Humanitarian OSM Team/Meetings/TrainingWG/19 August 2015
- hot: HOT Training Working Group
Meeting started by TomT5454 at 19:00:01 UTC. The full logs are available at http://dogodigi.net/logs/hot/2015/hot.2015-08-19-19.00.log.html .
Approval of agenda
The proposed agenda was at . Russell Deffner asked for time to give an update on Activation School under "New Business". The agenda was approved with this addition.
Approval of August 3 minutes
See http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team/Meetings/TrainingWG/3_August_2015. The minutes were approved.
Actions out of the minutes
Progress on reviews
Ralph Aytoun updated the section on the iD Editor. The update has been added to the main LearnOSM site. He was congratulated on his progress. Russell has pushed back his reviews of activation-related modules until his Activation School project is launched. Tom has gotten other work out of the way, so feels ready to tackle JOSM-related modules. Nick is working on the Tasking Manager section with Russell's agreement. He noted that the beginning part of LearnOSM does not seem to have the right tone and needs further review. (This will be covered further under "Progress on Master List".)
Progress on translations
- Some activity on Transifex. Kannada is almost ready to go on site - just waiting for a few more phrases to be translated.
- Some small activity on other languages - there are more translators, but not sure who is authorising or organising them. (Blake Girardot noted that he had authorized Fofana Bazo.)
- Swahili translations of more of beginner section & part of coordination has been merged from GitHub - team prefer to work on GitHub rather than Transifex, mainly because Transifex only shows the phrase and you need to see the whole paragraph to understand how to translate. See https://github.com/hotosm/learnosm/issues/359 for full conversation.
Nick gave the following link to Transifex.
Tom raised Suzan's concern that she was too late to add her value, given that translations have been done. Nick agreed with him that overlap of revision and translation activities is inevitable -- LearnOSM will be a living document.
Nick noted that there are two versions of French documentation on Transifex. Presumably Steve Bower will be able to sort them out based on his previous investigation.
Action: Tom to contact Steve, with eventual direction to Nick for removal of redundant documents.
Blake asked if Transifex is the final answer, so the UN volunteers can come on board. There is the visibility issue raised above, with the thought that Transifex Live might fix that. However, to this point Nick sees problems with Transifex Live and cannot make it work with the Markdown (.md) file type he has been working with. He will continue to research the problem. Transifex certainly makes it easier for him to manage the project, though he would like to have the ability to specify which translations are needed for a given module. On the visibility problem, Nick suggested he would open LearnOSM in another tab so he could see it in context.
Nick is updating the Wiki to explain the current work flow.
Progress on Master List
Suzan Reed offered the services of herself and her partner, Jim Reed, to improve the presentation of the LearnOSM web site. The overall objective would be to provide a family resemblance amongst all of the OSM related sites, to make it easier for users to navigate from one to another. Customization of elements such as colours could be done for individual sites. She has been working on the main OSM web site with Katja Ulbert. (--Nick Allen (talk) 20:58, 8 September 2015 (UTC) Please see amendment to this item in the minutes, amendment at item 5 of https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team/Meetings/TrainingWG/31_August_2015.)
Agreed: There was consensus that the family resemblance should apply to the main OSM and LearnOSM web sites. Extending this to HOT-specific web sites requires further consideration.
Action: Suzan and her partners will prepare a proposed remake of the beginning page(s) of LearnOSM and provide to the team in PDF format, when she has time. She was warned that the broader community might or might not tolerate changes from the existing content and presentation. Nick provided the related .md file to her. Markdown is described at . It has its limitations in terms of rendering, with the possibility that Suzan's and Jim's proposals may have to be written in HTML.
Russell gave an update on progress with the training center. Course enrollment is scheduled for Saturday, August 22. The initial Activation Basics course is ready, so it might be possible to enroll for that one a day earlier. (According to Russell's subsequent report, this did not work out.) All courses are "bare-bones beta".
On the 2nd and 3rd of September, as part of the Africa Open Data Conference we will be doing 'workshop 1' and so we will have a more 'classroom' style session. Russell will be able to get direct feedback, make changes, etc.Then we'll try to have everything 'perfected' by 'workshop 2' in Jakarta the 18-20th of September.
If all goes well, we'll do a simulation/tabletop exercise and also start getting people 'endorsed' for the roster. Russell's hope is that by the end of September, we'll have a 'core team' endorsed and 'fully trained' for Activations.
