Humanitarian OSM Team/Chat Nov 30 2011
HOT chat on Wed Nov 30th 2011
Topic Summary: Samoa simulation, Tasking server ideas, member nominations & elections
21:04 The topic for #hot is: Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team
21:05 wonderchook hey mdupont
21:10 harry-wood left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 480 seconds).
21:12 wonderchook harry-wood1: so how was the MapAction training/scenario whatever the right term is?
21:13 harry-wood1 i could tell you… but that would use up an interesting topic of conversation
21:13 harry-wood1 for the hot chat 2 hours time
21:14 wonderchook well, I figured since their was silence I would ask
21:15 wonderchook another topic could be why I'm up at 5am
21:15 harry-wood1 hehehe
21:16 wonderchook okay unrelated topic
21:16 wonderchook it was suggested to me we ask for humanitarian.openstreetmap.org because it better explains what we do
21:17 wonderchook thoughts?
21:18 harry-wood1 sorry in the middle of something
21:18 wonderchook was more of a general question to the room
21:20 mdupont hi, has the meeting started wonderchook
21:21 mdupont that is a nice name
21:21 mdupont but hard to type
21:21 wonderchook mdupont: I think from the suggestion on the hot list there wasn't an agenda or a leader
21:21 wonderchook it is after the start time by a bit
21:21 wonderchook so I think we can declare it started
21:21 mdupont ok, i just got home
21:22 mdupont so, i want to apoligize for not having more time
21:22 wonderchook the mosque next door woke me up, otherwise I don't know if I would be up
21:22 mdupont i have a guy, he is looking for help with crisis mapping
21:22 mdupont looking for interns, java and python gis people
21:23 mdupont based out of DC, but worldwide
21:23 wonderchook doing what?
21:23 mdupont crisis mapping
21:23 wonderchook yeah, but crisis mapping to me is vague
21:23 wonderchook that could be any type of mapping
21:23 mdupont wonderchook, well you heard of immap?
21:23 wonderchook yes
21:23 mdupont that is them
21:24 mdupont mines and ordinace
21:24 wonderchook ah
21:25 mdupont i will prepare some better job posting and send them around in the next weeks
21:25 mdupont but that is just a heads up
21:26 mdupont so, i like this tasking service it is very well done
21:26 mdupont i am working on an georss feed reader
21:26 mdupont http://osmopenlayers.blogspot.com/2011/11/first-version-of-georssgml-feed-reader.html
21:26 wonderchook what will it do? I mean other than reading georss?
21:26 wonderchook ah okay
21:26 mdupont well, the idea is to make it interface to OSM editors
21:27 mdupont so you connect to my proxy servre and can download georss into josm or any other osm editor
21:29 mdupont am working on this idea, I want to be able to pull data from a variety of sources, including blog posts, git repos etc so you dont need to have a big OSM api server
21:30 mdupont just a set of rss feeds to merge together
21:30 wonderchook yep
21:30 mdupont here i wrote bout it http://osmopenlayers.blogspot.com/2011/11/current-work-in-progress-georss-feed.html
21:31 mdupont so you are in NYC? columbia uni?
21:31 mdupont or DC?
21:31 wonderchook nope, in Indonesia
21:31 wonderchook live in DC
21:31 mdupont you are in indonsia still? you know this guy who has been posting alot?
21:32 wonderchook yes
21:32 wonderchook I met with him in person
21:32 mdupont oh great, he seems very excited
21:33 You have disconnected
21:33 You have connected
21:33 The topic for #hot is: Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team
21:33 harry-wood1 left the room (quit: Read error: Connection reset by peer).
21:36 wonderchook yeah, it is sooo slow here
21:36 wonderchook but one of my interns was talking about the internal network and saying he gets everything from there
21:37 mdupont ok
21:37 mdupont i guess it makes sense to setup a rendering instance instead of copying tiles
21:38 mdupont ok, i am fading fast here.
