Humanitarian OSM Team/Chat Aug 30 2012
HOT CHat on Wed Aug 29th
Topics
- Tutorships
- Vote on HOT's Bylaws and Articles of Amendment
IRC log:
00:01 : wonderchook [~wondercho@202.129.187.27] entered the room.
00:01 harry-wood1: Hello HOT chatters
00:01 : CGI977 [~baf75537@shenron.openstreetmap.org] entered the room.
00:01 : CGI977 left the room (quit: ).
00:01 : Severin [~baf75537@shenron.openstreetmap.org] entered the room.
00:01 wonderchook: Hello!
00:01 IknowJoseph: hi all
00:01 Severin: Hi
00:02 harry-wood1: Where is everybody these days? I loose track
00:02 harry-wood1: I'm in boring old London
00:02 IknowJoseph: Oxford (not too exciting)
00:03 wonderchook: Jakarta, I'm not sure if it is exciting;)
00:03 skorasaurus: howdy.
00:04 skorasaurus: is there a chat tonight ? I saw the post on mailing list and didn't understand whether it was happening or not.
00:04 Severin: Salvador, remote work
00:04 harry-wood1: It's happening right now skorasaurus
00:04 Severin: Kate told me the new scheduling will be deiced for next chat
00:05 Severin: so it is normal time today
00:05 harry-wood1: Bit late for you?
00:05 IknowJoseph: yes, sorry all, should've confirmed tonight as usual
00:06 wonderchook: well, I think we should do another doodle
00:06 IknowJoseph: sounds good :)
00:07 harry-wood1: I'll do one right now
00:07 Severin: Agenda: Tutorships Vote on HOT's, Bylaws and Articles of Amendment
00:07 Severin: I would also suggest: Cpacities page, and Intership roster
00:10 harry-wood1: Is the change to the bylaws some largely uninteresting quirk of D.C. laws?
00:10 harry-wood1: Or are there some interesting highlights?
00:11 : nico [~29528473@shenron.openstreetmap.org] entered the room.
00:11 wonderchook: harry-wood1: if you look almost nothing is changed
00:11 wonderchook: if we had waited for the vote until January it would have avoided this
00:12 wonderchook: it is just a quirk in out membership structure that the members have to approve all changes so the only way to do this is vote
00:12 harry-wood1: yeah. that's what I thought
00:14 IknowJoseph: thanks for the confirmation - i only added it to the list to get a quick idea of the changes (or lack of!)
00:15 wonderchook: well, I included the redlined document
00:15 wonderchook: so if people look through that it shows how few it is
00:17 harry-wood1: yeah redline document didn't seem to show the changes to me
00:18 harry-wood1: I've set up a doodle. How does this look?: http://doodle.com/m2pyhugb8gyys5xu
00:18 wonderchook: maybe it was so few;)
00:18 IknowJoseph: downloaded the doc now instead of looking at it through Google - I can see the changes now!
00:19 harry-wood1: ah yeah maybe downloading is the trick
00:19 harry-wood1: I spaced out the doodle poll slots every 2 hours. If people fill that in we'll get a feel when people are more available I suppose
00:19 wonderchook: yeah, I think that is good
00:21 harry-wood1: added himself
00:22 : jaakkoh [~jaakkoh@186.190.5.179] entered the room.
00:22 harry-wood1: So let's talk about Tutorships? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team/Tutorships
00:24 IknowJoseph: looks like a great idea
00:24 Severin: specifically created for all the people in boring old cities from Western Countries :)
00:24 : nico left the room (quit: Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)).
00:25 wonderchook: ha, well. I can see people joining from anywhere
00:25 IknowJoseph: how much time do you imagine these bored Westerners would be putting into the project?
00:25 wonderchook: this isn't really isn't different than the internships we've been previously doing
00:26 wonderchook: the difference is having a roster so that when things come up we know who is already interested
00:26 wonderchook: instead of doing a call each time
00:26 wonderchook: oops, wait that was the wrong topic
00:26 wonderchook: ignore me=D
00:26 Severin: no we are talking about tutorships, not internships
00:26 Severin: ah you figured it out
00:26 wonderchook: honestly, if it is a one to one tutoriship I don't think it would be that much time
00:27 wonderchook: a hour or so a week
00:27 IknowJoseph: would they have set start & end points, goals, etc?