Russell was congratulated for the enormous amount of work he had accomplished in just a few months. Nick said he had been to the site and had learned a lot.
Next meeting will be at 1800 UTC, August 31, chaired by Nick since Tom will be somewhere in Newfoundland on vacation.
Meeting ended at 20:44:45 UTC.
People present (lines said)
- TomT5454 (57)
- SuzanReed (54)
- Tallguy-Nick (52)
- russdeffner (51)
- BlakeGirardot_ (30)
- RAytoun (8)
- hot_meetbot` (4)
- osmbot-test (1)
Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4
19:00:01 <TomT5454> #startmeeting HOT Training Working Group
19:00:01 <hot_meetbot`> Meeting started Wed Aug 19 19:00:01 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is TomT5454. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:00:01 <hot_meetbot`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
19:00:01 <hot_meetbot`> The meeting name has been set to 'hot_training_working_group'
19:00:49 <TomT5454> Hi Blake, Nick, Russell
19:00:56 <Tallguy-Nick> Hi all
19:01:36 <TomT5454> Still on vacation, Nick?
19:01:43 <BlakeGirardot_> Hi
19:02:02 <Tallguy-Nick> I'm retired - always on vacation - sometimes I even slow down!
19:03:49 <russdeffner> sorry, was on a roll with curriculum stuff and thanks to Blake for pinging me on mumble, am 'here' now
19:03:56 <TomT5454> I'll mention now that my wife and I are going on a coach tour of Newfoundland, 25 Aug to 5 Sep. So I am unlikely to be able to make the next meeting (Sep 3). Can you chair?
19:04:13 <TomT5454> I mean Nick
19:04:13 <russdeffner> can someone post agenda here please, lost in the inbox?
19:04:31 <TomT5454> #link https://hackpad.com/HOT-Training-WG-Agenda-19-Aug-2015-qY1tAR9Sqgk
19:05:18 <Tallguy-Nick> 3rd September will be fine, depending on the time
19:06:46 <TomT5454> That's supposed to be an 1800 UTC meeting, but this can be discussed. The polling idea seems to be a bad one, so maybe we should settle things.
19:07:00 <Tallguy-Nick> should it be the 31st Aug though?
19:07:05 <russdeffner> next one is Sept 3rd?
19:07:21 <TomT5454> Oh, right. I was counting from today.
19:07:40 <TomT5454> 31 Aug is the right date.
19:07:57 <Tallguy-Nick> 31/08 is okay for me at 1800 UTC
19:08:00 <TomT5454> Hi, Ralph
19:08:13 <russdeffner> I'll be on a very long plan trip, so unfortunately I won't make that one
19:08:27 <RAytoun> Hi Tom and everyone, sorry I am late
19:08:54 <TomT5454> No problem. Just discussing next6 meeting. Nick will have to chair
19:08:57 <Tallguy-Nick> Hi RAytoun
19:09:17 <TomT5454> OK, agenda https://hackpad.com/HOT-Training-WG-Agenda-19-Aug-2015-qY1tAR9Sqgk
19:09:32 <TomT5454> I see nothing added.
19:09:33 <Tallguy-Nick> will have to look up how to get the logs created by the bot
19:10:08 <russdeffner> Nick, what do you need from bot?
19:10:09 <TomT5454> I do it the very hard way -- add
after most of the lines.
19:10:53 <Tallguy-Nick> How do you get it to do logs etc, or I can work off the other logs.
19:11:01 <russdeffner> :) Tom that's how I do the 'full log' part for the AWG
19:11:20 <russdeffner> Nick - it does it automatically
19:11:34 <Tallguy-Nick> Ah... that I can cope with, thanks
19:11:35 <TomT5454> You use the meetingbot commands
19:11:40 <russdeffner> #commands
19:11:40 <hot_meetbot`> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #reject #rejected #restrictlogs #save #showvote #startmeeting #startvote #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote
19:11:57 <russdeffner> most anything in that list will post something to the log
19:12:11 <russdeffner> once you endmeeting it spits them out here
19:12:56 <russdeffner> takes a bit of coordination on the chair's part if you want to make sure they come out 'correct'
19:13:15 <TomT5454> (Reluctantly) if you get the logs up I can do the summary minutes when I get back.