21:39 mdupont i need to hit the bed. will be lurking here more often, nice to see you all online
21:39 wonderchook yeah, I could probably go back to bed
21:39 wonderchook maybe we do need an agenda in the future or the time is not good
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22:06 jgc Hi mdupont . Reading about your georss reader. It makes me think that openlayers has georss layer. It might also be interesting for other use cases of georss feeds (like for Pierre B?land's Samoa openlayers application, for example).
22:12 harry-wood Looks like there was a HOT meeting already
22:12 harry-wood I thought it was starting in 50 minutes time
22:13 IknowJoseph I got the time wrong again - an hour early this time though
22:13 harry-wood I got the time wrong in my email
22:14 harry-wood kind of...
22:14 harry-wood I said 11pm GMT, but then I said it was in 24 hours time
22:14 harry-wood but the time of send was 9pm
22:14 jgc harry-wood, I don't know, from your email, I thought it was supposed to be in 45 minutes
22:15 harry-wood yes. That was the intention
22:15 harry-wood hence I was not participating in the earlier conversation
22:15 harry-wood D'oh!
22:15 jgc midnight Paris time
22:15 IknowJoseph it used to be at midnight UK time, until the clocks changed
22:16 IknowJoseph so this is a treat for us Brits
22:16 jgc It's a bit late for me anyway, unfortunately (better than 1 am, but still...)
22:16 harry-wood I'm really not doing very well this evening. I was supposed to be in on the OSMF Management Team meeting, which I was sure was happening at 9pm
22:16 harry-wood so cycled home from the OSMLondon pub meet-up
22:16 harry-wood only to find I was two hours late
22:16 harry-wood at which point gravitystorm called to ask why nobody was at the pub. He was arrive late having just been at the Management Team meeting
22:17 jgc so what's the use of having Greenwich in Britain if it doesn't make international time things easier for you
22:18 IknowJoseph harry-wood I'll have to get to some London meets in the new year - still keen on London HOT meet too
22:18 IknowJoseph or in Oxford...
22:19 harry-wood yeah we should talk about that during the official HOT chat, which officially starts in 40 minutes
22:19 IknowJoseph sure thing
22:19 harry-wood not like that other HOT chat which took place 80 minutes ago
22:21 jgc You just have to declare that wonderchook was probably not really awake when she declared it open
22:31 harry-wood so… T minus 30 minutes
22:32 larso [~firstname.lastname@example.org] entered the room.
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22:42 Tim999 [~email@example.com] entered the room.
22:47 PierreB [firstname.lastname@example.org] entered the room.
22:50 harry-wood T minus 10 minutes
22:51 VBarg [~email@example.com] entered the room.
22:53 schuyl3r [~firstname.lastname@example.org] entered the room.
22:53 schuyl3r hi
22:57 harry-wood shhhh…. not chatting for another 3 minutes
22:59 andi [~email@example.com] entered the room.
23:00 harry-wood OK CHAT!
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23:01 pgiraud hi all!
23:01 harry-wood hello!
23:01 Tim999 howdy
23:01 Daniel_NTT Good morning everybody
23:01 PierreB diner time in Montreal. Wine is good.
23:02 Daniel_NTT 7 a.m. in East Indonesia - Coffee time
23:02 schuyl3r so we have this exercise on Saturday
23:03 harry-wood The Samoa simulation?
23:03 schuyl3r the same.
23:04 PierreB see map http://pierzen.dev.openstreetmap.org/hot/openlayers/samoa.htm
23:04 PierreB And think this should be the area to map. The openlayer API shows what is done so far
23:04 schuyl3r it was suggested at the UN SPIDER mtg in Geneva that it would be a good opp'ty for us to map the heck out of the country
23:05 harry-wood Is it cheating to map the heck out of it in advance?
23:06 Tim999 Isn't that 'emergency prepardness'?
23:06 IknowJoseph might take the edge off the disaster feel?
