User talk:Hedaja

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To me this is a duplication of the top_rope tag: top rope

   To belay from a fixed anchor point above the climb. Top-roping requires easy access to the top of the climb, often by means of a footpath or scrambling.

top_rope can be quite different. Some abseilpoints might be able to be used in that way though. In the region I am climbing at and where abseil_point is most used,top roping is forbidden in general as it damages the sandstone. As you also quoted top_rope requires access to the top of the climb. This is not the case for abseil_point. You often find them on one of the tall sandstone pillars. I wanted to add a picture but I need to take one first.

Ok a picture may be helpful for me to understand, because all examples of abseiling I could find on google assume one has access to the top of the cliff to be able to set up the anchors and all that (just like in top-rope). If that is the case then maybe this info should be under the Climbing styles? And use the existing "bolts" tag to specify how many. Since your new tag talks about "Does the route/area have fixed points" and the bolts tag: "Are there fixed anchors?". That is why to me if feels like data duplication.

Another thing, as you mentioned, the spot you are going to one is not allowed to climb, that means it should not be mapped under rock climbing. Maybe abseiling should have its own sports tags/category instead of forcing it onto rock climbing.

Sorry for the confusion. Climbing is allowed in general just not to do top rope climbing (and with lots of other strict rules). And abseil points are different from normal fixed bolts. Here are some pictures for context. This one shows one of these points meant for repelling yourself back down from the peak. They can usually only be reached if you climb the pillar and are only on the top. https://www.quackensturm.de/medien/galerie/image?view=image&format=raw&type=img&id=6153 https://natural-touring.de/wp-content/gallery/fotos-elbi-klettern/elbsandsteingebirge-klettern-10.jpg They are built in a way that they don't corrode as quickly and diameter of the metal is big enough that a rope doesn't get damaged when being pulled through it. Fixed bolts/rings on the other hand are meant to be used as temporary fix points for the lead climber with express sets (https://www.bergfreunde.de/basislager/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Straight-und-bent.jpg) and are very small diameter. Therefore one should never use a normal ring for abseiling because it might break the rope. Next time climbing I will take some pictures I can add to the wiki.

Also climbing:toprope seems only be used as an detail for a route/area while abseil_points can be separately mapped points. Which can be quite useful. Some peaks are pretty big and with lots of cracks and crevices making it hard to find the abseil point. For example. Here on the 'Dreimännerturm'(https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?editor=id&node=251874528#map=21/50.90108/14.07843) you have the summit log in the South and the abseil point is in the North.


Thanks for the clarification. In general a climbing route that is marked as top-rope means it has top access and a permanent anchor that does not require extra gear to set up. Something like this one: https://c7.alamy.com/comp/RX0WNF/rock-climbing-anchor-in-the-owens-river-gorge-with-mussy-hooks-RX0WNF.jpg or like this one: https://www.newriverclimbing.net/uploads/1/0/9/8/109883188/33_orig.jpg. In reality one can top-rope and abseil any route that has a fixed anchor at the top, provided that you bring the extra gear to set up an anchor, that is why they are not marked as top rope as you don't have the proper permanent anchor. Now for the "abseil_point" tag. As you mentioned, there are walls that you are not allowed to climb only abseil. That is why to me it feels like this doesn't fall under the "climbing" umbrella. I have done some small edits, see if they make sense to you. Basically you don't want the name of the tag to indicate what it is for. You should use the "node" wiki tag for that. I also made it a bit more generic I hope.

Basically a abseil point will be mapped as climbing:bolt=abseil and maybe climbing=bolt.