19:13:19 <Tallguy-Nick> I'll give it a whirl
19:13:55 <TomT5454> #topic Agenda
19:14:04 <Tallguy-Nick> Thanks for the offer, but if I chair I'll make sure the minutes are sorted (I remember doing it before).
19:14:08 <TomT5454> Is the agenda approved?
19:14:28 <Tallguy-Nick> Fine with me
19:14:37 <russdeffner> Tom - not sure if I should add 'new business' but have a follow up on HOT Training Center
19:14:50 <TomT5454> #topic Approval of previous meeting minutes
19:14:57 <RAytoun> I second that
19:15:15 <TomT5454> #link http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team/Meetings/TrainingWG/3_August_2015
19:15:49 <TomT5454> I'll give a couple of minutes to look them over
19:18:29 <TomT5454> Are they OK?
19:19:24 <BlakeGirardot_> They look good to em
19:19:25 <BlakeGirardot_> me
19:19:34 <BlakeGirardot_> I move we approve them
19:20:22 <TomT5454> OK, thanks
19:21:00 <TomT5454> #topic Actions out of the minutes -- progress on reviews
19:21:33 <Tallguy-Nick> iD editor update from Ralph has been added to the main LearnOSM site.
19:22:09 <Tallguy-Nick> Ralph = RAytoun
19:22:52 <Tallguy-Nick> http://learnosm.org/en/beginner/id-editor/
19:23:26 <TomT5454> Great
19:23:55 <TomT5454> I've cleared some underbrush, and I'm ready to get serious about my reviews
19:24:12 <russdeffner> just to note - I've pushed back the review of LearnOSM content as it relates to Activation Curriculum until the HOT Training Center courses are complete
19:24:22 <TomT5454> I'll look at Ralph's as a model
19:24:56 <Tallguy-Nick> The main ones that are needed are the first ones in beginner - frequent complaints that readers are treated like 3yr olds - some like this, others don't
19:26:09 <TomT5454> OK, I'll start there
19:26:10 <Tallguy-Nick> russdeffner, I've put myself down to update tasking manager section - is this okay?
19:26:58 <russdeffner> yes, absolutely
19:27:18 <russdeffner> I was going to reference it as is, but an update would be great
19:28:08 <TomT5454> Shall we move to translations?
19:28:29 <TomT5454> #topic Progress on translations
19:28:53 <Tallguy-Nick> 1.some activity on Transifex - Kannada is almost ready to go on site - just waiting for a few more phrases to be translated.
19:28:53 <Tallguy-Nick> 2. some small activity on other languages - there are more translators, but not sure who is authorising or organising them.
19:28:53 <Tallguy-Nick> 3. Swahili translations of more of beginner section & part of coordination has been merged from GitHub - team prefer to work on GitHub rather than Transifex, mainly because Transifex only shows the phrase and you need to see the whole paragraph to understand how to translate. See https://github.com/hotosm/learnosm/issues/359 for full conversation.
19:29:42 <Tallguy-Nick> https://www.transifex.com/hotosm/learnosm-1/dashboard/
19:29:45 <TomT5454> Suzan was concerned that she would be too late because translations are in progress already. Looks to me like the inefficiency is unavoidable
19:30:09 <TomT5454> Comments?
19:30:20 <BlakeGirardot_> I authorized one, a person I knew
19:30:26 <BlakeGirardot_> Fofana?
19:30:39 <BlakeGirardot_> anyway, a french speaker
19:30:53 <Tallguy-Nick> I think it's always going to be 'work in progress' - translation & updates simultaneously because there is so much
19:31:31 <Tallguy-Nick> French - there are two versions on Transifex - do we need two? not sure of the differences
19:31:56 <TomT5454> I thought Steve sorted that out
19:32:15 <BlakeGirardot_> Do we feel like we have the workflow worked out? Like transifex is "it"
19:32:42 <Tallguy-Nick> Swahili is still on github, as is German - both work well there
19:32:55 <TomT5454> Welcome, Suzan. We were just discussing translation
19:32:59 <BlakeGirardot_> Because we did have that gracious offer from a volunteer translation group, we just were not sure what the best workflow was for them.
19:33:30 <Tallguy-Nick> Personally I prefer Transifex from a managing point of view - doesn't take me long to get it onto the site
19:33:49 <Tallguy-Nick> & any updates are easy to implement across the board
19:33:49 <osmbot-test> Tallguy-Nick: Error: "any" is not a valid command.