23:06 harry-wood hehehe. Indeed
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23:06 jgc aren't we mapping the heck out of the whole world anyway ?
23:06 harry-wood Indeed we are
23:07 IknowJoseph one disaster at a time
23:07 Tim999 Would there be a difference
23:07 chrisfl_ [~firstname.lastname@example.org] entered the room.
23:07 harry-wood but… maybe it's cheating to map Samoa just before the "disaster simulation"
23:07 Daniel_NTT Is there a schedule already for saturday? When does the desaster happens
23:07 Tim999 I mean will there be any additional structure to the mapping process once the simulation begins?
23:07 IknowJoseph good practice though
23:08 harry-wood The best simulation would be if we kept it quiet on all the HOT mailing lists etc until the actual event
23:08 harry-wood simulate how much community interest we can generate how quickly
23:08 IknowJoseph just like an actual disaster
23:08 harry-wood except that wouldn't work
23:08 schuyl3r wtf does yaaic not have scrollback? can someone rwco
23:09 jgc that would be more realistic indeed
23:09 schuyl3r oh it does sorry
23:09 harry-wood nothing would appear on the news about the disaster
23:09 harry-wood so it's a bit different
23:09 PierreB does someone responsible to prepare the task manager?
23:10 schuyl3r i meant, starting on Saturday
23:10 pgiraud I won't be available sorry
23:10 harry-wood Unfortunately my brother's getting married on Saturday
23:10 harry-wood I mean… not unfortunately
23:10 schuyl3r i was going to volunteer for that but i will have at most a couple hours
23:10 pgiraud but anyone can have admin rights, just ask
23:10 schuyl3r congrats, Harry
23:11 IknowJoseph but this is just like an actual disaster - I was in Turkey during the Van earthquake
23:11 IknowJoseph we won't all always be free to map
23:11 harry-wood For a real disaster I would see a tweet on my phone and fire up JOSM in the middle of the wedding ceremony. But maybe not for a simulation
23:12 Tim999 so there is a difference - the task manager is deployed?
23:12 Daniel_NTT Thats the right approach
23:12 pgiraud about the tasking manager, the only thing to do is to create one or more new jobs
23:13 PierreB what this mean exactly?
23:13 pgiraud admin users have access to a "create a job" page
23:13 Daniel_NTT I am an admin for the tasking manager already, but I cannot trust my internet connection here
23:14 harry-wood only a limited set of people have rights to create a new job
23:14 pgiraud is it slow ?
23:14 Daniel_NTT Its very slow and not stable at all...depends on the time the desaster starts
23:14 PierreB Is it a disaster?
23:15 harry-wood not yet. but it will be on Saturday
23:15 pgiraud as per the database, we have 8 people with admin rights
23:15 harry-wood who are those 8 people?
23:15 pgiraud PierreB, do you want to be granted?
23:15 harry-wood I am one
23:16 Daniel_NTT Me too
23:16 PierreB yes, pierre
23:16 Daniel_NTT I think Kate is one of them
23:16 pgiraud she is
23:17 pgiraud PierreB, your username is PierZen, right ?
23:17 PierreB yes
23:17 pgiraud so, you're now an admin
23:17 PierreB thanks.
23:17 pgiraud you can try creating a new job
23:18 pgiraud and then, don't hesitate to delete it
23:18 harry-wood hehehe
23:19 pgiraud for the simulation, I would maybe give the following advice:
23:19 harry-wood It's sort of an interesting situation, that in theory a few clicks to create a new job on there could mean lots of people spending hours working on the map
23:19 pgiraud create seperate jobs for seperate features to map
23:19 pgiraud for example: create a job with large tiles to map main roads
23:20 pgiraud then a second one to map the residential roads
23:20 Daniel_NTT Good idea
23:20 pgiraud maybe an other one with smaller tiles for buildings
23:20 mkl [~email@example.com] entered the room.
23:20 PierreB y agree. pierre could you send me the procedure to connect as administrator.
