Contact with the community
Can you please show where you've been in contact with the local communities, and list any comments or objections that you have received?
- Hello, we will prepare the information and add it here by Monday. --Bolt001
- Hey again, I have updated the community awareness section, please have a look. --Bolt001
Poland - contact with community
1) When supposed post to mailing list happened? Can you link it?
2) Note that you should contact via official OSM forum, subsection Poland - which is main location of discussion for Polish community - see https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewforum.php?id=23
3) Please avoid making this mistake with other communities. You can use https://github.com/osmlab/osm-community-index https://openstreetmap.community/ to locate where community has active discussions and contact all relevant communication channels
EDIT: 4) In case of listing that contact was made in this case and other - please link to it in the table to document it and to avoid misunderstandings and to allow easy verification
- Hey Mateusz, thanks for pointing this out.I looked into it after your message and seems I made a mistake in talk-list address. I apologize and want to let you know I just sent the message again.
- Regarding your second point, please check this flowchart as this is the process we follow to contact communities. Thank you for your third point, I have noted it. Regarding the fourth point, good suggestion, I'll add posts only for talk-list and local forum messages, since for other contact channels a message is not traced with link. Please let me know if you have any other objections. --Bolt001
- https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=72185 - Polish community was contacted, thanks! Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 13:58, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
About Hungary (and all)
It is important to underline that "Approved" means "we have notified the community and nobody explicitly said NO"; nobody said "YES" either and there were objections. Multiple questions were asked and a few was answered, others were left hanging. Main points:
- How can we contact you in case of problems?
- response: In case of any suspicious edit, please leave a comment on the changeset and if you feel there's a need, feel free to reach out to me through the main contact channel (yet to decide as mentioned above).
- How do you plan to follow the local tagging scheme peculiarities (since it's not available in English)?
- response: The team will be notified on all the problem points you mentioned. We are going to translate the wiki to get familiar with the way you map roads in Hungary and in case of questions, we will reach out to you.
- What do you plan to do in Hungary in the light that our large cities are pretty up to date already?
- Will you stop using ID editor please and break various things like public traffic relations?
- response: Thank you for your feedback! The mapper is already notified about that.
- Will you stop using satellite imagery to "correct" geometry based on local orthophotos or RTK based (sub-meter-accuracy) measurements, local survey/knowledge based edits?
- What kind of problems do you plan to "fix"? Based on what measurements?
- Have Bolt Technology OÜ licensed and approved these edits for ODbL license?
We asked about the scope and purpose of help from Bolt.
- response: We use OSM data for route calculation and to provide navigation to drivers, and in order for us to be able to correctly do that, we need well mapped road network in OSM.
There was also discussion about the tracks which are recorded by simple mobile phones then post-processed by Bolt then used for editing, including whether there's any merit in asking for uploading these tracks since they do not seem to be precise enough to be useful for any real purpose. We locally hardly ever use non-raw data (processed data) anymore due to loss of accuracy. The Bolt provided summary:
Murad: We use GPS traces (private and non-downloadable) generated by our drivers to improve the road network. For now, improvements include missing roads, one-way tags, road access, turn restrictions. The process includes detecting possible missing road candidates based on the GPS data we have → review the candidates using publicly available sources (such as OSC and Mapillary) → editing the map only if we're 100% sure the candidate is valid (same goes for one-way tags, road access and turn restrictions). Since we operate in Hungary, we reach to the local Bolt team when there's a doubt, and they provide with ground data in such cases.
The GPS tracks are collected from smartphones, and we run internal algorithms to detect possible candidates, and then we do manual editing based on the mentioned GPS candidates, satellite imagery, street imagery combined and never use just one source.
Bolt is fully compliant with GDPR. More about data collection and processing can be found here: https://bolt.eu/en/legal/privacy-for-drivers/
The result is that we monitor edits of Bolt and we may request DWG to block them if they keep ignoring changeset comments and questions. This is way more close to the facts than "YES". --grin ✎ 14:00, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
- Hi grin, thanks for this post. I'l address each of your concerns here:
Q. How can we contact you in case of problems
- A. At any instances where any of our edit is found incorrect, please drop a comment on the respective changeset. We have a mechanism to constantly monitor the feedback and suggestions received from the community through changeset comments. We would immediately acknowledge the receipt of the message, post which a thorough investigation would be performed. Based on our analysis, we would approach the community member for further clarification if required or correct the mistake and ensure the same is not repeated. At any instances where a changeset comment is not responded , please feel free to drop a message on the OSM id mentioned in our WIKI page (Bolt001).
Q. How do you plan to follow the local tagging scheme peculiarities (since it's not available in English)?
- A. Before we start any city we would approach the local community for help with a country specific or local tagging guidelines. Along with that we would also review the existence of guidelines in OSM WIKI. For translation, we would reach to our local Bolt operations team.
In parallel, we would also perform analysis on a city to understand the accuracy of existing data with respect to completeness and correctness - alignments, classification, tags, relations etc. We would refrain from making any minor alignment corrections in the view that the road would have created or aligned through local knowledge or survey. At any instance, we strongly feel classification, alignment and/or any tags are incorrect, we would refer to the OSM profile of the respective member, and connect with the active mappers through changeset comment to take suggestions before any changes are made.
Q. What do you plan to do in Hungary in the light that our large cities are pretty up to date already?
- A. During our initial review, should we find any city to be complete with no scope for adding any missing roads, existing data is correct with reference to alignment and all required tags and relations are built, we would not make any edits. With reference to Hungary - these are some enhancement opportunities we found and edited in Hungary. A couple of edits are mentioned below
- Changeset No - 100244101
- Mapper - Bolt005
- Edits Made - Changed DoT of residential segment from two way to one way
- Way Id - 844640771
- Changeset No - 99518303
- Mapper - Bolt005
- Edits Made - Changed classification of road from Unclassified to residential
- Way Id - 25707319
Q. Will you stop using satellite imagery to "correct" geometry based on local orthophotos or RTK based (sub-meter-accuracy) measurements, local survey/knowledge based edits?
A. We have made a decision to avoid making edits to geometry. It will be updated on our wiki page soon.
Q. What kind of problems do you plan to "fix"? Based on what measurements?
- A. At a high level below is the scope of edits our mappers perform while referring to OSM guidelines -
- Addition of missing roads
- Assign right classification to newly created road and /or correct for existing roads
- Assign direction of travel
- Validate existing Tags & Attributes
- Run Validation and fix all errors and warnings
- Add other attributes we work on
- Above edits would be done by our mappers following OSM guidelines referring to publicly available satellite and / or CAM imageries
- Along with that, when in doubt, and unavailability of CAM images or unclear satellite imagery, we would refer to our field operations team for local support
Q. Have Bolt Technology OÜ licensed and approved these edits for ODbL license?
- A. The data we use is our own and we do not use any third party data. All the edits made by us go to upstream OSM. Saying this, we fully comply with ODbL license requirements. Please, let us know if we are missing something.
The result is that we monitor edits of Bolt and we may request DWG to block them if they keep ignoring changeset comments and questions. This is way more close to the facts than "YES"
- Please provide any changeset comment we ignored and we'll have an investigation on how it happened. So far the last changeset comment that we received regarding edits in Hungary is this one and it is addressed accordingly.
- Regards, Murad from Bolt Map Production