19:34:30 <BlakeGirardot_> I feel like if you like it Tallguy-Nick then that is good enough for me.
19:35:45 <Tallguy-Nick> My only problem is that I cannot update a file to show that only some translation languages are needed
19:36:45 <TomT5454> So we need some sort of metadata extension
19:39:05 <TomT5454> What about that comment about translators needing to see the whole paragraph?
19:39:07 <Tallguy-Nick> I'll keep researching & experimenting
19:40:18 <TomT5454> OK shall we move on to Master List?
19:40:20 <Tallguy-Nick> Yes... - we'll have to see if other translators make similar comments. Personally I would open LearnOSM in another tab so I could see it in context
19:40:22 <BlakeGirardot_> In theory transifex was supposed to let us see the whole text in place
19:40:39 <BlakeGirardot_> they have the live editing
19:40:49 <BlakeGirardot_> feature that is supposed to do that
19:41:29 <BlakeGirardot_> but I have no idea how that feature is supposed to work
19:41:34 <Tallguy-Nick> If we use 'live editing' I think the whole site, reviewed or not, would appear there - could be a nightmare. At least at the moment I've kept it to a few modules we have a reasonable idea about
19:41:44 <BlakeGirardot_> interesting.
19:41:58 <Tallguy-Nick> But.. it didn't seem to understand .md files when I briefly tried it
19:42:36 <BlakeGirardot_> Ok, I see.
19:44:09 <Tallguy-Nick> Michael63 has now also got admin rights & I'm trying to update the wiki to explain the current workflow
19:44:49 <TomT5454> Suzan, Nick was saying that LearnOSM is always going to be a work in progress, with revision and translation happening together
19:45:56 <TomT5454> Are we done with translation?
19:46:03 <Tallguy-Nick> I'm done
19:46:21 <TomT5454> #topic Master List
19:46:31 <SuzanReed> I map with a partner, Jim Smith, who has written a number of books on computer use. I am also a writer and editor. We would be happy to be of help. We both like clear, concise instructions. Use us.
19:47:03 <TomT5454> Steve sent a note about a prototype of the LearnOSM index
19:47:16 <SuzanReed> We do need direction. What would be best for us to work on.
19:47:27 <russdeffner> yes, and thanks to that I realized we had the module on 'editing the wiki'
19:47:51 <russdeffner> now referenced in the training center :)
19:48:03 <Tallguy-Nick> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NlJHTYAYpyyF5o9D8UMAsSzFG7lHY2cIi2mzncx530w/edit?usp=sharing is the spreadsheet to list reviewing - the very beginning is where most people are passing comments
19:48:39 <Tallguy-Nick> http://nick-tallguy.github.io/en/beginner/ is the first, and that seems to upset some people in only a few sentances
19:49:28 <SuzanReed> Jim and I would love to give http://nick-tallguy.github.io/en/beginner/ a remake. Would that be acceptable? How do we do it?
19:50:03 <SuzanReed> I know we talked about this in email, but that was on my old computer and I lost all the emails in the transfer.
19:50:11 <Tallguy-Nick> I can email you the .md files - it is basically a very small text file - you update it & send it back. If I need to I will format it.
19:50:45 <SuzanReed> Thanks, Nick. Don’t know .md files.
19:52:41 <Tallguy-Nick> .md = markdown - basically a text file. If you alter the words I can make it appear the way you would like. Or if you prefer put it in a word processor & I will take the text out & format it.
19:52:52 <Tallguy-Nick> I've emailed one to you
19:52:56 <SuzanReed> What do I use to open the .md file. (thanks for sending it.)
19:53:12 <TomT5454> #link http://fileinfo.com/extension/md
19:53:33 <SuzanReed> Thanks.
19:53:37 <Tallguy-Nick> a text editor - something very simple. A word processor will do it as well. sorry, I know you use a Mac and don't know which programmes they use
19:53:59 <TomT5454> Apple TextEdit, the linked site says
19:54:09 <SuzanReed> Easy to do now that I know what it is. No problem.
19:54:44 <SuzanReed> Also the body of an email message works well. !!
19:54:57 <Tallguy-Nick> Yes, I can do that if you prefer
19:55:26 <SuzanReed> I can also grab the text off the site.