23:21 pgiraud nothing specific to do
23:21 harry-wood yes. The way the tasks are set up is pretty crucial
23:21 mkl (hi everyone -- is there a log i can catch up on)
23:21 pgiraud just connect to tasks.hotosm.org
23:21 harry-wood hi mkl
23:21 pgiraud you should see a "create a new job" at the bottom of the "jobs" page
23:21 pgiraud don't you ?
23:22 harry-wood I can paste in a log. It's a big one because the meeting accidentally started 2 hours ago!
23:22 PierreB ok I found it.
23:23 schuyl3r can we just use the Bing imagery?
23:23 IknowJoseph will there be donated imagery? as disasters often come with?
23:23 PierreB It seems there are no other one. If you look at the map it is high res and cloudy in some areas.
23:24 mkl harry-wood: throw it up on pastie?
23:24 PierreB Youve not only took wine
23:24 schuyl3r hmm. i can ask our State Department contact about getting Digital Globe
23:24 harry-wood http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team/Chat_Nov_30_2011
23:24 harry-wood ^The log so far
23:25 mkl isn't this supposed to be part of the somoa simulation though? no imagery provider taking part?
23:25 schuyl3r under Nextview of course
23:25 Tim999 or isn't that one of the things the simulation is for - to go through the motions of asking for the imagery?
23:26 schuyl3r I'll email right now, and we'll find out
23:26 PierreB good news.
23:26 jgc so harry-wood, I notice your log removes smileys
23:27 Tim999 as someone who is still new to all this - is there any overview description of the features that would be mapped ideally - both pre and post incident
23:27 harry-wood Oh dear… No smileys
23:27 schuyl3r not that i know of. depends partly on what imagery we can get.
23:27 PierreB where back to the future.
23:28 Daniel_NTT Shouldn't we start getting additional imagery on saturday as well
23:28 Tim999 so we just map anything we want or pick up a job from the tasking manager?
23:28 PierreB the thing is that we only have one day.
23:28 harry-wood Tim999 I think ideally the job description would be quite specific about it
23:29 harry-wood but often its just a case of "map what you can manage to see in the imagery"
23:29 Tim999 got it
23:29 harry-wood We should be specific about it really though
23:29 IknowJoseph people often seem to start on roads and the like, but when they're finished people map whatever they can
23:30 harry-wood because otherwise you get a patch of not-very-much and you dont know whether you're supposed to be squinting at it and looking for possible locations of streams… or just marking it as done
23:30 PierreB people have different habilities. When we come with the task manager, and part of the job is already done, it is faster.
23:30 PierreB Except if people trac ways at high zoom level.
23:30 Daniel_NTT Maybe we can put it in the description part of the different tasks in the tasking manager
23:31 PierreB yes
23:31 harry-wood Ideally a task description would also include an example of several types of completed squares
23:31 harry-wood I suppose
23:32 pgiraud those are interesting feedbacks
23:32 PierreB Yes this would be good.
23:32 schuyl3r left the room (quit: Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:32 pgiraud don't forget to write down everything that don't match what you expect it to do
23:33 harry-wood It's an area where people can help refine the descriptions… makes me think scraping the descriptions from the OSM wiki could be a better way
23:33 Tim999 is there a plan for any communication channels open for HOT volunteers during the simulation - oh I guess the HOT mailing list?
23:33 PierreB would it be good to have some some people work from KeepRight Reports to make corrections? May be part of validation process?
23:34 PierreB Hot would be the best
23:34 pgiraud is KeepRight updated often enough?
23:34 harry-wood PierreB always good to fix any KeepRight bugs, but you dont get them where there *is* no data of course
23:35 VBarg left the room (quit: Quit: CGI:IRC).
