Proposal talk:Social facility=equine assisted centre

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therapy as minor part of equestrian center

I know of some hippotherapists (in Austria) practising in regular stables / horse riding centers. There are one or two horses educated and used for therapy next to way more "regular horses" used for riding.

It seems a bit weird to tag the whole thing as social facility. Could equine_assisted_therapy=yes fit better in this case? Nielkrokodil (talk) 21:25, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

Good question. The main focus for this tag is for centers dedicated to providing equine-assisted activities to certain communities. These are non-profit organizations or charities staffed with professionals and volunteers that don't fall under the horse riding centers category. For individual barns or horse riding centers offering EAT through individual hippotherapists how would one know or track these practitioners to map them? I'm open to suggestions, but I'm trying to focus on the dedicated facilities first. Appreciate the input and any suggestions would be welcome for the secondary proposal for individual barns offering EAT.
Codesurfer (talk) 00:37, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
Hi Nielkrokodil. I've discovered that what you describe is considered to be a concierge therapy service. Practitioners that may travel to particular barns to provide social services. This proposal does not cover concierge therapy services by individuals or individual barns offering concierge therapy services.

Thank you for the clarification. When this proposal gets accepted we could think of a similar tagging for those services as property of the barn.

Yes, I would love to collaborate with others perhaps over the summer. It's a bit of a brain-teaser for me at this point.

--Codesurfer (talk) 02:03, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

I see this situation similar to amenity=bench when the bench is the main feature and bench=yes as property of a highway=bus_stop.

For a patient looking for therapy locations both centers and concierge services are of interest. Nielkrokodil (talk) 17:46, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Previous discussions

Any conclusions on not using animal-assisted therapy + subtagging horse ?
—— Kovposch (talk) 09:23, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Hi, yes in the previous proposal. Using animal-assisted would be more broad but I'm not sure if there are large enough numbers of centers with animals other than horses to tag in OSM. I'm considering this tag as similar to a group home or nursing home that offers various activities including therapy. Focusing on the facility as a social facility which may have therapy or may not have therapy activities (regular horsemanship activities like grooming or reading to a horse) is more inclusive to capture everything that an equine-assisted centre/center may offer.
--Codesurfer (talk) 01:42, 14 March 2024 (UTC)


Did you consider using social_facility=equine_assisted_therapy instead of social_facility=equine_assisted_centre? Nielkrokodil (talk) 16:50, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Hi, yes, some centres/centers may have therapy services or may have regular horsemanship activities like grooming or reading to a horse. I believe that using centre/center is more inclusive to capture everything that an equine-assisted centre/center may offer. I want this to be as broad as possible as the types of services may expand in the future.
--Codesurfer (talk) 01:44, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
But the proposal explains (see e.g. section "Community Need for the Proposed Tag") that it is about "mapping EAT facilities" (and not about equine-assisted agriculture, forestry, transportation etc.). But a therapy is no facility, and "equine_assisted_therapy_centre" is too long; I don't know how to solve this. BTW, (for) what is "reading to a horse"? --Hufkratzer (talk) 21:46, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
Hi, yes agree that other naming options would be quite long and equine-assisted centre was the shortest option, thus far.
Reading to a horse is a way for children who have learning disabilities (e.g., dyslexia) to sit in front of a horse and practice reading out loud to the horse to gain confidence without judgement from classmates. So, it is different from the activities related to more well-known physical and mental therapies with horses. This is relatively new within the EAT community. I couldn't find a European version of this, but here is a video link (start at 0:43) that describes the activity in the US. --Codesurfer (talk) 12:12, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

Is something like equine-assisted therapy? --Hufkratzer (talk) 14:49, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

This is another one of the activities that is relatively new in the community and falls under equine-assisted learning (EAL) which focuses on self-regulation and problem solving skills. I think that I may edit the proposal description to tease out the EAT and other equine-services to make that distinction more clear under the more broad equine-assisted center. I'll work on that over the next week or so. Thanks for sharing that one. --Codesurfer (talk) 01:58, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
In section Categories it is not under EAL. Maybe better not rely on Wikipedia too much; the English page has a warning "The neutrality of this article is disputed", the page seems to be under development and will probably change, see talk page, e.g.  Not Every Activity Is A Therapy .... If I switch to German I get a text about  Hippotherapie. A link to Wikipedia is ok of course. --Hufkratzer (talk) 12:25, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
I've revamped the proposal and have included more clarity on equine-assisted services and the subcategories which should cover most if not all of the activities. Please see the section What are Equine-Assisted Services?
--Codesurfer (talk) 22:58, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

Only on nodes?