19:56:22 <Tallguy-Nick> The first one I sent has very little formatting. Later ones have more, and have image links, but we can work it out as we go along
19:56:38 <SuzanReed> Nick, what you sent only has a few lines of copy.
19:57:36 <Tallguy-Nick> Yes, it's the very first intro at http://nick-tallguy.github.io/en/beginner/ - but I've seen two comments from readers who found it 'childish' - if we get that one right, then move onto others.
19:58:48 <SuzanReed> Been looking at that one for a while. Ever since I joined, actually.
20:00:11 <SuzanReed> Can’t get the full text on that page. Get a twitter account, other things when I follow links. I’ll need the full text for the page. Is the easiest for me to copy from the page? Or?
20:01:03 <Tallguy-Nick> I can email you the .md file again if that helps? (for the second file)
20:01:07 <SuzanReed> Would love to have a go at reformatting the page, too. It’s difficult to read as it is.
20:01:35 <SuzanReed> The .md file you sent had links. They didn’t give me all the copy for the page.
20:01:55 <Tallguy-Nick> Unfortunately there are problems with formatting - it's not my choice either.
20:02:00 <SuzanReed> Nor did the .md file. It only gave the first paragraph if that.
20:02:16 <SuzanReed> What are the problems with formatting?
20:03:17 <SuzanReed> Back to the text…now I get it. It’s on a number of pages. Duh.
20:03:33 <SuzanReed> Is Katia working on the site design?
20:03:36 <Tallguy-Nick> You can't wrap text around images, or specify where an image will appear or what size
20:04:18 <Tallguy-Nick> I've heard nothing about anyone else working on the design
20:04:21 <SuzanReed> There’s too much space between lines, too much space between columns. Needs to be tightened up a bit.
20:05:08 <SuzanReed> Katia is woking on the main OSM site. I suggested everything follow that design. Then the whole of OSM/HOT will look consistent.
20:05:31 <Tallguy-Nick> Sounds good to me - can you do it?
20:05:34 <RAytoun> Sounds great
20:05:48 <SuzanReed> If she isn’t doing it, I would be happy to do it. I’m a seasoned designer.
20:05:56 <SuzanReed> Jim is a seasoned programmer.
20:06:20 <russdeffner> I disagree with LearnOSM looking like other HOT sites
20:06:23 <SuzanReed> Do other people have mapping partners? We were put together by John Whelan. Works great to have someone check work.
20:06:28 <russdeffner> the audience is different
20:06:58 <SuzanReed> It can resemble the OSM site, with different colors, etc.
20:07:03 <russdeffner> also FYI Katja Ulbert (assume we're talking about her) is currently working with me and Mhairi on Activation stuff
20:07:49 <TomT5454> It seems reasonable to have a family resemblance, Russell
20:07:50 <RAytoun> The focus is on OSM. We should not be confusing LearnOSM with LearnHOT
20:07:54 <SuzanReed> Yes. Misspelled her name. She is a designer in Berlin. I heard she was resdesigning OSM sites.
20:07:58 <russdeffner> and to clarify - are you saying LearnOSM look like http://www.openstreetmap.org/ or http://hotosm.org/?
20:08:09 <SuzanReed> Family resemblance, yes. Exactly the same, no.
20:08:15 <russdeffner> oops ? added to link
20:08:23 <russdeffner> to which one?
20:08:54 <russdeffner> the main OSM website is a very much different thing than the main HOT website.
20:09:12 <BlakeGirardot_> I also think that LearnOSM needs a pretty distinct identity.
20:10:03 <SuzanReed> I’m saying: use Katja’s site design to create a family of similar looking sites for OSM, HOT, LearnOSM. The difference in look and feel is confusing to the user. I’m all for some similarity. http://www.openstreetmap.org/ or http://hotosm.org aren’t using her work.
20:10:05 <BlakeGirardot_> I know it is a support tool for HOT, but it is also a resource for OSM in general. And it helps people to orient themselves if the site is distinct from OSM and HOT
20:10:50 <russdeffner> hotosm.org is basically all Katja graphic/icon work - don't think she is involved with the OSM.org site
20:11:05 <SuzanReed> Make it distinct in some way, but also make it look like it’s part of the same overall organization. The way it is now, it looks like a different organization. That’s confusing.
