Template talk:OSM user

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Hi Verdy, what has been "unified"? https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Template:OSM_user&diff=1467547&oldid=1467455&rcid=&curid=89776 Did you read my revert comment at all? --Aseerel4c26 (talk) 10:20, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

There was a comment in the edit just before. This was also commented on the doc page that was missing other existing usages.
There was a confusion between this tempalte and the other which did not properly use the correct encoding (or because many users frequently mix the two and are not aware that OSM accounts and wiki accounts are distinct, or that use them oncorrectly with incorrect encoding). I made many tests about this. Unifying the rules in the same more complete tempalte helps.
The usage has not changed basically this version continues not displaying edits/history links. And uses now the correct encoding. As it was already generating a full wikilink, this keeps also the content inline and usable everywhere it was already used, including in lists. Various pages use this template and/or {{User}} together, they are properly aligned and with the same options for the icon, which uses the existing user's preference on the wiki, where available on this wiki (but the gender cannot be guessed from the OSM account only and gender neutrality is prefered (if unknown) to the male-only bias (gender diversity is a recognized target for OSM, I respect that). — Verdy_p (talk) 10:49, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
You did not answer my question. Why did you insert an icon? And, no, there was no comment before. --Aseerel4c26 (talk) 14:20, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
There are bidi rendering issues that were solved in Tempalte:User; also other encoding issues as well. I see no special interest in maintaining the two separately when there are fixes on generated URLs.
For your concern, I made the icon disappear when neither m=1 nor f=1 is specified (so there's no longer a "neutral" default icon, given that we cannot guess the gender OSM user accounts: the m=1 and f=1 were made for that).
As well you broke the prefered display label (OSM user accounts do not necessarily indicate the names that users need to be called).
There are other accounts that will be added for help.wiki or the OSM forum. Once again they have their own encoding dfepending on URLs or tools. As URLs are changing overtime, we must not use any encoding on the parameter (you broke links with users having non ASCII letters in their names, something that was also fixed, and broke the layout of English pages containing user names in Arabic). — Verdy_p (talk) 15:03, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
I broke nothing, because I did not change anything on this template. --Aseerel4c26 (talk) 20:01, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

Hello, if I had to vote I would be for a version without icon, because all these little flourishes interfere with the fluidity of the text of this wiki which must be simple because technique in the first place.Gnrc69 (talk) 08:58, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

The icon was optional, your reverted it, where it was expected to make distinctions between user names on various places (people confuse the user account names on distinct sites, this must be clear).
Anyway the unificatrion fixed Bidi issues (already solved ion {{User}} but that was still here), notably with lists of user names whre these names are broken when there's some RTL name in the middle (even that name may have been split in two parts. {{Tl|User was taking care that each name would remain in isolation, independantly of what is surrounding, and without chanfing the order of lists. — Verdy_p (talk) 13:11, 30 April 2017 (UTC)
I think you should read the user name again.
If you really want to complicate this template (in my opinion the icon stuff should be in a different template and this one only generate the URL - like it was before) do your bidi stuff, add a optional icon, but do not change the output of the template with input kept the same. See what you did on my user page. You admit yourself, that "it is used in more places than what you expect". If you change anything clearly say what and why you have changed it. You did not comment at all in your original edit.
It would be nice if you could keep the established version while the stuff is under discussion, but seem to think you you are always right... --Aseerel4c26 (talk) 16:12, 30 April 2017 (UTC)
Why do you want to revert this? There's absolutely no page broken with it. But it effectively corrects some broken pages by using consistant code (which allows mixing {{OSM user}} and {{User}} in the same lists of users and keep the lists ordered (not broken by Bidi) and all users with the same rendering (minus the optional gender icon for {{OSM user}}), making clear also that we are creating external links from this wiki (see the rationale for Wikiepdia links, or all links to other external social networks that should be explicitly tagged so that people know where they are going to and what user account they are speaking about: there's lot of confusion because users are mixing Wiki account names and OSM account names, and many red links generated: people are complaining about this confusion in various places).
  • Compare the two use cases with {{OSM user}}:
    {{OSM user|aseerel4c26}}
    "aseerel4c26", simplest form
    {{OSM user|aseerel4c26|m= 1 }}
    "User icon 2.svgaseerel4c26 (on osm)", extended form with explicit gender
  • with all cases managed in {{User}}:
    {{User|asserel4c26|osm= }}
    "System-users-3.svgaseerel4c26" (with a default gender, but different wiki account)
    {{User|asserel4c26|m= 1 |osm= }}
    "User icon 2.svgaseerel4c26" (with an explicit gender, but different wiki account)
  • and now based on the wiki user name (first position, possibly overriden):
    {{User|Aseerel4c26|noedits= 1 }}
    "User icon 2.svgAseerel4c26 (on osm)" (suppress edits links like above, only link the OSM profile page but not working as it does not match)
    {{User|aseerel4c26|noedits= 1 }}
    "User icon 2.svgaseerel4c26 (on osm)" (suppress edits links like above, only link the OSM profile page, this works)
    "System-users-3.svgAseerel4c26 (on osm, edits, contrib, heatmap)" (used since long with a default gender, but not working for the OSM account)
    {{User|Aseerel4c26|m= 1 }}
    "User icon 2.svgAseerel4c26 (on osm, edits, contrib, heatmap)" (used since long with an explicit gender, but not working for the OSM account)
    {{User|Aseerel4c26|osm= }}
    "System-users-3.svgAseerel4c26" (used since long with a default gender, but explicitly no matching OSM account)
    {{User|Aseerel4c26|m= 1 |osm= }}
    "User icon 2.svgAseerel4c26" (used since long with an explicit gender, but explicitly no matching OSM account)
    {{User|asserel4c26|wiki= Aseerel4c26 }}
    "System-users-3.svgaseerel4c26 (on osm, edits, contrib, heatmap)" (with a default gender, but wiki account capitalized)
    {{User|asserel4c26|wiki= Aseerel4c26 |m= 1 }}
    "User icon 2.svgaseerel4c26 (on osm, edits, contrib, heatmap)" (with an explicit gender, but wiki account capitalized)
There are subtle other things about encodings as wiki page names, or in URL resource paths, or in URL query strings, or in anchors on wiki pages, or in anchors in external URLs depedning on the target site. Your name is still simple, but other users have more complex cases (non ASCII letters including Chinese, spaces/undescores, plus, percent, characters not convertibles to anchors, Bidi names (Arabic or Arabic+Latin...) that are all handled correctly in {{User}}. The names on wiki are very special (more restricted due to their local folding and a different set of allowed characters), but accounts on OSM are also treated differently than what you expect (they more liberal but require distinction depending on services requested by the URL: OSM profile page, edits, contrib, heatmap, talks...).
For some pages, we need version with abbreviated tools, or more tools. Only these will be managed in {{User}}, to reduce the maintenance {{OSM user}} just shares the code but passes "wiki=" to remove the wiki account and passes m=n to remove the implicit neutral icon as there's no wiki account associated to infer the gender from it).