00:28 Severin: yes it has to be flexible: eg some people would be able to dedicate one hour or so a week for an online meeting
00:28 Severin: others will prefer some specific support throught the Country list
00:29 wonderchook: well, I mostly meant by a hour a week meaning an average
00:29 wonderchook: for example right now I answer random questions from email/FB/twitter/etc and I doubt it takes more than a hour a week
00:29 wonderchook: so if it was focused on one person or one country I don't see why it woudl be different
00:30 Severin: lsupporting local community's project as they would know what they actually aim at
00:30 wonderchook: unless you were going to help someone really indepth learn something like map rendering or programming
00:30 : jaakkoh left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 480 seconds).
00:30 : humberto_yances [~humberto@181.133.18.48] entered the room.
00:31 Severin: yes especially for English improvement - private joke for Kate
00:32 Severin: but I put some thoughts about the implicit commitment it would impy
00:32 : nico [~29528473@shenron.openstreetmap.org] entered the room.
00:33 Severin: I mean if you tell a community you become a tutor, it would hard for them to understand you just vanished some day without any good-bye
00:34 Severin: some blogging byt the tutors about the ongoing experience would also be good
00:34 IknowJoseph: how many tutors at any point are you imagining?
00:36 harry-wood1: To be honest reading the description I naturally imagines something more committing, perhaps involving travel (and I wondered what the difference with internships was)
00:36 Severin: I did not make any count so far
00:37 harry-wood1: So maybe it should be clearer near the top, that this is mostly talking about internet-based answering of questions etc. Altogether more casual and less committing than a field trip
00:37 IknowJoseph: harry-wood1: It's that level of commitment I was trying to work out - was also thinking about travel, not to mention things like language requirements
00:37 wonderchook: yeah, I saw this as being a virtual effort
00:38 Severin: for me it is a commitment but as it lies on a voluntary basis, we cannot really force people to support a community on the long range
00:38 Severin: yes it is a remote effort
00:38 Severin: but I agree tutorship could be the extension of tutorship
00:39 nico: volounteership you mean
00:39 harry-wood1: hi nico
00:39 IknowJoseph: can't force people, no, but you could create set goals (either time based or results) and say that people pass their requirements of being a tutor if the goals are met
00:39 Severin: but for interns, we would need people efficient in the field, pontetially on rough environment
00:39 nico: hi all-
00:39 IknowJoseph: hey Nico
00:40 Severin: you mean a kind of exam for being a tutor?
00:40 IknowJoseph: not really
00:40 IknowJoseph: but you say that a tutor has completed their obligations if their student can demonstrate X Y & Z
00:40 Severin: actually I think the tuorship would be framed by the people who already know these communities
00:40 harry-wood1: The mystery of how to motivate volunteers is a indeed a deep and troublesome one …*said in a yoda voice*
00:41 nico: yep for sev
00:41 Severin: yes, and the force cannot even be with us
00:41 nico: I also think harry that the relation that one can grow with someone in another country is a really strong incentive
00:41 IknowJoseph: well, why do people mentor GSoC projects?
00:41 harry-wood1: Being a named tutor for a particular community would be motivating I think
00:41 wonderchook: well, see I think GSoC projects are different from this
00:41 wonderchook: well depending on what someone or a community wanted to learn
00:42 wonderchook: I was viewing it more as a resource
00:42 wonderchook: for example if you were to have a "penpal" you wouldn't just say "okay we've said enough" and then stop
00:42 wonderchook: so the relationship would grow
00:43 harry-wood1: or you get bored and don't quite get around to replying :-/
00:43 harry-wood1: remembers some failed penpalling
00:43 IknowJoseph: that's the thing - people start things with good intentions...
00:44 IknowJoseph: not that I'm being pesimistic, just trying to work the idea out in my head :)
00:44 wonderchook: ha, well. maybe the guiding principle is "don't be a jerk"
00:44 wonderchook: ;)
00:45 wonderchook: meaning disappear
00:45 wonderchook: but what if there was a tutors mailing list
00:45 wonderchook: or a monthly chat
00:45 wonderchook: GSoC for example has a mentors mailing list where people discuss issues of mentorship
00:46 nico: why not keeping this within the hot list and move to a separate list if the tarffic is too big
00:46 wonderchook: the reason I was suggesting a separate list was to make people feel "special"
00:46 nico: it's likely that most of the stuffs brought up through those tutorships will be of interest for the rest of the team
00:46 wonderchook: and now I've shown my American up bringing, let's give everyone a trophy as well;)
00:47 nico: since you are really in front of issues faced daily when connecting locally
00:47 IknowJoseph: are there similar tutorships for non-DRR OSM groups?