20:11:24 <TomT5454> BUT it should be easy to go from one to the other site
20:11:28 <BlakeGirardot_> Why is it confusing? It is not a HOT specific site
20:11:30 <russdeffner> the OSM.org and hotosm.org sites are maintained by two different orgs
20:11:36 <SuzanReed> Katja and I can make that distinction, keep the similarity, make it unique
. 20:12:11 <SuzanReed> They look completely different. That’s a problem for people new to any part of the organization.
20:13:08 <russdeffner> side note - you'll see we are designing the HOT Training Center in 'HOT colors'
20:13:30 <russdeffner> because it is very much an HOT specific thing
20:13:46 <SuzanReed> Once oriented, it’s not a problem, but for new people and the public it’s quite confusing. There is no visual relationship. It’s like a university having a different look and feel to every department website. None of them look like they are part of a whole.
20:14:22 <russdeffner> I would actually agree, but say that LearnOSM should have more look and feel of openstreetmap.org
20:14:25 <BlakeGirardot_> It is a separate tool and site from HOT, there is no reason for them to be similar or associated.
20:14:36 <SuzanReed> I’ve done a few university sites. Same arguement.
20:14:41 <TomT5454> OK, we have a problem, and it's not technical -- it's a matter of pride of creatorship
20:16:07 <RAytoun> I agree that LearnOSM should look and feel like OpenStreetMap
20:16:24 <SuzanReed> Same pride of creatorship operates in universities. However, by adding unique elements to the design, including logos, colors and so on, there can be a similarity, but each can look unique.
20:17:20 <SuzanReed> The underlying formatting is what creates the consistency. On top of that all kinds of uniqueness can be added.
20:17:49 <BlakeGirardot_> I would tend to agree if it needs to be more like a site it would be OSM, not HOT
20:18:26 <Tallguy-Nick> I agree provided the training centre is up & fully running, until then LearnOSM has to compromise & cover both aspects
20:18:39 <TomT5454> Russell, can we work it this way: the Activation School is outside our scope. However, maybe we can negotiate some general principles. Leaving that aside, LearnOSM is primarily part of OSM
20:18:41 <SuzanReed> OSM and HOT are related, correct? Or are they two distinct organization, unrelated?
20:19:08 <SuzanReed> I thought they had a relationship.
20:19:10 <BlakeGirardot_> They are not legally related, but HOT is part of the OSM community.
20:19:23 <SuzanReed> OK. I rest my case! hahaha
20:19:25 <russdeffner> @Tom - not really, I'm currently 'employed' by HOT to create this Training Center - it belongs to HOT the org
20:19:38 <russdeffner> and it basically is 'up and running'
20:19:40 <SuzanReed> Oh, that sounded snarky. Meant it to be lighthearted.
20:19:48 <BlakeGirardot_> Ya, for sure.
20:19:51 <BlakeGirardot_> :)
20:20:34 <Tallguy-Nick> The Training Centre needs a section for beginners as well as Activators. I've been trying to read how etc. to see if I can join in
20:20:38 <BlakeGirardot_> OSM is a large community and ecosystem that allows close collaboration and mutual support for non profits and commercial entities and a lot of independence too.
20:20:41 <SuzanReed> I think it’s something that has to be seen. Difficult to describe in words. It’s what people like Katja and I do well.
20:21:24 <SuzanReed> We can create a visual relationship that’s very subtle.
20:21:40 <SuzanReed> How that
20:21:54 <BlakeGirardot_> I think mock ups or proposals are fine, but I would just caution that they may or may not be adopted, and it would be a bit beyond the scope of this WG to unilaterally decide on major changes to LearnOSM look/feel/layout.
20:21:55 <russdeffner> Nick - Blake actually created an 'HOT 101' course many months (year+) ago, so there is some 'basics' on there
20:21:56 <SuzanReed> “template” is filled can be quite unique.
20:21:59 <RAytoun> HOT has very specific items that are not OSM ... such as Tasking Manager and Validators for starters
20:22:44 <BlakeGirardot_> Nagivation improvements are a different story, they are sorely needed.
20:22:57 <SuzanReed> Yes, of course there are many unique elements to each organization. This is difficult to describe in words. It’s a subtle visual thing.
20:24:04 <SuzanReed> Navigation is unique. How the navigation is done can be similar.
