.
23:40 harry-wood1 maybe we can do a doodle vote or something
23:40 PierreB yes
23:40 harry-wood1 for me it's very convenient. 11pm at night is when I'm generally available for OSM fun :-)
23:41 flavour A touch late for me, but OK
23:41 PierreB' for me 18 is perfect. i have time to hike during the day.
23:41 harry-wood1 It's very early in the morning for Kate in Indonesia
23:41 flavour' It's 06 in Indonesia though
23:41 flavour Right ;)

harry-wood1		guess she's not got up this time			23:41
PierreB		elections finishing today.			23:42
flavour		Too hard to get everyone...Sahana uses 2 times to try & ctahc the diff timeznoes as none are great for everyone			23:42
PierreB		results are for tomorrow?			23:42
harry-wood1		Oh yeah! We chat about hat			23:42
harry-wood1		everyone voted!?			23:42
PierreB		+1			23:43
flavour		Ah, HOT, IO was wondering which coyuntry we were talking about ;)			23:43
flavour		Yes, I voted			23:43
harry-wood1		17 minutes left I suppose			23:43
IknowJoseph		I voted - nomintated members get the OK after midnight?			23:44
harry-wood1		Unless… which timezone is the cut-off time?			23:44
harry-wood1		hmmm			23:44
IknowJoseph		as long as nobody got upset with us?			23:44
PierreB		hi joseph			23:44
harry-wood1		if any nominated members are rejected then their votes get discounted			23:44
harry-wood1		…is I think how it was going to work			23:45
flavour		I can't see anyone getting rejected...highly unlikely			23:46
IknowJoseph		ok, I filled in the Google form - haven't heard anything back, so assuming no news is good news			23:46
harry-wood1		I can check			23:46
harry-wood1		I'm actually supposed to be overseeing the election			23:46
harry-wood1		but I've been a bit busy. So mikel's been setting it all up			23:46
harry-wood1		even though he's a candidate			23:46
harry-wood1		but you can rest assured I'm keeping a close eye on him ;-)			23:47
IknowJoseph		I'm not too woried, but the form did feel like a bit of a black hole, if you were a little anxious about it			23:47
IknowJoseph		and yes, no cheaters please ;)			23:47
larso [] entered the room.			23:48
harry-wood1		I think I'll fire an email at the HOT list to give a final reminder. and I'll say the votes are accepted for another 3 hours or something			23:49
harry-wood1		ah except it's not the HOT list			23:49
harry-wood1		it's the members list			23:49
flavour		members only ;)			23:49
PierreB		in west coast of north america it would be a bit early.			23:50
harry-wood1		Yeah but then it is scheduled to close Wed 14th			23:51
harry-wood1		but I don't think it was explicitly stated what time   …or was it?			23:51
IknowJoseph		I didn't see a timezone mentioned			23:52
PierreB		no. this is a problem we have to think of. always say ugt-0 or something like this.			23:52
harry-wood1		OK. I'm going to have to go now I think.			23:53
harry-wood1		Get on with some work			23:53
PierreB		good night everybody			23:54
harry-wood1		(very busy with my normal job at the moment)			23:54
harry-wood1		The next HOT chat could be 2 weeks time			23:54
PierreB		ok			23:54
harry-wood1		Wednesday 28th Dec			23:54
harry-wood1		in between xmas and new year			23:54
harry-wood1		However I might try to discuss best times of day somehow			23:55
harry-wood1		we shall see.    Will attempt to email about it some time soon. But also the wiki page should have the plan:
harry-wood1		(it *will* have the plan)			23:56
harry-wood1		See you later then!			23:56
PierreB		see you			23:57
Thursday, 15 December 2011			00:27
k127 left the room (quit: Quit: Leaving.).			00:27
flavour left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 480 seconds).			00:32
Schuyler		oops, did I miss the party			00:55
filbertkm left the room (quit: Quit: Lost terminal).			01:00
hyances left the room (quit: Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)).			01:06
wonderchook [~wondercho@] entered the room.			01:17
IknowJoseph		@Schuyler, yes, I think so

(NOTE: on closer inspection Mikel has sent and "final reminder" email about the election already)