00:47 wonderchook: not that I'm aware
00:48 IknowJoseph: i'm guessing that there are people that have signed up to OSM-somewhere-else lists and are helping from unexciting Western cities, however
00:49 Severin: why not on the countries list
00:49 wonderchook: oh yeah that happens naturally
00:49 wonderchook: I figured the actual tutoriship would happen on the countries lists
00:49 wonderchook: I just meant a meta list for tutors
00:49 Severin: Sen-talk, Haiti talk etc
00:50 IknowJoseph: sure, ok
00:50 Severin: oh OK
00:50 harry-wood1: could be a way of making tutors feel special
00:50 IknowJoseph: just thinking about how this fits with wider the OSM
00:50 harry-wood1: we have a similar challenge with HOT members in general. making them feel special I mean
00:51 Severin: I agree
00:51 harry-wood1: My idea for this was to list them all the website, with bios
00:51 harry-wood1: that's attractive for some poeple more than others though I suppose
00:51 IknowJoseph: all members or tutors?
00:51 wonderchook: yeah, I do think we should start using the website to make people feel special
00:52 wonderchook: well, all members on the website would be good
00:52 harry-wood1: I was thinking all members
00:52 harry-wood1: but tutors too
00:52 wonderchook: people could list tutorship as one of their activities
00:52 wonderchook: or something
00:52 IknowJoseph: i suppose there's not too much membership churn so it would be simple enough to keep maintained
00:53 harry-wood1: Well… membership churn would become more of a problem. As in… if a member disappears, they'd still be listed there
00:53 : sbook left the room (quit: Quit: sbook).
00:54 harry-wood1: So then my other idea would be *require* some sort of update from each member every 3 months.
00:54 wonderchook: well, we have yearly membership nominations and asking if people want to still be members
00:54 harry-wood1: ah right. we're doing that already hey?
00:54 IknowJoseph: we used to make all the staff at work feel special by listing everyone on the website - it turned out to be a lot of trouble
00:54 wonderchook: yes
00:54 wonderchook: because people disappear
00:54 harry-wood1: IknowJoseph: trouble?
00:54 : jgc_ [~jgc@190.115.187.165] entered the room.
00:54 wonderchook: since now there isn't really a definition of being a member it is weird anyway
00:55 IknowJoseph: harry-wood1: trouble is probably a strong word. Really it was a lot of work. HR & the web people never communicated. HOT is a bit smaller though.
00:57 : sbook [~skyebook@static-71-183-239-154.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] entered the room.
00:59 harry-wood1: yeah. lot of work. we'd want people edit their own bios
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01:00 wonderchook: yeah, so I asked the drupal dude to make profiles
01:01 wonderchook: so people would just need website accounts to edit their profiles
01:01 IknowJoseph: yearly updates / renewals as part of the membership process would presumably stop it getting stale
01:04 harry-wood1: You must make at least one edit to your bio otherwise you're kicked out :-)
01:05 harry-wood1: Doodle poll take 2 > http://doodle.com/9bqvz7z8uar95ptk
01:05 harry-wood1: Sorry. This time with timezones enabled
01:05 Severin: I think we should provide a template and ask the tutors to talk more about the tutorships. For a complete bio, the OSM account is more indicated
01:05 harry-wood1: Plus I've included zero o'clock
01:09 : flavour [~Fran@209.144.63.76] entered the room.
01:09 harry-wood1: So anyway. Tutorship idea seems good to me
01:10 IknowJoseph: Capacities page and Internship roster?
01:11 harry-wood1: kat only just emailed about that
01:11 harry-wood1: kate I mean…. or do I mean wonderchook?
01:11 : }flavour{ [~Fran@209.144.63.76] entered the room.
01:11 wonderchook: Severin emailed about it a couple weeks ago
01:11 wonderchook: but nobody noticed
01:12 wonderchook: basically we are looking for help with editing
01:12 wonderchook: =D
01:14 harry-wood1: I'm all set up to talk at that amsterdam conference by the way
01:15 Severin: just one thing that does not appear so far in the tutorship wiki page
01:15 Severin: tutorship has to be coordinated
01:16 wonderchook: harry-wood1: sweet!
01:16 Severin: by country
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01:17 Severin: this is what I suggested a guide knowing the country and its OSM community
01:18 nico: I think this is real valid point
01:19 Severin: and, time commitment apart, we can also propose various kind of support for the communities: OSM techniques, blogging/communication, etc.
