Humanitarian OSM Team/Chat March 14 2012

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This HOT chat took place March 14th


Mostly some info from User:Severin.menard about what's going on out in St Marc Haiti

IRC logs

wonderchook: hey everyone
wonderchook: so I think it is time?
YaleMapNinja: Howdy!
AndrewBuck: hello.
wonderchook: hey nico, your first time making this?;)
wonderchook: okay so I need someone to volunteer to log this and paste it in the wiki
wonderchook: I'm going to have to run out of here potentially midstream to go to a workshop
YaleMapNinja: Would anyone be willing to speak on behalf of HOT to a Yale Law School seminar on disaster law, March 27 2-4pm?
wonderchook: hey YaleMapNinja: did you ask john crowley?
YaleMapNinja: Previously engaged, and unfortunately
YaleMapNinja: I think at this point we'd be thrilled to have someone Skype in, and even
harry-wood [] has joined #hot
wonderchook: yeah, well unfortunately that is the middle of the night for me
harry-wood: hello
YaleMapNinja: If anyone is, but or knows someone appropriate who could participate, I can be reached at
wonderchook: hey harry-wood
harry-wood: who's chattin'?
wonderchook: hey harry-wood: we were talking about how nobody is available to go to Yale Law School to speak
wonderchook: but if someone could skype in
wonderchook: nobody on the east cost of the US is available
harry-wood: do I have an email about that?
YaleMapNinja: That would rule. We've got some eager yls students that need legal research projects for the seminar, too. Hint hint
YaleMapNinja: I think Rick contacted Kate. Ivebeen emailing with Mikel.
wonderchook: harry-wood: you do not
wonderchook: the skype thing came up just now
wonderchook: before we were looking for someone to physically go
nico1 [~user@] has joined #hot
Sev: Hi
YaleMapNinja: We'd still prefer a body, the but I think we can accommodate
harry-wood: when did you have in mind?
harry-wood: (did you chat about this all already?)
wonderchook: harry-wood well that we need someone yes
YaleMapNinja: The session is March 27. 2-4pm
harry-wood: 2-4pm EST?
wonderchook: hey rrbaker are you reading above? or Schuyler?
rrbaker: sup
rrbaker: Would love to help support anyway I can. flying back from the west coast the day before
YaleMapNinja: We've got Patrick Weil for the same day. Familiar with him?
nico [~user@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
harry-wood: He's got a wikipedia article. He must be important
YaleMapNinja: Get with me at if anyone can make the date. Live or skype
YaleMapNinja: Ha! True that!
harry-wood: Patrick Weil of "Libraries Without Borders"?
harry-wood: 6-8pm UK time which is fairly do-able for me but only by skype... so maybe rrbaker is a better bet?
rrbaker: @YMN: I'll email you tonight with some options, see if we can't work this out to do it in person; otherwise I'm sure there's options in our network who can manage virtually.
YaleMapNinja: @rrabaker.. Thanks so much.
harry-wood: What else is there to chat about?
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YaleMapNinja: Yes, I that Patrick Weil
nico1: It looks like this is set, or cclose to be set
wonderchook: MAPS!
wonderchook: =)
harry-wood: Activation working group
harry-wood: we're going to be setting up one
wonderchook: yes
harry-wood: Chatting here tomorrow
harry-wood: I don't think we presented it as an open invite yet did we?
wonderchook: no
wonderchook: you did not
harry-wood: Me Schuyler and a some other people discussed it.
harry-wood: Maybe we'll discuss who to get involved in that when we have a meeting tomorrow
harry-wood: but if anyone's super-keen already, do let me know
wonderchook: it should be an open working group
wonderchook: so why not have the meeting be open
wonderchook: at least send an email to the HOT list
nico1: I second this
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harry-wood: ok. I will do
nico1: friends, we got a meeting here in Saint marc starting, I need to leave you ; Sev is online and can give a brief headds up on hatii, if this fits with the agenda-
nico1: It has been a pleasure
wonderchook: there is no agenda
wonderchook: this is one of those freeflow things=)
wonderchook: bye nico!