23:35 harry-wood pgiraud: not really no. Just weekly on the default set-up
23:36 harry-wood Could deploy a turbo-charged keet-right for a disaster response
23:37 PierreB that would be good
23:38 jgc Since the crisis is supposed to be caused by a cyclone, in reality, meteo forecast could give some advance warning. There was a storm surge simulation, based on simulated forecast: http://new.gdacs.org/Cyclones/stormsurge.aspx?eventid=10002 . It also includes places with population that could be of interest to OSM
23:39 PierreB how to work with this. Have POIs of places?
23:40 jgc I don't know about the licence. A recurring question. Could be part of realistic exercise...
23:41 PierreB pierreg : first we define task as private, and later public?
23:41 Daniel_NTT Who can access it when they are private
23:42 PierreB the administrators I suppose.
23:42 pgiraud nope
23:42 PierreB ugh
23:42 pgiraud admin can list the users who have access to a private job
23:42 pgiraud PierreB, don't hesitate to create a public job
23:43 pgiraud I hope I can have a draft/published state for jobs in the future
23:43 PierreB the best would be for the task to be public saterday only
23:44 pgiraud as you want
23:44 pgiraud but creating a job is not that difficult, is it?
23:44 Daniel_NTT Its very easy
23:44 PierreB i will try in islands near it
23:45 springmeyer_ [~dane@173-160-181-142-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] entered the room.
23:46 PierreB Progress Map?
23:47 Tim999 what would that be then?
23:47 Daniel_NTT we should link to the Task Manager Wiki Page in the task descriptions (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Tasking_Manager)
23:48 Daniel_NTT Mapping progress on a timeline
23:48 pgiraud oh, yes sorry, this chart is only visible for admin users
23:49 PierreB or we could simply have a before and after map comparison, since the task manager shows some kind of progression with areas
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23:50 harry-wood What other topics should we discuss?
23:50 jgc pgiraud, could I be admin too, I am curious
23:50 harry-wood mkl: should we discuss members and board elections?
23:50 harry-wood anyone have any questions about those things?
23:51 IknowJoseph there's another week or so before the deadline?
23:52 harry-wood (December 7) for confirmation and nominations
23:52 IknowJoseph I've had a go at canvassing
23:53 Daniel_NTT I am off then...till saturday
23:53 schuyl3r [~firstname.lastname@example.org] entered the room.
23:53 harry-wood These are the existing "members" : http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team/Members
23:53 mkl yes, December 7
23:53 mkl confirmation is pretty much done
23:54 mkl nominations ... we brainstormed a few more within the Board ... as of yesterday there were only 3
23:54 mkl and board elections too ...
23:54 mkl nominations done by december 7
23:55 harry-wood so this is nominations for new "members" you're talking about?
23:56 harry-wood still gets confused
23:56 mkl new members. and candidates for the board. both
23:56 harry-wood right
23:56 mkl also discussion of bylaws
23:57 Tim999 I have one last question on samoa - is HOT doing the mapping exercise in parallel to the simulation or is there a point of connection with the Samoan authorities / exercise organizers or other groups involved in the exercise... a simulated command center/tent, if you will, that HOT has some representation in?
23:57 harry-wood Ah yes "We’ll include approval of the bylaws with the election, by December 14. It will take a majority of members to accept the new bylaws."
23:58 Daniel_NTT left the room (quit: Quit: CGI:IRC).
23:58 Tim999 you can swing back to me after
23:58 PierreB there are facebook and twitter pages
23:58 PierreB http://twitter.com/#!ALERTSsp
23:59 PierreB http://www.facebook.com/pages/Samoa-Cyclone-sim/150452911721179
23:59 PierreB that is all I know so far
0:00 Thursday, 1 December 2011
0:00 Tim999 super
0:01 harry-wood I wonder if MapAction is taking part in the simulation
0:01 harry-wood I was with MapAction the weekend before last
0:01 harry-wood I need to report back properly on this. Apologies for not doing so yet
0:02 Tim999 I met Nigel in Geneva for the first time. Much fun.
