Talk:Key:ashtray

Existing Tag

Hello. There is already an existing waste=cigarettes which specifies a disposal point for ash. This does not need to be part of an existing disposal site such as a waste bin but can be freestanding according to the wiki page. What justifies splitting this tag out with a different convention? If anything, existing items with this tag should have a fixme to edit to the waste=cigarettes and we can edit the existing page to reflect possible mistakes. — GA Kevin (talk) 03:43, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

waste* is only applicable to POI handling waste, e.g. amenity=waste_basket and specifies what this amenity is used for. ashtray=* means that there is some object, e.g. amenity=bench or public_transport=platform that has a physical tray for ash installed on it. That's the same distinction we have between amenity=waste_basket and bin=*. --Mueschel (talk) 11:06, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

Bin also suffers from this debate in its talk pages and I, like others, think that convention should be deprecated. There is a trivial difference between if I place a waste basket in a park freestanding and if I place that same waste basket under a cover at a bus stop, but the tagging would be different on OSM. Ideally, you place ‘rubbish’ in a ‘bin’, same as you would a cigarette ash (not to be confused with ash as a waste product, such as those surrounding fire pits and grills in parks.) I’m also not entirely convinced it’s a clash of tags to say amenity=bench + waste=cigarettes to indicate the amenity is a bench but it also has a space for discarding cigarettes. — GA Kevin (talk) 13:33, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

waste* just classifies a type of waste, but it doesn't contain any information about what physical object is present. There could be a ashtray, a huge metal bin or even just a pile of cigarettes on the floor. Two different tags are needed because they describe two different things. --Mueschel (talk) 14:37, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

Well, I got an edit conflict with Mueschel above, who expressed my points more concisely. Still, let me add that I do agree with your interpretation that waste=cigarettes is usable both as a freestanding bin/container and as an extension of a waste bin — just to make sure we're on the same page.

To add to what Mueschel said, regarding the similarity between ashtray=* and bin=*, I think it's also relevant to keep in mind that ashtrays tend to be relatively small, so it would be even harder to map the ashtray as a separate element. --Waldyrious (talk) 11:24, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

containers for ash can vary in size but it would make sense to tag the object as waste=cigarettes regardless if the amenity is a waste basket (such as those with ash disposal on top,) benches (such as those with built in trays,) or even posts which can be freestanding. — GA Kevin (talk) 13:33, 12 January 2025 (UTC)

Well, I honestly don't agree that it makes sense to tag objects like benches or street lamps with waste=*. As Mueschel said above, this tag describes the type of trash that a map element takes/contains, but in the case of a bench for example, the bench itself is not a waste container, so what feels intuitive to me is the tagging of an additional object connected to it — be it a bin, an ashtray, etc. I see this distinction as similar to saying that a road has lanes (an inherent property of the road itself) vs. sidewalk (an accessory element that can be, and often is, mapped separately). --Waldyrious (talk) 09:12, 15 January 2025 (UTC)