Talk:Breweries in the United Kingdom

Managed, Tenant, Tied and Free

How should we distinguish between the various types of pub ownership? Below is a first shot Craigloftus 16:56, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Note, that brewery=* is counter-intuitively defined to be applied to pubs to describe the make/brand of beer on sale.

• Managed, it seems that operator=* and brewery=* is appropriate?
• Tenant, we could use tenant=yes, with brewery=* and owner=* if known?
• Tied, I think this is represented through brewery=*?
• Free, free=yes?

Open Brewpub Map

We should also have a look at OpenBrewPub Map which is quite similar. It looks to be mapping anything with 'microbrewery=yes', which is a subset of what we are talking of doing.

Overall tag for sector/supply chain

Proposal for industry_sector= alcoholic_beverage is not to distinguish size of brewery but to link all the disparate elements in the supply chain e.g brewery, distillery, pub, off licenceBrianboru 10:29, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

This seems like a category tag? Similar to the idea of a relation? Is there something this describes that isn't possible with a few separate queries? -- Craigloftus 18:30, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Cut-off between small and large scale producers

This is bound to have a blurred edge but I think we all know a mass-market beer from a craft beer when we see or taste themBrianboru 10:29, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

I am not so sure. There are relatively large producers (beyond micro-brewery) of non-mainstream real ale. I think craft should stick to micro-* producers as defined by their licenses. What I don't know about is how this applies to cider/perry, wine etc. -- Craigloftus 18:30, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

For cider and perry, there is a UK tax exemption for producers who make less than 7,000 litres a year. This would be an appropriate cutoff point. --Richard 12:36, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Okay. Seems a little unfair on cider producers, breweries can produce 500,000 litres and get half exemption --Craigloftus 17:15, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Do we tag the building or the area?

I have started producing a list of possible tagging errors, and have seen that in some cases we have a building tagged as a brewery inside a 'landuse=industrial' area which is named after the brewery.

As a matter of principle, should we tag the building or the area? I am starting to think that because the brewery is likely to occupy several buildings, the landuse=industrial area would be the best to tag with the industrial=brewery tag, because they seem to go together better than building=yes, industrial=brewery.

I also think we should name only one of them, again I would suggest the area rather than the building.

Grahamjones 18:47, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

My view is that we should be tagging something other than the building and landuse=*. Specifically, that we should tag an area surrounding all the buildings, yards, roads etc for the brewery site, and within a landuse=industrial area if that is appropriate. I prefer this as landuse=* is "for describing the primary use of areas of land" in a broad brush zoning sort of way, rather that describing specific 'entities', e.g., a corner shop within a residential area doesn't need a tiny little landuse=retail around it. I'm not sure this is the conventional view. Craigloftus 17:05, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

Off-sales

We should tag to distinguish between pubs which do off-sales, and those (the majority and thus the default?) which do not.

We also need to decide how and when to tag/ display off-licences. I'd suggest not all of them (which would include most supermarkets), but certainly those which sell draught ale, and perhaps those which sell specialist bottled beers. I don't expect making that distinction to be easy... Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 13:19, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

"Those which sell draught ale" Do these exist, and if so, where do I find them?

I can't think of any sensible way to map them. So lets just make stuff up. real_beer=draught and real_beer=bottles? Using real_beer=* as the first introduction of the internationalised real_ale=* ;) Craigloftus 16:26, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Yes there are pubs which sell cask ale for consumption off site. The only two I know of are the Fat Cat and Fat Cat Brewery Tap in Norwich, which also happen to brew their own beer. See: http://www.fatcatpub.co.uk/takeawaybeer.html I think the best tag for an amenity=pub that does this is off_licence=yes. -- Borbus 16:21, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

I was thinking of shop-type off-licences (such as the Ormskirk Barron and Archer Road Beer Shop), which sell draught ale (and this one which does draught cider), rather than pubs that do off-sales, but yes, the latter should be mapped, also. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 21:02, 20 November 2011 (UTC)