Proposal talk:Park drive

From OpenStreetMap Wiki
Jump to navigation Jump to search

If it has to be used in conjunction with amenity=parking, why not have the tag be something like parking=park_ride? At least then people will know it relates to a parking lot. As it is without the context it might be confusing. Personally, I originally thought it was a tag for rides in a park or something like that. --Adamant1 (talk) 10:15, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

When using parking as a key, I can no longer specify whether the parking space is a multi-storey car park, a simple area or an underground car park. --Martin minheim (talk) 10:22, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
The key parking specifies the visual/physical type of parking, not the purpose. Using the parking key for park+drive would be wrong. --scai (talk) 10:29, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

Usage of carpool=* key

Hello, as I saw this proposal I can inform you that we are using in France the carpool=* tag to say if a feature is designed for carpooling. Associated to amenity=parking, we say that people can let their own vehicle to share a single one. We made some clean-up work in the country to use it everywhere appropriate. This should be considerated during this proposal process, either as a solution, an inspiration or something to clean-up after approval of this one. --PanierAvide (talk) 10:34, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

This way of foretelling that one rents a car together to use it with several people at the same time corresponds more to the idea of car sharing. My suggestion is to take a car with others in their own car. --Martin minheim (talk) 10:41, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
Maybe I wasn't clear enough, we distinguish in France : "auto-partage" = car sharing (public authority/corporate operated networks where people can rent cars, in a very similar way of bike sharing systems like Vélib in Paris) and "covoiturage" = car pooling (individuals sharing cars they own with other individuals). People from countryside often needs to drive through a few kilometers single in their own car to join a carpooling parking, where there they let their own car to join at 2+ people in one's individual car. This carpool=* tag is used to represent these parkings used by individuals to share cars. --PanierAvide (talk) 10:47, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
What you, the community in France, represented with carpool=* I would like to convert into park_ride=*. One reason is that there is no proposal for carpool=* yet. During my research so far, the exclusively French page about carpool=* did not occur to me in the search process. As I understand it, use the key carpool as a meeting point for carpools and as a restriction of traffic routes. My suggestion, on the other hand, applies exclusively to parking spaces.--Martin minheim (talk) 13:38, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
You have clearly understood what this carpool=* tag describe. So I see three solutions there : 1. say your proposal and carpool=* doesn't describe same concept and are different ; 2. say they are similar, and extend your park_ride=* proposal to cover use case I described, so we can get rid of carpool=* in France ; 3. rewrite your proposal to use instead carpool=* tag for both parking description and road access definition, so we can make it go through official proposal process. What do you think ? --PanierAvide (talk) 13:58, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
I stick to my proposal to introduce park_drive=* and to reject all other similarly interpretable tags. For me, carpool only describes a place (parking lot) where a carpool is formed. It is seemingly irrelevant where the passenger is on foot or the train or with his own vehicle. On the other hand park_drive describes a place where you can park your vehicle and then drive on with someone else. The key carpool would fit according to my understanding only with road restrictions. But that would be a different discussion about perhaps a new proposal.--Martin minheim (talk) 14:13, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
OK if I understand well, carpool=* would be only for road access (if it goes through proposal process), and park_drive=* would replace all carpool=* currently in use on amenity=parking in France. That makes sense to me. And amenity=car_pooling for pick-up places where people meet to share a car, but can't let their own vehicle (it looks like a bus stop or a very short stay parking) ? --PanierAvide (talk) 14:30, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
In Germany the amenity=car_pooling probably corresponds to a "Mitfahrerbank" according to your description. So a place where you wait for a carpool because you don't have a car or aren't allowed to drive any more. This would happen to older people. But then you could also submit a new suggestion.--Martin minheim (talk) 14:53, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
Exactly ! Well I think this is already what was intended by amenity=car_pooling, so your proposal can state that amenity=car_pooling is not deprecated, but will be reserved for Mitfahrerbank-like infrastructure --PanierAvide (talk) 14:59, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
I agree that current use of carpool=* is exactly the correct tag. If used on a highway, it is an access tag. If used on a parking lot, it describes who is allowed to park there. It's obvious that it will describe that people forming a car pool park there and not the actual carpool car - because this will be driven on the road and not parked. --Mueschel (talk) 20:45, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
Do I understand correctly that you agree with me that the key carpool is unsuitable for use in parking lots?--Martin minheim (talk) 22:43, 6 December 2019 (UTC)
No, this is a reply to @PanierAvide, I agree with him that carpool is a good key. --Mueschel (talk) 23:16, 6 December 2019 (UTC)
Can't my execution above change your mind? What would be your counterarguments to this course of conversation?--Martin minheim (talk) 23:20, 6 December 2019 (UTC)
As PanierAvide and Mueschel, I don't see any reason to change carpool=*. If people get collected there but don't park there car then carpool=station would make sense, no need for another tag --Nospam2005 (talk) 13:09, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

Comment from Ontario

Hi, I was pointed here via weeklyOSM. Thanks for suggesting this idea. In case this helps with defining or naming, some additional regional perspective from Ontario, Canada: These parking lots would be generally called "carpool lots" here. Many of them are served by public transit in which case the transit agencies will often name the stop to contain "Park & Ride", for example stop node 6419881513 near lot way 484814056. However some lots are purely carpool / "park and drive", for example way 685150858, and while I don't think using park_ride=yes on it is terribly misleading or confusing, a strictly-more-correct tag could be useful.

From an Ontario English perspective, my most natural name for this would be a "carpool lot" and thus my personal preference would be for using carpool=designated on the amenity=parking, like the French mentioned above. However I could definitely live with park_drive=* if that is preferred by the community. To keep consistency with most OSM naming, we could also try to get input from some British English speakers.

Thanks, --Jarek Piórkowski (talk) 02:15, 17 December 2019 (UTC)