Proposal talk:Fashion accessory shop

Overlap with shop=gift

Resolved: A distinction from shop=gift has been added to the proposal. –SelfishSeahorse (talk) 16:28, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

Many of those accessories are also sold by gift shops. Prices and quality may differ, but there's a lot of product overlap here. I suppose one of the main distinctions is that text/images on items in a gift shop will tend to display town/locality/province (Welsh dragon or Cardigan dolphin or some such) whilst text/images on items in a fashion shop will be display some brand name (Nike/Hermes/some major football team). Items in a fashion shop are branded by companies who are famous for being famous whereas items in a gift shop tend to be mementos of an area. --Brian de Ford 16:54, 10 March 2019‎ (UTC)

Thanks for your hint! In my opinion, differentiating fashion accessories shops from gift shops shouldn't be a problem, but i've added a short description of shop=gift to Differentiation from other shop tags nevertheless. –SelfishSeahorse (talk) 22:04, 10 March 2019 (UTC)

PS: Selling items that display a brand name or logo is not a requirement for fashion accessory shops (see e.g. the shop chains Accessorize, I am, Six or Claire's). --SelfishSeahorse (talk) 10:52, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

I wasn't stating hard and fast rules for distinguishing fashion accessory shops from gift shops. I was trying to point out that when you say that fashion accessory shops sell, for example, key fobs that so do gift shops. The key fobs may come off the same production line but differ in the text/image on them and the price. The same applies to all of the items you listed as being sold by fashion accessory shopsː they are also sold by gift shops. Most, if not all, of them are also sold in "pound shops" ("dollar stores") even cheaper.

I don't think a list of products sold is a good way of telling if a shop sells fashion accessories. The thing about fashion accessories is that they are ̽fashionable (which usually means expensive and clearly marked as being an expensive brand). Fashion is about exclusivity, not popularity. Once a fashionable item becomes popular it ceases to be fashionable. Fashion is about conspicuous display of wealth, and once the masses buy them you cease to stand out as being able to afford more than most people.

And yes, there's "high fashion" (mind-bogglingly expensive, so the ultra rich can display their wealth to everyone else) and low fashion (so the middle class can display their wealth to the lower class). And there are gift shops (so the lower class can inform other lower-class people where they went for their holiday). And all of them could be selling a product made on the same production line but with different branding at different prices. --Brian de Ford 12:35, 11 March 2019‎ (UTC)

You are right, gift shops may sell the same items as fashion accessory shops. However they often also sell other items, which fashion accessory shops don't sell, such as postcards, cuddly toys, statues, mugs, or preservable food. The same is true for variety stores: they sell fashion accessories, but also other items, such as toys, interior decoration articles or stationery articles. I tried to improve the section Differentiation from other shop tags stating that fashion accessories aren't the primary focus of these other shops. Is it better now?

I don't quite agree with your interpretation of fashion or fashionable respectively. In my understanding (which corresponds to dictionaries [1] [2]), "fashion" means a popular or prevalent style (mainly) in clothing in a certain period of time. And fashion doesn't necessarily mean expensive – just think of chains such as H&M, Zara or C&A. –SelfishSeahorse (talk) 19:54, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

Yes, that's better. I have come to the realization that the fashion accessory shop is defined not just by what it sells but by what it doesn't sell.

Yes, "fashion" is sometimes defined as "popular" but the question is "with whom?" Consider haute coutureː it's haute only as long as it is limited in popularity. Once the copy shops duplicate it, it is no longer fashionable amongst the rich. The same thing occurs as you move down the fashion food chainː when people you look down upon start wearing whatever it is you're wearing, it's time for new clothes. C&A is almost at the bottom of the fashion food chain (after that comes really cheap knock-offs sold in street markets by unscrupulous traders). "Fashion" doesn't really mean "popularity" it means "cachet." Which is why it becomes popular, and once it becomes popular it stops being fashionable. [This paragraph is way off topic. As well as being very cynical.]