Verdy_p (talk) 23:05, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for your comment. Note that this is not YOUR wiki, so I fail (even if I account for "be bold!") to see why a previously working template needs to be in a new version while it is under discussion. We could all save quite some time (which we could use for mapping... in case you still know what OSM is about?!) if you would stop to insist that you are 100% right. Further note that unsubsted template links are not very useful for comparison (especially in the future). Okay, you call it a feature ("making clear also that we are creating external links from this wiki"), I call it a bug. The previous documentation page does only specify "inserts a link". Nothing about accompanying text or even a icon. Please use a new template for this changed behaviour - or a icon parameter. Call it {{OSM user with extra notices - and warning: hot coffee may be hot!}} or whatever. The Template {{OSM user}} is used in user boxes where your version shows an obstrusive icon and the "(on osm)" tag. Same on my user page:
Your version:
my user page on www.osm.org (update: that was not substed enough - still templates inside. I think it was: "Aseerel4c26 (on osm)")
my user page on help.osm.org
my user page on www.osm.org
my user page on help.osm.org
Do you note the slight difference? ;-) First it only supplied a link, afterwards it took the liberty to also insert other text. --Aseerel4c26 (talk) 21:08, 2 May 2017 (UTC), Update 12:17, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
There's an icon parameter (it is the m= or f= that enables it now as you see in the first two examples...)
But there's stil la confusion between accounts here on the wiki and external accounts on OSM (and I can givbe numerous examples of wiki pages where links are going nowhere on OSM, or that generate red links on this wiki and not going to OSM where they should: many users are confused and don't have a unified way to fix it: this was not even clearly documented and many users make false assumptions, and where copying random strings taken from the URL in the address bar, that did no work as expected everywhere). That the main reason for unifying them with a base tempalte that allows everything and fixes tricky cases such as encoding and BiDi reordering. — Verdy_p (talk) 21:51, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
Note: your remark about "hot coffee" is not relevant at all and in fact insulting or stupidly proposed as a fake, because of course it would have no use with such name.
Adding more tools related to OSM users, or compressing them like with {{Relation}}, and similar is still something pending. I made the changes to support the removal of the gender icon, there are other needs for a "bot" gender icon to replace the neutral one (useful mostly for OSM accounts where they are required by a strong OSM policy, but which also require a contact name: several bot owners have multiple distinct bots accounts of various kinds for their imports or redactions or approved automated edits). — Verdy_p (talk) 02:27, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
Yes, my remark about "hot coffee" is in fact meant as a fake to hopefully transport some meaning. Please leave users a way to just generate a plain link to a user page on osm.org as the template did before. If I see correctly we have {{User}} for all the other stuff. So, do the bidi and encoding changes to this template now, if you keep the old documented usages which produced no icon and no additional text. Thanks! --Aseerel4c26 (talk) 12:17, 3 May 2017 (UTC)