01:19 nico: I also think it might make sense periodically when digesting the experience and fbk from the tutorship for the whole team to look at how things are being done if weird or wrong
01:20 Severin: eg would not be very useful to have three very techy tutors for one coutnry
01:20 Severin: yes definitely, it is a experimental phase
01:20 nico: as well as for those side techniques connect local osm folks to other VTC groups able to hlep out
01:20 harry-wood1: Just noticing the Senegal wiki page has a bit more info now: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Senegal well done skorasaurus
01:20 Severin: and has a subpage regarding the current floods
01:21 nico: there is also a page set up by Will about the flooding there
01:21 nico: Just a few words on this
01:21 skorasaurus: np.
01:22 nico: The 2012 floods which happened a couple of days ago are important and bigger than the last event dated 2009 which required hunm assistance
01:22 nico: As you can read in http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Senegal/Flooding_2012
01:22 nico: The sen gov asked some support to OCHA
01:23 nico: I am juggling the Tech Camp and reaching out to hum and gov actors to identify the needs and where we can help out specifically
01:23 nico: This Sat 1-Sept we will be organizing a mapping party on flood mapping
01:23 wonderchook: yeah, I saw the tweets
01:24 wonderchook: btw, it would be good if we posted information about it on Facebook/Twitter as well
01:24 nico: This being said the Bing imagery over Dakar is good, and baseline data helps , so tracing is definitively helpful
01:24 nico: while we are figuring out more precise needs
01:25 nico: Will listed the areas msotly hit
01:25 wonderchook: okay well, if the plan is to have people activate I would suggest making tasks and asking for help
01:26 wonderchook: I mean other than in IRC
01:26 wonderchook: others here can do those things as well
01:26 nico: sure
01:26 nico: but since we are here, I am using this channel
01:26 nico: droping a line on HOT and stepping out
01:26 nico: thanks for the chat and sorry for the interruption
01:27 nico: Though tutors for active sen mappers mapping in floods can be a useful asset as well
01:28 wonderchook: okay, so who is going to do something about this?
01:29 wonderchook: dropping and line and stepping out in IRC is hard because only people reading this chat will see it.
01:29 wonderchook: skorasaurus could you send an email to the HOT list?
01:29 skorasaurus: wonderchook: yes, I will soon.
01:32 : humberto_yances left the room (quit: Read error: Operation timed out).
01:35 harry-wood1: Sorry. I was away. Back now
01:35 harry-wood1: although time for bed for me
01:35 : jaakkoh [~jaakkoh@186.190.5.179] entered the room.
01:35 harry-wood1: I will email the HOT list with a link to the doodle poll for arranging future HOT chats
01:36 wonderchook: breakfast time for me!
01:36 wonderchook: unless there are any other topics?
01:37 skorasaurus: and dinner for me. :)
01:37 IknowJoseph: that's covered the schedule, I think
01:37 IknowJoseph: in unrelated news, I'll be in Indonesia soon :)
01:37 Severin: some people will review the capacities page?
01:37 jaakkoh: Cheers to all from Haiti. Just got my connection back after 5 days ... gentle Isaac my ass...
01:38 IknowJoseph: Severin: I'll try to look at it tomorrow
01:38 : sbook left the room (quit: Quit: sbook).
01:39 Severin: Hi Jaakko, happy to see you back
01:39 : oeon [~Adium@24-180-10-223.dhcp.snlo.ca.charter.com] entered the room.
01:40 Severin: thanks Joseph
01:41 harry-wood1: jaakkoh. How's the hurricane damage?
01:41 jaakkoh: Severin: Yea, me too. :)
01:42 : AndrewBuck [~kvirc@71-38-48-46.frgo.qwest.net] entered the room.
01:42 jaakkoh: The common concensus seems to be that there were very little damages. .. Surely some local distruction but even those mostly roofs blow away and light structures destroyed.
01:44 jaakkoh: I had a chance of talking with a WFP director who had been close to the assessments and seen stuff first hand a bit more broadly. The conclusion was simple: Very minor damage in general (which is of course what big players react upon). a lucky case.
01:44 harry-wood1: glad to hear it. It's passed on to the U.S. now hey?
01:47 jaakkoh: But we saw clearly that we don't have much ready capacity for cases of more disasterous situations. .. Things can be mobilized to an extent but we'll be looking at this in the near(ish) future... let's see at what point. The local community ppl are very project-oriented and not in a capacity building part of things.
01:47 jaakkoh: ... nor preparative. .. Like the guys I work with on both OSM and non-OSM things. It was difficult for them to understand why we were preparing to things on Thursday when the storm was expected to arrive Friday...