Proposal talk:ElectricBicycles

A bicycle rental station that has only electric bicycles

I agree very well with your proposal, but for adding electric_bicycle=* as an access-key, I do not really like adding electric_bicycle=only for electric-bicycle-rental stations then. I don't know whether that is really an argument, but "only" it not a real access value (I know it's not about "access" for rental stations, but about "rental"), but when electric_bicycle=* should be an access-key there should be only access-values possible for it, for reserving/holding consistency. Otherwise we are mixing something here. Even it might be a bit laborious, my suggestion for a bicycle rental station that has only electric bicycles would be bicycle=no and electric_bicycle=yes.

Addition: Hmm, okay, the other options would have to get very well-documented then.

• amenity=bicycle_rental + electric_bicycle=yes would be a rental station then, which rents also electric bicycles, but not only. bicycle=yes should be implicit.
• amenity=bicycle_rental + electric_bicycle=no would be a rental station then, which rents no electric bicycles at all, but non-electric ones (I think this tagging variant is very clear). bicycle=yes should be implicit. --Lukas458 (talk) 14:55, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

I fully understand your point. When used as access tag, only the usual values should be used (yes|no|private|destination|...).

Using 'only' as value is rather wide-spread on other tags as the third option along yes and no. While most of them are not access tags (notably 'organic' or 'second_hand' on shops, 7000 uses each), but there are also some inherited access tags. For example there are 90 "hgv=only", mostly on amenity=fuel, amenity=car_wash or amenity=parking. These aren't real access keys either, but like in the bicycle_rental example state "hgv are served here" or "this is for hgv". --Mueschel (talk) 15:29, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Yes, that's true. I thought whether maybe something like service:bicycle:rental=yes/no (for non-electric bicycles) together with service:electric_bicycle:rental=yes/no/[only?] would be a compromise, but service:bicycle:rental=yes/no is at the moment only used for shop=bicycle, because for amenity=bicycle_rental we don't need it, obviously. Maybe we could "allow" service:electric_bicycle:rental=yes/no/only for amenity=bicycle_rental, for not mixing "only" with the proposed access-key. The advantage would be, that we do not need electric_bicycle=* for bicycle-rental-stations at all then, and so no comflicts can appear. Also electric_bicycle:rental=yes/no/only would reach, but service:electric_bicycle:rental=yes/no/only fits into how the key for "bicycles" in general is, and service:electric_bicycle:rental=yes/no/only could be used for both then, shops and rental stations as well.--Lukas458 (talk) 16:57, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

That would be an option. I'd like to keep this proposal simple and don't introduce too many tags right away. I see the proposals purpose mostly in defining the two keywords. These keywords (if accepted) can then be used to build new tags like your suggested service:electric_bicycle:rental=* and many others. --Mueschel (talk) 09:07, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

charging station for solely bicycles

amenity=charging_station + bicycle=yes

I would suggest at least "amenity=charging_station + bicycle=only" (though I still dislike idea of additional tag changing meaning from "charging station for cars" to "charging station for bicycles"). Or maybe use a different example? Mateusz Konieczny (talk) 08:53, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

Was "amenity=charging_station" ever a car-only tag? Currently 6% have a bicycle=yes tag and 4% have a scooter=* tag (40% with car or motorcar tag). So I'd call this an established tagging. Introducing a new tagging scheme for charging stations is definitely out of the scope of this proposal.

I'm not decided whether we should use 'bicycle=yes' (and add some car=no tag) or use 'bicycle=only'. See also the comment by Lukas458 above. --Mueschel (talk) 09:07, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

Actually, in the given example cars are already excluded by the available sockets - there are so many sockets and authentication cards in the wild that is doesn't make sense to just drive to the next amenity=charging_station without checking the additional tags. --Mueschel (talk) 09:12, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

Both pedelecs and S-pedelecs are "Electrical Bicycles"

Consulting EN Wikipedia I got confirmation of my understanding that both pedelecs and S-pedelecs are Electrical Bicycles. Hence "Electric Bicycles" as a sub-category of "Electrical Bicycles" is not a good choice. Why not use "pedelec" for pedelecs ? --voschix (talk) 14:08, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

Yes, 'pedelec' is the correct technical term. Several people raised their concern about this, because the term is not really widespread (far less than the more specific 'speed pedelec') and mostly understood by people who somehow relate to bicycles. I would rather not propose the term 'pedelec' given that there is some kind of language barrier. On the other hand, speed pedelec look like bicycles with an electric motor, but are not treated like bicycles by any law I know. --Mueschel (talk) 14:27, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

In France we also make the difference betwenn VAE (vélo à assistance électrique, <=250 W, <=25 km/h) i.e. e-bike and speedelec (> 250 W, >25 km/h, <=45 km/h). See https://www.cyclable.com/speedelec-vs-velo-electrique/ for a European wide comparison (for France some restrictions for speedelec: minimal age 14 years, permit, no usage of cycleways). The European Cyclists Federation is trying to homogeneize the term for the faster vehicles to speedelec. Then speedelec, without any thing related to pedelec, would be an better term.

The European directive makes the difference between power assisted bicycles and light electric mopeds the same way (250 W, 25 km/h). --Nospam2005 (talk) 12:37, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Where does this term come from? It seems to be a purely French term, there are very few results on Google and it's not mentioned in the Wikipedia despite one article in French ("appelée parfois « Speedelec »") --Mueschel (talk) 13:29, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Never heard neither that nor (speed) pedelec before your proposal either. Pedelec seems to be mainly used in BE/DE/NL. We are supposed to use British terms. E-bike is more common (with the problem that we don't want to refer to bikes). In EU directive they speak about "low-performance mopeds, i.e. mopeds with pedals, with an auxiliary engine of power not exceeding 1 kW and a maximum design speed not exceeding 25 km/h.". FR: cyclomoteurs munis de pédales, DE: Kleinkrafträder mit niedriger Leistung.

As I said speedelec is the term that the European Cyclists Federation is trying to use EU-wide. Source: the quoted article. --Nospam2005 (talk) 19:28, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

As it seems, they are the only ones and not particularly successful up to now. --Mueschel (talk) 12:46, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

deprecation of undocumented tags with differing spelling

I suggest you remove this sentence This proposal deprecates other, undocumented spellings or versions of these tags. because it doesn’t make sense to deprecate undefined tags that you do not list explicitly. Too vague —Dieterdreist (talk) 08:31, 24 May 2020 (UTC)