0:02 PierreB GISCorps will participate with us. No details yet.
0:02 harry-wood some photos here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/harrywood/tags/mapactionnov2011/
0:03 schuyl3r i believe that MapAction will be participating
0:03 Tim999 what was the event?
0:03 Tim999 building resilience to a good British fog?
0:03 harry-wood I've started writing a blog about it, including some thoughts on difference between our organisations, and how we might work together
0:03 harry-wood hehe yeah. lots of fog
0:04 schuyl3r we should coordinate with them before Sat
0:04 harry-wood OK
0:04 harry-wood well one thing we discussed, was the alert system they use
0:05 harry-wood they have text message alerts, and I need to get back to them with a set of four or five people's mobile numbers to have added to that
0:05 Tim999 look forward to reading the blog
0:05 PierreB we could have a task with one area describing all somoa with a message, a typhon arrive, be prepared
0:06 harry-wood I said if they're doing a "data scramble" prior to deployment i.e. they've decided to deploy… then that should probably be an automatic "activation" of HOT
0:07 harry-wood although it's tricky because there's probably no point activating in an area where we have zero imagery
0:07 larso left the room (quit: Quit: larso).
0:07 PierreB we have bing imagery
0:08 harry-wood yeah (=landsat in many areas)…. we always have *some* imagery. This is true
0:08 jgc harry-wood, let's get drones !
0:08 mkl left the room (quit: Quit: Leaving.).
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0:08 harry-wood Drones would be good
0:08 PierreB Zoom in on bing imagery in Samoa.
0:09 PierreB I am volunteer to go with a drone.
0:10 harry-wood pretty good imagery in samoa
0:11 Tim999 yes
0:11 pgiraud off to sleep
0:11 pgiraud bye
0:12 harry-wood bye pgiraud
0:12 jgc bye
0:12 harry-wood I may head off soon too
0:12 Tim999 definitley can see roads and buildings pretty well
0:12 pgiraud left the room (quit: Quit: Quitte).
0:12 schuyl3r left the room (quit: Read error: Connection reset by peer).
0:12 Tim999 supper time for me
0:12 PierreB 24 to 30 degrees all year
0:13 PierreB except when typhons
0:13 harry-wood will the simulation include "post-disaster" imagery?
0:14 PierreB we have no details so far of the simulation
0:14 PierreB kate could give more answers
0:15 IknowJoseph good point, will we be mapping wrecked buildings, blocked roads, shelters, treatment stations?
0:15 PierreB i dont think that we plan to be that sophisticated
0:15 harry-wood no
0:16 harry-wood that would be quite a challenge to set up
0:16 jgc destroying fake houses to be imaged by simulated satellites? This is getting a bit on the edge, no?
0:16 Tim999 FYI Standby Taskforce has a spreadsheet that is divided into timeslots starting Dec 2nd (Samoa time) - 9pm gmt
0:17 PierreB than we should follow http://twitter.com/#!ALERTSsp
0:17 IknowJoseph well, I'm sure there could be some damaged:fake take in osm that could be removed after the event, if people wanted to use data that had some element of disaster to it
0:17 Tim999 11 am Samoa time
0:17 IknowJoseph tag*
0:17 jgc So SBTF is going to activate? i'd be interested in learning more about how they work.
0:18 Tim999 yes - no info yet - just able to sign up for the deployment/team
0:19 Tim999 I may have one foot in each camp this weekend. We'll see...
0:20 Tim999 easy to sign up and take a look around http://blog.standbytaskforce.com/apply-now/
0:20 Tim999 ok I need to go. Thanks for setting the chat up Harry.
0:21 larso [~email@example.com] entered the room.
0:21 jgc thanks for the info Tim999
0:22 Tim999 left the room.
0:25 ealguides [~firstname.lastname@example.org] entered the room.
0:26 harry-wood Good chat guys
0:26 harry-wood see you all later
0:26 PierreB good by
0:26 ealguides night Harry