Sev: maybe we could set one now ?
harry-wood: yes. topics to discuss anyone?
wonderchook: Sev: that isn't really the point
harry-wood: Sev... How's haiti going?
wonderchook: it more would be you can talk about St Marc
wonderchook: if you want to
wonderchook: or harry-wood can ask
wonderchook: ;)
Sev: actually it is running well
Sev: and OTI is really satisfied so far
harry-wood: are you User:Sev?
Sev: no
harry-wood: Severin
harry-wood: gotcha!
Sev: severin.menard
inisheer: hello
Sev: they really like the activity both regarding the data collection and the Youth involvement and commitment
Sev: that are the 2 main goals of the project
wonderchook: Sev: I'm not sure how many people know that much about it
Sev: Oh OK
wonderchook: I don't think there was a clear blog post that said what the project was
wonderchook: my internet is only working for IRC so I can't look though=)
wonderchook [~wondercho@] has quit [Quit: wonderchook]
Sev: Oh there are many
harry-wood: I was just watching a video sev posted
harry-wood: the video at the bottom of this one is in st marc?
inisheer: hello, I joined tonight because I might go to Haiti for work soon and was wondering if I could help
harry-wood: inisheer: hello.
inisheer: hello harry-wood
harry-wood: And how much d'you know about OpenStreetMap?
inisheer: a little
Sev: yes it is in Saint-Marc, as its name says ;)
harry-wood: If you know how to use the editors... could be helpful
Sev: Hi Inisheer
inisheer: I have been tracing highways and placing POIs with JOSM and Potlatch
Sev: WHere will you be based ?
inisheer: I don't know
inisheer: actually, I still don't know if I'll go, so it is somewhat premature to talk about it but I rarely have the occasion to take part to hot chats
Sev: OK, maybe you can write me a little bit more on my hotosm email about you and you rpoject in Haiti
inisheer: I should be based in Port au Prince
inisheer: ok, I'll drop you a line when I'm sure if I go or not
inisheer: harry-wood: I know very little about relations and big multipolygons, though
harry-wood: heh! You're not the only one. I try not to know anything about those
harry-wood: I like that video Sev . It looks like a kind of youth club
harry-wood: (Maybe because of the DJing)
Sev: yes for humanitarian data they do not serve so much
Sev: are there specific questions on Haiti or the OTI Saint-Marc project ?
Sev: specific ones or any general actually
harry-wood: Not really. We're all curious to know how it's going
Sev: :)
harry-wood: D'you mostly show people how to edit with JOSM? Which aspects do people struggle with the most?
Sev: Yes they edit with JOSM 99% of the time
harry-wood: I found it tough to explain how to set up imagery layers in JOSM when I ran a workshop for Pakistan floods. Something which could be made a lot easier. Progress has been made since then though
harry-wood: but it's still not as easy as it could be
Sev: it is not the fanciest GUI on Earth, for sure
Sev: you mean new ones to add in the imagery list ?
Sev: actually they had to do taht : for Padang first and then for the 02/04/2012 imagery we got from Digitalglobe on the city area
Sev: we are collecting very precise GPS points with Carlson GPS to improve the georeferencing
Sev: normally -15cm precision
harry-wood: You serving imagery tiles from a local server there?
Sev: not yet
Sev: Jean-Guilhem Cailton, who ihas been intern on this project for the last couple of weeks, has collected these GPS points and now is georeferencing the imagery
Sev: till now the 2012 DIgitalglobe has been hosted by Schuyler
harry-wood: I should learn how to do georeferencing and setting up imagery tile servers. Are you following a process similar to wonderchook in indonesia. I think she wrote a blog about it
inisheer: ok folks, it's 1 o'clock in the morning here, I wish you a good night
harry-wood: inisheer: so you're in europe huh?
inisheer: yes, Switzerland
harry-wood: I'm in the UK so it's only midnight for me
Sev: Bye Inisheer, and please send me an email if you are interested by OSM work in Haiti
Sev: I am in Brazil and it is only 9PM :)
inisheer: hopefully not for a long time any more
Sev: but you work in the hum world or the UN ?
inisheer: it would be in the UN
Sev: Switzerland = Geneva = UN ?
inisheer: well, there are lots of things in Switzerland apart the UN
harry-wood: hehe
Sev: Yes I know !