Secction How to Map explains that they shall only be mapped on nodes and not on areas. This is very unusual. Allowing areas wouldn't harm. --Hufkratzer (talk) 21:51, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

I have the disclaimer guidance saying mapping as an area would require detailed local knowledge of a facility's boundaries. Because these facilities are located within residential areas or next to agricultural areas with no clear boundaries, there might be errors in drawing boundaries. I'm not opposed to it, but I don't want the facilities to have incorrectly rendered boundaries perhaps annoying neighbors. --Codesurfer (talk) 12:19, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
Hufkratzer, I've added some more specificity on mapping as a node and area in How to Map
Map as a node if you do not have detailed knowledge of the facility's boundary.
Map as an area if you have detailed local knowledge of a facility's boundary.
Thanks --Codesurfer (talk) 00:00, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

Consideration of health_facility:type=therapy

A comment from SK53 on Mastodon suggested using health_facility:type=therapy and using a more generic base tag with a specific modality (music, art...).

I've reviewed the Key:health_facility:type for consideration.
  • This is a proposed tag that describes a medical facility, which are usually one or more localities such as buildings, groups of buildings or parts of a building.
  • It also requires the use of Key:medical system:* also a proposed tag describing a namespace for the medical system of a health care related facility, person, service, or amenity.

Neither of those keys would apply to an equine-assisted centre/center which is not a medical facility nor a medical provider. These facilities (which would not qualify as a Riding centre / Riding stables) provide a social service to the community including a broad range of services outside of therapy and healthcare. For example:

  • equine-assisted services (EAS) - includes interactive vaulting, therapeutic carriage driving, and other horse-related activities (e.g. grooming and stable management, reading to a horse, horsemanship, and team building).

Using Tag:amenity=social_facility would be analogous to using Tag:social_facility=nursing_home or Tag:social_facility=group_home. Each provides a range of services (including social and medical services) to their clients.

I appreciate the review and I've revamped the proposal to focus more on the facility and provided more clarity on the types of equine-assisted services offered.

--Codesurfer (talk) 22:47, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
This is the same argumentation, as if health_facility:type=hospital can't be used on a hospital, as it also has a helipad, which is not inside of a building.
How does this special form of psychotherapy not belonging to the western medical system, so you have a problem with adding medical_system:western=yes?
These facilities could be tagged like this: medical_system:western=yes + health_facility:type=therapy + health_specialty:psychotherapy=yes + health_specialty:animal_assisted_psychotherapy=yes + health_specialty:equine_assisted_psychotherapy=yes + health_specialty:physiotherapy=yes + health_specialty:hippotherapy=yes

Fabi2 (talk) 19:14, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments. These facilities are not medical facilities and they are not health care facilities. They are non-profit organizations or private foundations that provide a social service to the community at a barn with stables using volunteers who are not medically trained.
But you call it therapies, why should it then not be medical related? If theses facilities don't reach the level common expected for these therapies, you can tag them with health_specialty:*=partial. The level of the provided services are more important as the formal qualification/training of the staff. We had a formal additional training for physicians in Germany for prescribing water and sugar. And many traditional physicians may never had a formal training. --Fabi2 (talk) 12:10, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
Fabi2 I've added a new section referencing how the U.S. Equestrian Federation defines equine-assisted centers. Please see the new section Community Outreach Organizations

How would your proposed tags incorporate activities at facilities that are not therapy related? Many facilities offer vaulting, carriage driving, and other horse-related activities (e.g. grooming and stable management, reading to a horse, horsemanship, and team building) that are not considered as therapy or psychotherapy. These types of equine-assisted services do not fit within the therapy or medical category.

If they not fit into the wider definition of animal assisted psychotherapy, which is based on the work with the animals in some kind, to improve your metal well-being, activities such as vaulting and carriage driving, will be better added as service describing tags (e.g. service:carriage_driving=yes) to laisure=horse_riding. These facilities seems to provide basically different horse-related services, including some additional therapeutic activities. So the horse-related services should be (better) tagged with your proposal.--Fabi2 (talk) 12:10, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
Fabi2 I've added a new section referencing how the U.S. Equestrian Federation defines equine-assisted centers. They consider the equine-assisted centres/centers as community outreach organizations (not as medical providers) offering many types of services (e.g., educational, social, and therapeutic).The proposed tag would recognize this special designation. Please see the new section Community Outreach Organizations
I don't understand your example of the hospital and helipad (as I would tag it as a hospital). This proposal's focus is on mapping the facility and having a broad enough tag to include all types of equine-assisted activities. How is tagging this facility different from using Tag:social_facility=nursing_home or Tag:social_facility=group_home both which provide social and limited medical services for a specific community at a particular facility? According to the Wiki social facilities can provide social as well as medical services.
--Codesurfer (talk) 00:12, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

"social" facility is a good key for everything

What is a "social" facility? Everything which has to do with social interaction of human beings, such as shops, schools, health care, welfare, sport clubs, ...

welfare=* where the better tag for most of the facilities under social_facility=*.

Is the intention of the proposal to describe the medical services as a special type of psychotherapy / physiotherapy and so belonging to the western medical system or the horse infrastructure (leisure=horse_riding), which may be used also medical? Fabi2 (talk) 18:42, 8 April 2024 (UTC)