20:24:30 <BlakeGirardot_> (fyi i made my two moodle courses 'hidden' since they are not really ready for public use'
20:25:02 <russdeffner> ...I do envision HOT using the Training Center for more training besides Activators, but think it will always be focused on 'our' volunteers, although lots will be useful to larger OSM community
20:25:16 <SuzanReed> Whether LearnOSM looks in any way like OSM or HOT, it would be good to tighten up the underlying design.
20:25:36 <russdeffner> where LearnOSM is 'the opposite', directed at OSM contributors but relevant for HOT volunteers
20:26:12 <SuzanReed> Is it possible to do some tweaking to the site design?
20:26:13 <BlakeGirardot_> I tend to agree with that SuzanReed, it could use some readability and navigation improvements for sure.
20:27:04 <SuzanReed> I would like to volunteer my knowledge and expertise if someone would like readability and naigation improvements.
20:27:23 <Tallguy-Nick> Tweaking can be done, but I don't have those skills
20:27:25 <russdeffner> @Blake - oh, I would like to 'go live' with HOT 101 since I reference it in Activation 101 - we'll chat 'offline'
20:27:30 <TomT5454> If I understand correctly, you have a free hand to put stuff together, then we can look at it and get community comments
20:28:35 <SuzanReed> Tom, is that directed to me?
20:28:44 <TomT5454> Yes, sorry
20:28:58 <Tallguy-Nick> Be careful with '101' - in the UK it is mentioned in TV shows as a 'dump for the strange' and could have the wrong connotations
20:29:08 <SuzanReed> If so, sure. It would be good to have input from this group before doing that.
20:29:45 <russdeffner> Thanks Nick - will change to 'basics' or something, did not know
20:30:29 <RAytoun> Suzan until you put something together then we could all be talking at cross purposes. Some visual mock ups would be great.
20:30:32 <SuzanReed> We once named a product a madeup name. Product was for Mexico. Meant “vomit” in Mexican slang.
20:30:48 <SuzanReed> OK! Will do!
20:30:56 <TomT5454> Thanks, Suzan
20:31:04 <SuzanReed> PDF OK?
20:31:12 <TomT5454> OK by me
20:31:20 <RAytoun> PDF is good
20:32:32 <SuzanReed> Great. Have a couple of projects for clients right now, but will do it soon.
20:33:22 <TomT5454> Anything else to discuss?
20:34:12 <russdeffner> I just wanted to give quick update on training center, but it was somewhat covered in discussion; is this 'new business' time/etc?
20:34:22 <TomT5454> Yes
20:34:32 <TomT5454> #topic New Business
20:35:04 <russdeffner> The schedule for the training center is...
20:35:37 <russdeffner> All course enrollment is scheduled for the 22nd
20:36:40 <russdeffner> Activation 101 is ready, so might do a bit early (i.e. Friday)
20:37:13 <russdeffner> Courses will be 'bare bones'/beta
20:37:45 <russdeffner> On the 2nd and 3rd of September, as part of the Africa Open Data Conference we will be doing 'workshop 1'
20:38:18 <russdeffner> and so we will have a more 'classroom' style session, so I can get direct feedback, make changes, etc.
20:39:03 <russdeffner> then we'll try to have everything 'perfected' by 'workshop 2' in Jakarta the 18-20th
20:39:41 <BlakeGirardot_> (thank everyone for the meeting, I have another starting now as well and it is voice so takes more of my attention)
20:39:53 <russdeffner> also if all goes well, we'll do a simulation/tabletop exercise and also start getting people 'endorsed' for the roster
20:40:43 <russdeffner> my hope is that by the end of September, we'll have a 'core team' endorsed and 'fully trained' for Activations
20:40:48 <TomT5454> Amazing that you've accomplished so much
20:41:08 <russdeffner> and that they will be able to maintain that endorsement/roster growing from there
20:41:15 <russdeffner> thanks Tom
20:41:23 <russdeffner> it's been a bit crazy
20:41:40 <Tallguy-Nick> I've visited several times, and it looks pretty interesting to me - learnt a lot!
20:42:39 <russdeffner> great
20:43:20 <russdeffner> I don't think I have anything else, except details which probably not many need/want to know; but can answer any questions
20:44:14 <TomT5454> OK, next meeting is Aug. 31 at 1800 UTC, Nick chairing
20:44:45 <TomT5454> #endmeeting