Sev: :)
inisheer: it's complicated, I finished a job today, am starting another one in April but might join the UN in Haïti instead
inisheer: anyway, I'll get in contact with you if I'm going for good
Sev: you know wich organization ?
inisheer: MINUSTAH
Sev: OK
Sev: for GIS ?
Sev: or smth not related ?
inisheer: no, I'm a lawyer
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inisheer: I would join the Bureau of inquiries
inisheer: Sev, are you related to Delphine Ménard from Wikimedia ?
Sev: OK
Sev: no
inisheer: ok, I was just wondering
Sev: so no moe questions about Haiti ?
Sev: this project apart, we are trying to extent the activity in this region
Sev: 2 main cities in the department of Artibonite
Sev: Saint-Marc and Gonaives
Sev: GOnaives will be mapped through a volunteer project run by a COSMHA advacned mapper twho born there
Sev: with our support and Fred Moine's too
Sev: Jean-Guilhem will go there to collect other GPS diff points to georefenrece a future iamgery Pleiade offered to give us
Sev: Artibonite was the most cholera affecte region
Sev: we are dealing with the NGO Acted to start a ECHO funded project to map all the most potenatially affected localities there
Sev: close to where Christorpher Colombus landed the first time in the New WOrld)
Sev: sorry
Sev: line is missing
harry-wood: Really? And to think we're only getting around to mapping the place properly now
Sev: before close etc please add: after Saint-marc, OTI may finance more a less the same project in Cap-Haitien, north of the country
Sev: voluntary projects on hiking mapping or public transportation
harry-wood: Do they finance projects to see any particular map data outputs?
Sev: and discussions with governmental agencies to use the OSM data adn tools
Sev: they finance the ETL
harry-wood: ETL?
Sev: Extract Transform Load
Sev: designed by Geofabrik
Sev: currently on a Beta version
harry-wood: Ah right. But what I meant was... the work you're doing which OTI is satisfied with...
harry-wood: what way are they satisfied? they're interested in the map outputs?
harry-wood: or they like the community engagement / training / your projects?
harry-wood: youth projects I mean
Sev: no they expect 2 things : improve the baseline data in the Saint-Marc commune + youth involvement and capacity building
harry-wood: cool. Well it's great that they're satisfied with the progress
harry-wood: and looking at the map of Saint-Marc.. it does look like good progress!
Sev: 6 teams of 6 people each, 1 car and 3 motorbikes
harry-wood: Weird patch of landuse appeared to the east. This creates an rather ugly imbalance in the rendering
Sev: they draw everything they can on imagery
Sev: on a specific tile of the tasking manager
Sev: they edit walking papers, GPS maps
Sev: and survey the day after
Sev: tasking manager only for the city itself
Sev: not for the other localities
Sev: I am evaluting the data and provide them feedbacks so that thy improve the data quality
Sev: basically I do want to edit the mistakes myself but learn them to point them out and make the corrections
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harry-wood: good idea
Sev: yes they did not tag the rural landuses properly
Sev: this is smth that will be fix
harry-wood: For the padang mapping I noticed that the 'validate' workflow could be improved to support feedback better
harry-wood: Well... the landuse tag with allotments may not be correct, but I was more thinking just the imbalance of it.
harry-wood: but that's a problem we face worldwide
Sev: it is incorrect most of time there
Sev: swittching of computer Sev1 in a few seconds
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harry-wood: e.g. cambridge at low zoom level looks quite ugly because the landuse=farm is mapped to the north but not the south:
harry-wood: some parts of California: inconsistent attack of the big brown stains
Sev1: yes I tried to make a A2 paper map of Haiti with Tilemill and data heterogeneity is an issue at small scale
pnorman: What did you use for rendering to paper?
harry-wood: I'm not sure what the best solution worldwide, but I guess in Saint-marc you'd need to just map more landuse around the city so it's balanced out a bit
Sev1: to get more "natural"areas ?
harry-wood: to get more different coloured areas natural/landuse
harry-wood: Discussion of the wider issue is here:
harry-wood: but you can solve the problem of ugly renderings in particular area by just filling in more landuse and working outwards.
Sev1: interesting
harry-wood: Anyway.... good chatting to you
harry-wood: I'm going to head off
Sev1: thank you for the chat indeed
harry-wood: Good luck with all!
harry-wood: See you later
Sev1: thanks
Sev1: see you