Damnit, "edit source" is no longer "edit source" but "clever editor that won't do what I want. I can't get the indent to work. --Brian de Ford 21:14, 11 March 2019‎ (UTC)

Maybe some people behave like you describe, but there are certainly also other people that buy the same style of clothes others are wearing in order to conform to them. By the way, do you think that shop=clothing_accessories were a better tag name?

Indent didn't work because (strangely enough) you entered MODIFIER LETTER TRIANGULAR COLON characters instead of normal colons. –SelfishSeahorse (talk) 21:47, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, clothing̠̟̜ is better than fashion. Fashion is more opinion than fact and we all differ as to where we draw the line between clothing accessories that are fashionable and which are utilitarian. The downside is that key fobs and umbrellas aren't clothing.

Damned editor won't even let me type an underscore. At least it let me type colons (I had to type two to get one, and they weren't real colons, as these won't be either) but it will NOT let me type an underscore at all.̠ There's some javascript automagically messing around with what I type. It didn't do that in the past, but in the past it offered "edit source" and "magic editor." Now there's only "edit source" but it gives me "magic editor." Grrrrrrr. --Brian de Ford 22:11, 11 March 2019‎ (UTC)

Maybe shop=fashion_accessories is still better as it is a common term, whereas clothing accessories could be unclear.

It seems like you have activated some IPA input method. –SelfishSeahorse (talk) 21:20, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, I think it will have to be shop=fashion_accessories because, bad as it is, there's nothing better. Unless... Possibly better might be shop=clothing + clothes=accessories. Yeah, they're not all clothes, but it sort of completes the picture of a woman's clothes shop, a child's clothes shop, etc. And fixes the problem of what to do when a shop sells both clothes and accessories (which many clothes shops do). But it's still sub-optimal.

Gah, how did IPA get turned on??? Thanks for the clue. After a lot of looking around I found the thingy to turn it off. I can now type what I want to type, instead of what the stupid IPA input thinks I want to type. --Brian de Ford 22:16, 12 March 2019‎ (UTC)

Sorry for my late reply. I nevertheless prefer shop=fashion_accessories over shop=clothing + clothes=accessories because shop=clothes is currently defined as "a shop to get clothes", but you can't buy clothes at a fashion accessory shop (unless perhaps for stockings, scarfs, gloves or caps). Besides, the clothes=* key is a mess – it mixes type of clothes, gender, age and purpose – and likely needs a replacement to be useable. –SelfishSeahorse (talk) 08:14, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

Duplicate with shop=fashion?

I usually map this type of stores as shop=fashion, I always thought that is what this tag refers to. --AgusQui (talk) 17:48, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

The shop=fashion tag is problematic as it has never been clearly defined. In my understaning, a fashion shop sells the latest style of clothes and often also accessories, and thus is equivalent to shop=clothes + clothes=fashion or shop=clothes without specialised clothing types (like clothes=workwear|traditional|schoolwear|outdoor|...). Note that the picture on Tag:shop=fashion also shows clothes. (By the way, only recently there was a discussion about shop=fashion on the tagging mailing list.) In contrast to a clothes shop, a fashion accessory shop only sells fashion accessories and no clothes. Regards --SelfishSeahorse (talk) 18:46, 25 March 2019 (UTC)

Then this clarification would be good in the fashion wiki, and also in the section Differentiation from other shop tags of this proposal --AgusQui (talk) 00:54, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

I'm afraid, but as the vote is already under way, i can't change the proposal. But if the proposal gets approved, i'll clarify this on the feature page. However, i tried to improve the definition and warning on Tag:shop=fashion. --SelfishSeahorse (talk) 10:13, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

Why not shop=clothing_accessory

The word 'fashion' can mean many different things to many different people. Bags, umbrellas, etc can all be taken as clothing accessories. Warin61 (talk) 22:29, 26 March 2019 (UTC)